Cubs offseason needs/ Talk

[Raskolnikov]

Also..to Knoxville’s point…if the shift is gone The White Sox and Cubs are both down lefties at the wrong time as their value will sky rocket again.

Both pitchers and hitters, as pitch angle will again take supremacy over defensive positioning.

 

[TL1961]

Yeah I don't think so.... If someone comes here they will be sold on us winning next year. Not what position they play. Plus we still have a question mark at second base, so the SS we sign will get time at SS, and Hoerner can play second. Signing a SS just means adding another body that can play 3 positions in the infield.

Are you suggesting the Cubs are gonna be so strong and such an attractive destination for a free agent shortstop that they will be willing to leave the position they like to play because the Cubs are such heavy favorites to win at all?

Where did the Dodgers and the braves in the Yankees and the Astros go in this scenario?

It’s very possible you can get one of the free-agent short stops to agree to play third base but let’s not act like it’s something they don’t think about or care about.

Essentially you’re asking a guy who has enough talent that he’s worth going after with big bucks to set his ego aside in favor of Nico Hoerner.

That’s just a little easier said than done let’s not act like it’s a slam dunk.

I find it far more likely they sign a short stop to play shortstop and move Nico to second and have a really strong middle infield then getting a shortstop to agree to move to third base long before the end of their career.

 

[CSF77]

So Correa is going to opt out. Well we might have a interesting off season.

 

[Diehardfan]

Are you suggesting the Cubs are gonna be so strong and such an attractive destination for a free agent shortstop that they will be willing to leave the position they like to play because the Cubs are such heavy favorites to win at all?

Where did the Dodgers and the braves in the Yankees and the Astros go in this scenario?

It’s very possible you can get one of the free-agent short stops to agree to play third base but let’s not act like it’s something they don’t think about or care about.

Essentially you’re asking a guy who has enough talent that he’s worth going after with big bucks to set his ego aside in favor of Nico Hoerner.

That’s just a little easier said than done let’s not act like it’s a slam dunk.

I find it far more likely they sign a short stop to play shortstop and move Nico to second and have a really strong middle infield then getting a shortstop to agree to move to third base long before the end of their career.

Everything is negotiable.

 

[SilenceS]

So Correa is going to opt out. Well we might have a interesting off season.

Its a bunch of players opting out.

DeGrom
Verlander
Rodon
Correa

Couple of other nice names that could. Its a fine off season to be aggressive.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

Here is how the new SS pans out:


Wisdom/SS at SS/Hoerner
SS at 3b/Hoerner/Madrigal

You can do this all year long based on matchups. Throw Morel in there once in a while. Ideally I want Turner as he can lead off.

In a situation where Mervis and Canario come up to provide power, then we can move on from Wisdom, that is when Turner can move moer permanently to 3b, and it would extend his career.

 

[knoxville7]

Here is how the new SS pans out:


Wisdom/SS at SS/Hoerner
SS at 3b/Hoerner/Madrigal

You can do this all year long based on matchups. Throw Morel in there once in a while. Ideally I want Turner as he can lead off.

In a situation where Mervis and Canario come up to provide power, then we can move on from Wisdom, that is when Turner can move moer permanently to 3b, and it would extend his career.

I think you misworded it a bit, but I think I get what you’re putting down…and I 100% agree with it

Turner is the cat the cubs should target. He is a lead off hitter with some pop and base running. Cubs haven’t had it since they won the WS.

Whether it’s Turner at SS and Hoerner at 2B or vice versa. That’s the kind of talent you want at those up the middle spots.

As Turner ages he settles in at either 3B or 2B and Hoerner is the everyday SS.

Corner IF spots will still be worrisome next year. That’s where I could see the cubs resigning Contreras potentially to play first base. He’s serviceable defensively there and his bat can play there as well. He seems to be pretty well liked in the clubhouse, and having a 3rd guy on the roster that can catch in a pinch doesn’t hurt either.

3B next year you let wisdom, bote, and madrigal battle it out for playing time aside from spelling the starters at other spots.

OF you got Happ and Suzuki in the corners with Morel/Davis playing CF

 

[Diehardfan]

I think you misworded it a bit, but I think I get what you’re putting down…and I 100% agree with it

Turner is the cat the cubs should target. He is a lead off hitter with some pop and base running. Cubs haven’t had it since they won the WS.

Whether it’s Turner at SS and Hoerner at 2B or vice versa. That’s the kind of talent you want at those up the middle spots.

As Turner ages he settles in at either 3B or 2B and Hoerner is the everyday SS.

Corner IF spots will still be worrisome next year. That’s where I could see the cubs resigning Contreras potentially to play first base. He’s serviceable defensively there and his bat can play there as well. He seems to be pretty well liked in the clubhouse, and having a 3rd guy on the roster that can catch in a pinch doesn’t hurt either.

3B next year you let wisdom, bote, and madrigal battle it out for playing time aside from spelling the starters at other spots.

OF you got Happ and Suzuki in the corners with Morel/Davis playing CF

Uuuugghhh......I would really like to move on from Bote and Wisdom. If not, the only thing I want them battling for is the best seat on the bench.

 

[Diehardfan]

Its a bunch of players opting out.

DeGrom
Verlander
Rodon
Correa

Couple of other nice names that could. Its a fine off season to be aggressive.

Frankly, the only one on that list I'd be interested in is.....believe it or not.....Rodon. Not only will he be the most affordable but he actually proved me and others here wrong by miraculously going a whole year uninjured. The other three will be way, way over priced.

 

[SilenceS]

Frankly, the only one on that list I'd be interested in is.....believe it or not.....Rodon. Not only will he be the most affordable but he actually proved me and others here wrong by miraculously going a whole year uninjured. The other three will be way, way over priced.

They will def be high priced but in DeGrom and Verlander I see shorter term deals with big annually. Could be worth a look, but Rodon would be the Cubs preferred target IMO.

 

[Diehardfan]

They will def be high priced but in DeGrom and Verlander I see shorter term deals with big annually. Could be worth a look, but Rodon would be the Cubs preferred target IMO.

Another reason I like Rodon at this point is that...at 30 and with all the time he missed rehabbing injuries, there still should a lot of thread on the tires for him.

 

[CSF77]

I think you misworded it a bit, but I think I get what you’re putting down…and I 100% agree with it

Turner is the cat the cubs should target. He is a lead off hitter with some pop and base running. Cubs haven’t had it since they won the WS.

Whether it’s Turner at SS and Hoerner at 2B or vice versa. That’s the kind of talent you want at those up the middle spots.

As Turner ages he settles in at either 3B or 2B and Hoerner is the everyday SS.

Corner IF spots will still be worrisome next year. That’s where I could see the cubs resigning Contreras potentially to play first base. He’s serviceable defensively there and his bat can play there as well. He seems to be pretty well liked in the clubhouse, and having a 3rd guy on the roster that can catch in a pinch doesn’t hurt either.

3B next year you let wisdom, bote, and madrigal battle it out for playing time aside from spelling the starters at other spots.

OF you got Happ and Suzuki in the corners with Morel/Davis playing CF

PCA projects as a lead off also. Turner might be a better 2B than a SS or 3B.

So I expect PCA at AA next year and finishing up at Iowa. Happ is going to get the same treatment Contreras got. There is the door and thanks for the extra pick.

Jed tends to have a plan of action and he is going to be focusing on youth and then adding established at areas that the system has no answer.

My take away from all of this is yet again 3B.

1B they have a projectile bat in Iowa.

2B has been injured but is highly though of when healthy. I do t think Jed is ready to give up yet at 2B. He also has Morel who looked solid at 2B. So to me any down time just adds PA's to Morel.

SS. yet again. GG quality 4 fWAR production. Solid player to build around

3B. Morel performed better up the middle. 3B is more of a flex spot for him vs a stable spot. If they are waiting for PCA in 24 then Wisdom is fine and hopefully they can swing a deal mid season for a 3B.

So I really would be fine with status que right now. I don't see the right piece in the board. The Cubs have 1 great piece a year out and a TOR Lefty at Iowa.

So ya know I'm good with rentals and get busy in 24.

 

[TL1961]

I agree that Trea Turner should be the #1 target.

He and Hoerner up the middle would be a really nice combo.

A lot of people want to move on from Wisdom at 3rd and I understand that, but if it comes down to him or Madrigal, I prefer Wisdom (reluctantly). But they just traded for Madrigal in '21 so it's unlikely he's gone.

A few people have referred to Turner moving to 3rd "as he gets older" but he's going to be 30 years old next year, not 36, and is a fast player. He's got a lot of years ahead of him before he's being moved to 3rd due to age.

At least we have options. I hope they spend as they should - yet wisely - but even the 4th best SS would be a plus player to add.

I would really like to see them add veteran pitching, but unfortunately many of the choices are 5 years past where we'd really like them to be.

 

[TL1961]

PCA projects as a lead off also. Turner might be a better 2B than a SS or 3B.

So I expect PCA at AA next year and finishing up at Iowa. Happ is going to get the same treatment Contreras got. There is the door and thanks for the extra pick.

Jed tends to have a plan of action and he is going to be focusing on youth and then adding established at areas that the system has no answer.

My take away from all of this is yet again 3B.

1B they have a projectile bat in Iowa.

2B has been injured but is highly though of when healthy. I do t think Jed is ready to give up yet at 2B. He also has Morel who looked solid at 2B. So to me any down time just adds PA's to Morel.

SS. yet again. GG quality 4 fWAR production. Solid player to build around

3B. Morel performed better up the middle. 3B is more of a flex spot for him vs a stable spot. If they are waiting for PCA in 24 then Wisdom is fine and hopefully they can swing a deal mid season for a 3B.

So I really would be fine with status que right now. I don't see the right piece in the board. The Cubs have 1 great piece a year out and a TOR Lefty at Iowa.

So ya know I'm good with rentals and get busy in 24.

4 good to great SS on the market and you don't see a fit because none can supplant Madrigal or Wisdom or Morel?

I would disagree with that.

I like Hoerner at SS, but if you can add one of the FAs and move him to 2nd you do it. Unless one of them goes to 2nd. But if they avoid a FA SS because they have Nick Madrigal and Christopher Morel platooning they should just give up trying to be a baseball organization.

Fortunately, I don't see them avoiding FA for that reason.

 

[Diehardfan]

4 good to great SS on the market and you don't see a fit because none can supplant Madrigal or Wisdom or Morel?

I would disagree with that.

I like Hoerner at SS, but if you can add one of the FAs and move him to 2nd you do it. Unless one of them goes to 2nd. But if they avoid a FA SS because they have Nick Madrigal and Christopher Morel platooning they should just give up trying to be a baseball organization.

Fortunately, I don't see them avoiding FA for that reason.

I wouldn't pencil in Morel anywhere. Why destroy his best asset by giving him a regular spot. Even if you forgo the fact that he's not a great hitter, not using him as a super sub would be unforgivable. Wisdom? I'm not sure I could stomach another year of his feeble attempts at making contact.

 

[CSF77]

4 good to great SS on the market and you don't see a fit because none can supplant Madrigal or Wisdom or Morel?

I would disagree with that.

I like Hoerner at SS, but if you can add one of the FAs and move him to 2nd you do it. Unless one of them goes to 2nd. But if they avoid a FA SS because they have Nick Madrigal and Christopher Morel platooning they should just give up trying to be a baseball organization.

Fortunately, I don't see them avoiding FA for that reason.

More about timing. Give it a year and the farm answers some issues going on. I think that they should spend but on rounding out and strengthen weakness vs dumping the load into one guy that really is not flipping this team into a contender by himself.

 

[CSF77]

Texas tried that. Spend big at SS/2B. Still suck...

 

[CSF77]

Only guy I would be on board with is Swanson. Best glove.

Before the cray cray starts.

Swanson has a Def ahead of Lindor. 21 vs 16. Not even close. fWAR both are 6-7.

So we are talking the best SS on the market. Rest are just name value.

That pushes Hoerner over to 2B and at that point the Cubs can act agressivly on trading for a established 3B.

If that is the plan I am on board with it.

But buying a name is just hot air and only guarantee's a increase in payroll

 

[SilenceS]

I wouldn't pencil in Morel anywhere. Why destroy his best asset by giving him a regular spot. Even if you forgo the fact that he's not a great hitter, not using him as a super sub would be unforgivable. Wisdom? I'm not sure I could stomach another year of his feeble attempts at making contact.

Morel is going to assume the Baez role before he became a GG SS. He is going to play all over and be out versatility so i agree with you

 

[knoxville7]

Uuuugghhh......I would really like to move on from Bote and Wisdom. If not, the only thing I want them battling for is the best seat on the bench.

Oh, I agree. I just don’t like the FA options at 3B this offseason. So you try and mix and match at third for another season instead of getting into a bad contract