*OFFICIAL* Offseason Rumors, Signings, and Shenanigans

[zabavka]

Can't believe 31 GMs let Justyn Ross go to KC. I understand being scared with his spinal cord surgery, but he was a 1st round talent before that. Nobody could be bothered to spend a 6th or 7th on this dude? Gonna regret it across the league.

All the message board geniuses assured us Ross wasn't worth the risk even though he is choosing to put his health and safety at risk to play the game he loves.

I mean who wants a guy like that on their team.

 

[remydat]

This is idiotic.

NOBODY is claiming we knew IN ADVANCE that they were adding massive talent! You are responding to something nobody has said or thought.

The SIMPLE point is this: They added two HOF players and a WR who may yet get into the HOF, and at the very least, was a massive talent.

At no time did I or anyone else say we all knew prior to the first snap that Kurt Warner would be MVP of the league.

But if you actually think a team adding Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk and Tory Holt did NOT add a huge amount of talent, you're insane.

The discussion is whether what they added was a lot of talent. It is not about what someone thought or knew before hand.

And for the record, I was in St. Louis when it happened. I am quite familiar with how bad the Rams were prior to that and what a shock it was for them to have that success. Unless of course we aren't considering winning the Super Bowl a success, since we didn't predict it beforehand.

Sit this one out. Your word salad was nonsensical.

No you are wrong. The poster was comparing a scenario where he knows in hindsight that Warner was a massive talent to the Bears in 2022 where we dont know yet if anyone is secretly a massive talent because the games havent been played.

So it is an unfair comparison which is what people are saying. @whonker expressly asked about teams that had a similar infusion of talent like the Bears that succeeded. He was given the Rams to which he objected in part because of Warner. But he cant object because of Warner because no one knew Warner was a stud. So if you want to compare to the Bears you can only compare to players we knew were studs at the time which is just Marshall Faulk.

 

[bears51/40]

They were massively talented. Whether someone, no one, or everyone knew that before the acquisition does not change the fact that adding these three was the very definition of massive talent infusion.

Want to call it a “surprise massive talent infusion “? Fine. But it was a massive talent infusion nonetheless.

There is no denying that adding these three was exactly that.

Done. We’re reaching Remy territory.

This whole Rams team was massively talented. What I see is a gradual infusion of talent. That team already had HOF talent on it in Isaac Bruce and Orlando Pace, and one of the better slots in Az-Zahir Hakim. Not saying Faulk, Holt, and Warner did not have massive talent, just that they were the final pieces of the puzzle. Add in Mike Martz's offense and you have the perfect marriage of scheme and talent. This does not even include the All-Pro and Pro Bowl talent on defense.

 

[remydat]

So you agree it was eventually proven to be an infusion of talent. So then how can you credit the “coaching scheme change” for the improvement instead of crediting the improvement to the “eventually proven talent upgrade” that became obvious at the end of the year? That’s what the whole original discussion was about, that it was ultimately predominantly that added talent (whether expected or unexpected) that led to the improvement in record in hindsight rather than the coaching.

And even if you completely take the unexpected out of the discussion, just adding an MVP level talent like Faulk, in and of itself I would consider a significant talent upgrade. If we add davante adams or prime Adrian Peterson to the bears this year, I think most people around the league would say we’ve upgraded our offense significantly no matter how good the other unknowns on our offense are.

See my post above in creating a hypothetical situation that is similar to those “unexpected talents” that were the rams. I agree with TL1961 here.

Let’s agree to disagree on the rams example, but I think each side has dug in and not going to budge at this point, and we’re really just arguing semantics at this point.

Because Warner was a nobody before the Rams so it is the Rams who get credit for developing him namely Martz and his scheme.

There is no evidence Warner would have become who he became without Martz. And you cant use lesser success later in Zona because that was after he already became a star due to Martz.

You are trying to say Martz and his scheme had no roll in turning a bag boy into an NFL MVP when no one else swa what Martz saw.

 

[remydat]

All the message board geniuses assured us Ross wasn't worth the risk even though he is choosing to put his health and safety at risk to play the game he loves.

I mean who wants a guy like that on their team.

I dont want a guy that can be paralyzed or die. Sometimes you have to save people from themselves.

 

[SpinachTeeth]

Because Warner was a nobody before the Rams so it is the Rams who get credit for developing him namely Martz and his scheme.

There is no evidence Warner would have become who he became without Martz. And you cant use lesser success later in Zona because that was after he already became a star due to Martz.

That would only make sense if Warner already played and sucked before that season, and then Martz made him into a star. He didn’t play the year before. Martz year was his first opportunity. If he started the previous year he may have been great too. And you can’t just throw out the later Arizona success bc we’re specifically talking about scheme here (my original question was about scheme, we are not talking about player development so let’s not move the goalposts). Different scheme, same success, bc the talent is there.

Same thing as the age old debate between Tom Brady and Bellicik. Tom also didn’t play his first year and exploded into a hall of fame career. Were the patriots good because of Bellicik’s scheme or Tom Brady’s massive goat talent? I think we all saw that bellicik’s record immediately before and after Brady were much worse. I have no doubt that if Brady started in 2000 for the patriots or Warner started in 1998 for the Rams, those teams would have significant better records no matter who the coach/scheme are. Talent is talent.

 

[SpinachTeeth]

I dont want a guy that can be paralyzed or die. Sometimes you have to save people from themselves.

100% agree with this. The Bulls with eddy curry was another example when he refused his genetic testing. It’s a huge danger and I think the chiefs are being irresponsible here.

 

[remydat]

That would only make sense if Warner already played and sucked before that season, and then Martz made him into a star. He didn’t play the year before. Martz year was his first opportunity. If he started the previous year he may have been great too. And you can’t just throw out the later Arizona success bc we’re specifically talking about scheme here (my original question was about scheme, we are not talking about player development so let’s not move the goalposts). Different scheme, same success, bc the talent is there.

Same thing as the age old debate between Tom Brady and Bellicik. Tom also didn’t play his first year and exploded into a hall of fame career. Were the patriots good because of Bellicik’s scheme or Tom Brady’s massive goat talent? I think we all saw that bellicik’s record immediately before and after Brady were much worse. I have no doubt that if Brady started in 2000 for the patriots or Warner started in 1998 for the Rams, those teams would have significant better records no matter who the coach/scheme are. Talent is talent.

Umm it wasnt Warner's first year. He was not a rookie. He went undrafted in 1994 and was signed by the Pack who cut him. The same Pack with a long record of developing QBs. At the time, Holmgren was coach, Mariucci was QB coach and Andy Reid was an O assistant. None of them thought he was good enough. No one else in the NFL wanted him and he spent 4 years bagging groceries and playing in the IFL and NFL Europe.

So Martz 100% gets the credit for turning him into something. He was basically banished from the NFL for 4 years before the Rams came calling. He didnt play in the NFL before 99 because no one outside of Martz thought he was good enough.

 

[rawdawg]

100% agree with this. The Bulls with eddy curry was another example when he refused his genetic testing. It’s a huge danger and I think the chiefs are being irresponsible here.

Wait. You don't think doctors have cleared this dude to play? He played a full season of college ball, for free, last year. Do you think he and the Chiefs are acting on their own personal agendas and playing against doctor's recommendations or something?

 

[remydat]

Wait. You don't think doctors have cleared this dude to play? He played a full season of college ball, for free, last year. Do you think he and the Chiefs are acting on their own personal agendas and playing against doctor's recommendations or something?

If he is allegedly a 1st round talent then it is clear the doctors for 31 teams said no. So you have 31 teams and their doctors vs Clemson and Cheifs doctors. Bears are on the side of the majority. Doesnt make them right but let's not pretend the Chiefs are clearly right here.

 

[Les Grossman]

All the message board geniuses assured us Ross wasn't worth the risk even though he is choosing to put his health and safety at risk to play the game he loves.

I mean who wants a guy like that on their team.

You mean an idiot? If he truly is such a health risk, football is simply not remotely worth it.

 

[SpinachTeeth]

Umm it wasnt Warner's first year. He was not a rookie. He went undrafted in 1994 and was signed by the Pack who cut him. The same Pack with a long record of developing QBs. At the time, Holmgren was coach, Mariucci was QB coach and Andy Reid was an O assistant. None of them thought he was good enough. No one else in the NFL wanted him and he spent 4 years bagging groceries and playing in the IFL and NFL Europe.

So Martz 100% gets the credit for turning him into something. He was basically banished from the NFL for 4 years before the Rams came calling. He didnt play in the NFL before 99 because no one outside of Martz thought he was good enough.

I’ll disagree on that. Just bc you haven’t had the opportunity to start the first year or few years of your career doesn’t mean you won’t blow it up as soon as you get an opportunity. (Romo, Mahomes, Rodgers). NFL talent evaluators as we all know can be a crapshoot especially at QB. It’s why Brady went in the 6th round and Romo held for the kicker. Nobody thought they were any good until the first year they were given an opportunity.

But let’s even say I give you that and take Warner out of the equation. The addition of MVP level Marshall Faulk by itself is enough to say significant talent infusion. It’s like adding Davante or Brandon Marshall to this bears team.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Wait. You don't think doctors have cleared this dude to play? He played a full season of college ball, for free, last year. Do you think he and the Chiefs are acting on their own personal agendas and playing against doctor's recommendations or something?

I read somewhere (may be bullshit) that he wasn't cleared by 29 of 32 teams.

EDIT: It was 4 teams -
Chiefs site

 

[SpinachTeeth]

Wait. You don't think doctors have cleared this dude to play? He played a full season of college ball, for free, last year. Do you think he and the Chiefs are acting on their own personal agendas and playing against doctor's recommendations or something?

I wouldn’t put it past a pro team. Again the eddy curry example. Reports were that doctors clearly recommended against playing until he got a genetic test. The bulls thus offered him 500k a year for the rest of his life to just sit at home and not playing (trying to be a responsible team). Then the knicks signed him and played him anyway.

Thankfully nothing bad happened to Eddy, but the risk was still there.

 

[zabavka]

You mean an idiot? If he truly is such a health risk, football is simply not remotely worth it.

Yeah I mean the Chiefs huh?

What a clueless and idiotic team, they'll never win anything, not like our beloved Bears

 

[msadows]

Yeah I mean the Chiefs huh?

What a clueless and idiotic team, they'll never win anything, not like our beloved Bears

Chiefs lucked into mahomes, otherwise theyd basically be the bears

They had 1 playoff win in 25 years pre-mahomes. Thats just as bad as the burrs.

 

[DrGonzo]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529540890766753792

Is it just me or does he look like he has bulked up some?

 

[msadows]

Is it just me or does he look like he has bulked up some?

He's probably going thru male menopause due to his heavy soy diet.

 

[Dejo]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529825962392698880

 

[remydat]

I’ll disagree on that. Just bc you haven’t had the opportunity to start the first year or few years of your career doesn’t mean you won’t blow it up as soon as you get an opportunity. (Romo, Mahomes, Rodgers). NFL talent evaluators as we all know can be a crapshoot especially at QB. It’s why Brady went in the 6th round and Romo held for the kicker. Nobody thought they were any good until the first year they were given an opportunity.

But let’s even say I give you that and take Warner out of the equation. The addition of MVP level Marshall Faulk by itself is enough to say significant talent infusion. It’s like adding Davante or Brandon Marshall to this bears team.

Mahomes and Rodgers were first round picks. No one questioned they had talent. Romo made an NFL team out of college. It is not that Warner didnt get a chance. He was not in the NFL for 4 years. So for 4 years no one felt he should be on an NFL roster.

Faulk alone would ot have made the Rams a Super Bowl team. It is obvious Warner is what allowed them to take that next step.