110 of 111 players found to have CTE

[inchibearfan]

Soccer has significant head trauma (heading the ball, the ball being kicked and hitting your head). May this be the end of people playing sports?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...mer-soccer-players-known-for-heading.amp.html

 

[ClydeLee]

I heard there's videos of professional tag online. New types of sports.

E sports will reign then until the terrible carpal tunnel crisis ends their reign.

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[Bearin' Down]

I don't buy the results of this as illustrative of anything but bias. I'm just as likely to have CTE as a place kicker.

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[dennehy]

They need a big study to see if how prevalent CTE is naturally, meaning is this something that lots of people get as they age. We've been able to manipulate our bodies to live much longer than most did just a few hundred years ago, but we don't really have a way to manipulate brains in such a fashion.

 

[DrGonzo]

Yeah there's clearly selection bias in that study. So let's be conservative and say the incidence of CTE in NFL players is really only 5℅. If five out of every 100 NFL players end up with dementia they would not have if they chose a different career - would that be OK?

The current research is pretty clear that playing football causes a certain percentage of men's brains to turn into mush. Just playing football, not concussions.

(For the record, I said in my first post the concussion protocol is a good thing. On its own. It's just silly or trolling to say I don't think it can help.)

The NFL PR machine is doing a good job duping people into questioning that science. They also have succeeded in getting most people to think CTE is caused by concussions, when the research says it is not. Hell, Hollywood's movie about CTE is even called "Concussion".

Maybe newer or better research will change the picture but for now, if I'm being honest with myself, I have to admit that football is plain bad for people. The benefits of organized pro sports to players and society can be had through other activities.

Go ahead, lament how the sport you know and love is becoming unrecognizable, or tell yourself new high-tech helmets will fix this, talk about informed choices and players getting to take the risk if they choose. It doesn't change the facts.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer. I love football! But them's the facts.

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[Bearly]

There's enough info out there for players to have a reasonable understanding of the risks. They get paid a ton for a high risk endeavor which isn't a new idea. They can weigh the risks. The bigger issue is how they get into the league and amatuer impact. Id o think more work needs to done and look at the influence of substances like steroids, speed/adderall, painkillers and alcohol have on these outcomes. We know that even if not having an active roll, steroids can increase aggression and gives greater mass and momentum to cause injury. I would wager that virtually all of those currently going through the testing continued to play with concussions so I wouldn't minimize its influence. If you're my age, you saw a guy get dinged and come back almost every week.

None of this is to minimize something that has enough evidence to show it's real with or without these influences but it does make it difficult to know the true risk for playing without intent of violence under the current rules and without outside influences. There is certainly cause for great concern but it will be a while before we know the whole story. It's the whole correlation vs causation thing though the correlation is quite strong. I'd personally assume it's so but not speak in absolutes at this time.

 

[Raskolnikov]

They need a big study to see if how prevalent CTE is naturally, meaning is this something that lots of people get as they age. We've been able to manipulate our bodies to live much longer than most did just a few hundred years ago, but we don't really have a way to manipulate brains in such a fashion.

the other 100 people didn't play football, and weren't 100%

 

[laputan]

Yeah there's clearly selection bias in that study. So let's be conservative and say the incidence of CTE in NFL players is really only 5℅. If five out of every 100 NFL players end up with dementia they would not have if they chose a different career - would that be OK?

5%? Not even close to close.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer. I love football! But them's the facts.

 

[dennehy]

the other 100 people didn't play football, and weren't 100%

Which other 100?

 

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah there's clearly selection bias in that study. So let's be conservative and say the incidence of CTE in NFL players is really only 5℅. If five out of every 100 NFL players end up with dementia they would not have if they chose a different career - would that be OK?

The current research is pretty clear that playing football causes a certain percentage of men's brains to turn into mush. Just playing football, not concussions.

(For the record, I said in my first post the concussion protocol is a good thing. On its own. It's just silly or trolling to say I don't think it can help.)

The NFL PR machine is doing a good job duping people into questioning that science. They also have succeeded in getting most people to think CTE is caused by concussions, when the research says it is not. Hell, Hollywood's movie about CTE is even called "Concussion".

Maybe newer or better research will change the picture but for now, if I'm being honest with myself, I have to admit that football is plain bad for people. The benefits of organized pro sports to players and society can be had through other activities.

Go ahead, lament how the sport you know and love is becoming unrecognizable, or tell yourself new high-tech helmets will fix this, talk about informed choices and players getting to take the risk if they choose. It doesn't change the facts.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer. I love football! But them's the facts.

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you can start by eliminating all the practice impacts which end up 10x more than the game impacts. They keep children from headers now until a certain age in soccer, and slightly softer balls would eliminate the risk entirely. just slightly, imo, even, especially under 18.

I got headaches doing headers as a kid.

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

the other 100 people didn't play football, and weren't 100%

It says quite clearly 202 deceased football players. The other 91 did not play in the NFL.

Pugilistic dementia was first diagnosed in the 20s. We know a fair bit about this already, and the correlation is very evident. Again, this is obviously a weighted study, but the correlation is those who played for longer periods, and at higher levels, were much further along in their CTE.

 

[dennehy]

I don't think there's any doubt that NFL players have a far higher rate of CTE than other people. I'd be very interested in a study of who else is at higher risk for it. High school football players? College? Soccer? Drug abusers? Genetic?

Obviously this will take decades to compile, but I'd be happy to donate my brain to the cause.

 

[dbldrew]

Yeah there's clearly selection bias in that study. So let's be conservative and say the incidence of CTE in NFL players is really only 5℅. If five out of every 100 NFL players end up with dementia they would not have if they chose a different career - would that be OK?

people join the military or police force and end up dead or disabled. Some of the most dangerous jobs out there pay a lot of money.. but that is still peanuts compared to what an NFL player makes.. so yes the players will be OK with it

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

I don't think there's any doubt that NFL players have a far higher rate of CTE than other people. I'd be very interested in a study of who else is at higher risk for it. High school football players? College? Soccer? Drug abusers? Genetic?

Obviously this will take decades to compile, but I'd be happy to donate my brain to the cause.

They are studying what they have to study, which includes high school players, college players, ice hockey, soccer, rugby, military, etc. A wider understanding is definitely desirable, but like you said, they need the subjects to do that..

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

I was apparently intentionally unaware of this, like I said, I knew about the handful of high profile cases. I had no idea this study was so wide spread and and going on this long.

BTW, the timing on the release of the findings, does anyone think this is a coincidence?

Other old guys, remember when the NFL and NCAA used to use brain injuries as a promotional tool?

"Oh my what a hit, just brutal. Look at this he is staggering to the wrong sideline, he got his bell rung. Now he's walking in circles and has collapsed, this has got to make the blooper reel. He is going to develop dementia for sure, feel bad for his family, but can't help but laugh. Retards, am I right?"

That's okay, we will always have Madden.

They have been releasing results for years now. There was a Frontline program on this study in 2013 ( http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/league-of-denial/ ), and many peer reviewed publications over the years. But the timing of these recent articles is opportune, just as many are beginning to return their attention to football.

McKee is now focusing on Hockey, a sport that doesn't have as many repeated hits as football.

 

[number51]

They have been releasing results for years now. There was a Frontline program on this study in 2013 ( http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/league-of-denial/ ), and many peer reviewed publications over the years. But the timing of these recent articles is opportune, just as many are beginning to return their attention to football.

McKee is now focusing on Hockey, a sport that doesn't have as many repeated hits as football.

Dr. Ann McKee has been working on this for years, I'm sure she is a dedicated professional trying to help people, even if they don't want it.

My question is on timing. I did a Google News search on Dr Ann McKee and the first four pages were all results from this month most from the last two days. When you get to page five you get a few results from earlier this year, even some from 2016. She became a star this week.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dr.+Ann+McKee&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7l9XcxKfVAhWJ1IMKHdJfB5IQ_AUICygC&biw=1920&bih=940

Publishing her findings at the start of NFL training camp is not a coincidence. I'm not saying her findings are tainted by this, just that it was a calculated move meant to generate the most attention. I guess it's good if it makes some parents think twice about their kids choice in recreational activities, bad for football, but good for the kid.

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

Dr. Ann McKee has been working on this for years, I'm sure she is a dedicated professional trying to help people, even if they don't want it.

My question is on timing. I did a Google News search on Dr Ann McKee and the first four pages were all results from this month most from the last two days. When you get to page five you get a few results from earlier this year, even some from 2016. She became a star this week.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dr.+Ann+McKee&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7l9XcxKfVAhWJ1IMKHdJfB5IQ_AUICygC&biw=1920&bih=940

Publishing her findings at the start of NFL training camp is not a coincidence. I'm not saying her findings are tainted by this, just that it was a calculated move meant to generate the most attention. I guess it's good if it makes some parents think twice about their kids choice in recreational activities, bad for football, but good for the kid.

Oh, I don't deny the timing at all. Was just pointing out that this isn't the first time her studies have been published or publicized. Politics always comes into play in these things unfortunately, but when the league tried to deny, and ownwers like Jerry Jones still do, politics become inevitable.

 

[number51]

Oh, I don't deny the timing at all. Was just pointing out that this isn't the first time her studies have been published or publicized. Politics always comes into play in these things unfortunately, but when the league tried to deny, and ownwers like Jerry Jones still do, politics become inevitable.

Jerry Jones dragging science denial into the NFL. The man is an embarrassment.

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

Jerry Jones dragging science denial into the NFL. The man is an embarrassment.

And he's in the HOF, which to me is an absolute fucking joke.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

As been mentioned ad nauseam, this is not at all a random sample. The brains were taken from symptomatic people.

There are obvious limitations of the study that need to be further explored as well. What are the risk factors(alcohol consumption, age, race, weight, physical activity after retiring or not playing the sport, drug use etc.)? What would be incidence in a more random sample? It appears that linemen may be more susceptible compared to other positions(which makes sense), but what is the comparison of incidence rates holistically speaking?

I would guess, at least in reference to the risk factors question, that certain risk factors that exist for other neurodegenerative diseases may overlap to those in the case of CTE(excluding the obvious repeated blows and concussions). Similar neurodegenerative markers are present in CTE patients(pTau, amyloid beta).

To me, it seems like the link to repeated head blows is a major problem for the NFL, and perhaps other leagues if there such a significant relationship. Football as a whole may need to consider restructuring itself in the future, otherwise kids are going to avoid football except for particular sets of people(a la boxing).