⚽️⚽️⚽️OFFICAIL⚽️⚽️⚽️ 2022 FIFA World Cup of FOOTBALL Thread: ARGENTINA vs FRANCE (FINALS) - 12/18 @ 9:00AM CT [FTO]

The Hawk

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If they are favorites in Vegas then they are perceived to be the best team. Doesn't mean they are the best team but it is who Vegas thinks is most likely to win.
Yeah and I am saying the same thing. Oddsmakers determine who the best teams are in all sports. Until a game gets played, no one knows who is the better team. At the end of the tournament, the winner is declared champion and best team as of that moment. A lot of different things goes into oddsmaking and ranking players or teams.
 

HeHateMe

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I am less knowledgable with soccer so I will not comment on how much luck is involved.

That said, of the 4 major team sports in the US, their seem to be more playoff series upsets in hockey than the other 3 sports. Well, football might be close because it is one game and advance. But in hockey, it seems like there is a lot more randomness than basketball or even baseball. Maybe luck is not the right word, but it is just harder to predict.
there is SO MUCH skill and finesse involved with both soccer and hockey, and there are players as individuals that can really stand out or if injured, having a bad game, put their team at a disadvantage. I guess that's true with any sport but with such low scoring games, I guess to the average observer or ignorant spectator (@The Hawk) it's really much easier to term gameplay, nuance, shifting variables as "LUCK." Just my opinion but I do find it insulting to the players that work so hard on top of being naturally gifted, to deem their achievements on the field "lucky."
 

The Hawk

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I thought it was all LUCK?
I never said it was all LUCK. I said that luck plays into soccer game outcomes more than it does other sports and allows lesser teams to tie and even win against better teams
 

knoxville7

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Can you just comment about what is being said and argued and knock off the personal insults? Also. Your 3rd sentence doesn't make sense. In every competition that is bet on, the favorite is considered the best team. Maybe you would be better off rethinking your arguments because this one doesn't make sense.
And the favorite was BRAZIL!!!

You’re making my point for me, thanks!
 
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didshereallysaythat

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Yeah and I am saying the same thing. Oddsmakers determine who the best teams are in all sports. Until a game gets played, no one knows who is the better team. At the end of the tournament, the winner is declared champion and best team as of that moment. A lot of different things goes into oddsmaking and ranking players or teams.
Agreed. I think though that good gamblers can take advantage of that perception. A lot of times, some of it is baked in from past results and a keen eye can see where a particular team might have some weaknesses going forward. In the NFL, I notice a lot of futures and even point spreads can get inflated for teams based on how good their offense is. For instance, I don't think the Bills are the best team but they are current favorites to win the Super Bowl. I think a lot of it has to do with the perception of Allen and that offense. But I don't think they are the most complete team and would keep a close eye on a team like Cincy.
 

knoxville7

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wrt the conversion between @remydat and @knoxville7 about Brazil and Croatia, Brazil are a more talented squad individually but Modric is the best player out of all of them. An elite, HOFer box to box center midfielder and one of the best to ever play his position. Croatia won the midfield battles which is vital. As Remy said they're a battle tested unit and a match for anyone.
Agreed on all of what you said

All I ever claimed was that Brazil was the favorite in the tournament and now they are out, which opens the door for other teams like France to seize the opportunity
 

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I have been taking up chess recently. I suck ass but I think if I just keep playing the computer at a the novice level I can improve. I finally was able to beat like 1200 ELO. Yeah pathetic I know.
love chess, lifelong player and fan. and it's true, if you aren't 100% brain disabled, you definitely learn and grow as a player just by playing, especially if you play a lot of different opponents. It took me years to win against my dad, took my son a year to get his first victory against me, took him a few months to beat his grandfathers, etc. Honestly I love seeing him learn from each loss, and develop his own strategies along the way. Really a fascinating experience, especially when he can go back reverse all of our moves 5 or 6 turns back to show me how he set me up...
 

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I never said it was all LUCK. I said that luck plays into soccer game outcomes more than it does other sports and allows lesser teams to tie and even win against better teams
It doesn't though.
 

didshereallysaythat

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there is SO MUCH skill and finesse involved with both soccer and hockey, and there are players as individuals that can really stand out or if injured, having a bad game, put their team at a disadvantage. I guess that's true with any sport but with such low scoring games, I guess to the average observer or ignorant spectator (@The Hawk) it's really much easier to term gameplay, nuance, shifting variables as "LUCK." Just my opinion but I do find it insulting to the players that work so hard on top of being naturally gifted, to deem their achievements on the field "lucky."
I am always in awe when I see hockey players be able to deflect passes with their stick to change the angle or trajectory to get it past the goalie. Like shit, that puck is moving fast and is tiny and they can do that. Crazy.
 

remydat

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To split the difference, let's not call it luck. It is easier in soccer for a team to win against the run of play than other sports because scoring is so few and far between.

Brazil for example had far more shots on goal throughput the match while Croatia only had one. That one though tied the game. Once you get to penalties there is also an element of being able to guess right although in this case the Croatian GK has had so much success guessing right that I would attribute that to his skill, research and instincts rather than luck.
 

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there is SO MUCH skill and finesse involved with both soccer and hockey, and there are players as individuals that can really stand out or if injured, having a bad game, put their team at a disadvantage. I guess that's true with any sport but with such low scoring games, I guess to the average observer or ignorant spectator (@The Hawk) it's really much easier to term gameplay, nuance, shifting variables as "LUCK." Just my opinion but I do find it insulting to the players that work so hard on top of being naturally gifted, to deem their achievements on the field "lucky."
Once again, this clown, HHM, totally lies about the point that I made and changes it to something else entirely. Now this clown refuses to admit that in soccer there are many times where a less talented team can tie or beat a better team while in sports which by their nature reward better teams ability to dominate and score against weaker opposition.

By the way, you actually admitted that I was right about what I said about soccer games being decided luck more than other sports because of the low scoring nature of the game itself. As dumb as you are, you don't even know that you did it.

:dramatic::dramatic:
 

remydat

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If they are favorites in Vegas then they are perceived to be the best team. Doesn't mean they are the best team but it is who Vegas thinks is most likely to win.

Yes but Brazil have been favored to win the last 3 world cups and come up empty. So Vegas has consistently got it wrong.
 

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Once again, this clown, HHM, totally lies about the point that I made and changes it to something else entirely. Now this clown refuses to admit that in soccer there are many times where a less talented team can tie or beat a better team while in sports which by their nature reward better teams ability to dominate and score against weaker opposition.

By the way, you actually admitted that I was right about what I said about soccer games being decided luck more than other sports because of the low scoring nature of the game itself. As dumb as you are, you don't even know that you did it.

:dramatic::dramatic:
Yeah I don't think you read or took into consideration the totality of what I wrote. It's like You're like a pigeon playing chess in that you shit all over the board and claim victory, except you're too scared to play, and think your a bird of prey.
 

The Hawk

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To split the difference, let's not call it luck. It is easier in soccer for a team to win against the run of play than other sports because scoring is so few and far between.

Brazil for example had far more shots on goal throughput the match while Croatia only had one. That one though tied the game. Once you get to penalties there is also an element of being able to guess right although in this case the Croatian GK has had so much success guessing right that I would attribute that to his skill, research and instincts rather than luck.
You're right. The way I see it is that I think that Croatia and Brazil were very evenly matched. I think that Croatia had the better keeper and set pieces and Brazil more skilled and faster players. Maybe if they played each other five time, Brazil might win 3 or 4 of them. MAYBE. But in a winner take all tournament like the World Cup, when you get to the final 8 or so teams, its all a crap shoot(pun intended).

I also think that you are correct about the Croatian keeper. I think that he kind of intimidates the opponents in PKS. I also think that the Croatian players are like old west shootists and aren't going to miss what they are shooting at.
 

The Hawk

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Yeah I don't think you read or took into consideration the totality of what I wrote. It's like You're like a pigeon playing chess in that you shit all over the board and claim victory, except you're too scared to play, and think your a bird of prey.
Fuck off, loser. I commented about Croatia winning a game against Brazil and you turned the thing into an attack on me. Can you not just stick to the subject at hand and quit your damned insults? Also, I fail to understand with this bullshit "chess" prowess that you claim to have. Who the hell cares about chess let alone your supposed ability to play the game? Its a boring game to me. If you like to play it with your knitting club ladies, goody for you.
 

HeHateMe

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Fuck off, loser. I commented about Croatia winning a game against Brazil and you turned the thing into an attack on me. Can you not just stick to the subject at hand and quit your damned insults? Also, I fail to understand with this bullshit "chess" prowess that you claim to have. Who the hell cares about chess let alone your supposed ability to play the game? Its a boring game to me. If you like to play it with your knitting club ladies, goody for you.
knitting club ladies?
 

HeHateMe

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You're right. The way I see it is that I think that Croatia and Brazil were very evenly matched. I think that Croatia had the better keeper and set pieces and Brazil more skilled and faster players. Maybe if they played each other five time, Brazil might win 3 or 4 of them. MAYBE. But in a winner take all tournament like the World Cup, when you get to the final 8 or so teams, its all a crap shoot(pun intended).

I also think that you are correct about the Croatian keeper. I think that he kind of intimidates the opponents in PKS. I also think that the Croatian players are like old west shootists and aren't going to miss what they are shooting at.


I thought Old West Shootists were just lucky?
 

The Hawk

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My son has bank shot goals off of opposing defenders more than once. Guess it is all luck though LMFAO

So did mine. Was that Croatian tying goal not affected by LUCK? How about that Brazilian shot that hit the post. LUCK have anything to do with that?

Hint. You're losing the argument. Quit while you are behind.


:dramatic:
 

HeHateMe

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So did mine. Was that Croatian tying goal not affected by LUCK? How about that Brazilian shot that hit the post. LUCK have anything to do with that?

Hint. You're losing the argument. Quit while you are behind.


:dramatic:
I think it was God's will, not luck. Have a nice day.
 

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