2020 MLB Draft

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,727
Liked Posts:
3,724
Also of note on Nwogu, he had really decent contact rates. He had a 13%/18.6% bb/k rate over 430 PAs at michigan. So, he's not your prototypical power guy who k's a bunch. He also hit .335/.442/.577 as well. Seeing this makes me wonder what their development team might do with him. If he cleans some stuff up he's an intriguing package.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,727
Liked Posts:
3,724
Moreno was a picked the guys from BA on the draft class liked. Fangraphs and mlb.com didn't have him.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,727
Liked Posts:
3,724
Mark Gonzales@MDGonzales
Moreno signed letter-of-intent with East Carolina. According to Baseball America, Moreno's fastball clocked at 94 mph in the Future Star Series last fall and has plenty of upside.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,985
Liked Posts:
2,776
Location:
San Diego
I am liking the lefties. Little I would take time with. Give him the opertunity to start.

Carway IMO you push up.

Over all a solid draft. The noodle arm LF was meh but grabbing 2 upside lefties is always a good thing.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,985
Liked Posts:
2,776
Location:
San Diego

Seems like a big indicator for the cubs draft this year and to be fair they were loading up on gas pitchers last year too

With the upper cut swing path a high fastball is the best counter to it. Then having a curve starting at the same plane to counter it.

That has been a part of the increase of HR frequently with the juiced ball. Most pitchers were going down in the zone with a heavy fastball which falls into the uppercut swing path. A juiced ball just goes farther but squaring it up has more to do with the new thought process to hitting.

Thus starters that have adapted to pitching over it and inducing pop ups and strike outs have excelled.

It leaves pure hitters like Javy who can hit different zones with power as the way to go forward.

I just see the longer contact path as the mainstay hitting philosophy and targeting 4 seem pitching that can push 100 as the best counter.
 

anotheridiot

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 15, 2016
Posts:
5,935
Liked Posts:
799
now it will get interesting with these undrafted guys going for 20K?
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,727
Liked Posts:
3,724
Nwogu isn't someone I would sleep on. MLB.com had 45/60 grades on his hit/power tools which is like a .260 hitter who hits 30 homers. You look at LF's who put those numbers up and that's basically Marcell Ozuna. Tommy Pham might be another similar name. And that's if the cubs hitting development doesn't improve him in a similar manner to the way they did Davis and Nico.

I'm also interested to see if they attempt to let Little start. He has a 4 pitch mix admittedly other than that fastball is pretty meh but he's also a more prototypical size you'd want. Like I get why he is viewed as a reliever. If you can't throw strikes you wind up in a bullpen. I guess I'm just sitting here thinking that if teams only ever took that approach you'd never have gotten Randy Johnson. In his first 3 minor league seasons he had a 7.9 bb/9, a 7.1 and a 8.2. So, I guess I'm just hoping they can smooth some of his command issues out mechanically and use their revamped pitching development in that way rather than just trotting him out as a reliever from the get go.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,985
Liked Posts:
2,776
Location:
San Diego
Nwogu isn't someone I would sleep on. MLB.com had 45/60 grades on his hit/power tools which is like a .260 hitter who hits 30 homers. You look at LF's who put those numbers up and that's basically Marcell Ozuna. Tommy Pham might be another similar name. And that's if the cubs hitting development doesn't improve him in a similar manner to the way they did Davis and Nico.

I'm also interested to see if they attempt to let Little start. He has a 4 pitch mix admittedly other than that fastball is pretty meh but he's also a more prototypical size you'd want. Like I get why he is viewed as a reliever. If you can't throw strikes you wind up in a bullpen. I guess I'm just sitting here thinking that if teams only ever took that approach you'd never have gotten Randy Johnson. In his first 3 minor league seasons he had a 7.9 bb/9, a 7.1 and a 8.2. So, I guess I'm just hoping they can smooth some of his command issues out mechanically and use their revamped pitching development in that way rather than just trotting him out as a reliever from the get go.

I was reading that his swing mechanic is clunky. Upper half and lower half are out of sync. He is going to be a project and a potential bust due to it. D wise he is limited to LF.

So I just see him as a project. Nothing to get excited about. If they can fix his swing mechanic and take away the clunk from it he has DH potential.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,727
Liked Posts:
3,724
I was reading that his swing mechanic is clunky. Upper half and lower half are out of sync. He is going to be a project and a potential bust due to it. D wise he is limited to LF.

So I just see him as a project. Nothing to get excited about. If they can fix his swing mechanic and take away the clunk from it he has DH potential.
Think you're undervaluing his defense. He's only "bad" because he has a weak throwing arm. He played CF for a michigan team that got 2nd at the college world series. So, he's not your prototypical bad fielding DH/LFer type. He's also not prone to striking out suggesting he has a very good eye(13%/18.6% bb/k rates in college).

I mean look I'm not going to sit here and say he's guaranteed to be amazing but the guy was being recruited as an edge rusher in football. He's super athletic for his size which given the cubs track record improving swing mechanics is a good guy to bet on. As far as the defense is concerned a weak arm especially in LF isn't that big of a deal. For example, Yelich has a -8.3 arm portion of his UZR since 2016 and because he has good range has still been worth 2.3 UZR/150. What matters far more in outfield defense is your range. You're more concerned in cutting down doubles than you are throwing guys out at home plate. The fact Michigan played him in CF shows he has decent range. That's not to say he's gonna be Billy Hamilton out there but he's also not going to be Melky Cabrera.

I could regale you with numerous names here but just go look at players who hit 25 HRs and had a walk rate over 10%. What you're going to see is they almost universally have a wRC+ of 115-120+. Even guys who have total dogshit batting averages like Rhys Hoskins are still productive bats at those rates and Nwogu has shown he's not a typical heavy K rate guy like Hoskins which really hampers his batting average.

If you go back and look what I said about Davis after he was drafted and why I was so high on him before he broke out most of the same things apply to Nwogu. The only major difference is his arm isn't nearly as good as Davis. But when you put a 60 grade run tool with a 55 grade power tool you have very interesting tools to build off of. And keep in mind MLB.com had him at a 45 hit 45 power 70 run 55 arm 50 field as opposed to Nwogu who's 45 hit 55 power 60 run 45 arm and 45 field. And that run tool is with him already being 6'3 235 where as Davis was listed at 6'4 175 and obviously Davis has slowed mildly as he's added muscle(down to a 60 runner now).

The point here is Davis was widely viewed to have a similar skillset in the draft and the cubs cleaned up his swing a bit and he had a monster first full season. In the case of Nwogu, it's not like he even hit bad in college. He had the 7th best batting average in the big 10 in 2019, the 5th best OBP, and the 6th best SLG. And as I already illustrated, he had good contact rates. I'm sure his current mechanics will expose him a bit vs higher level competition and thus need some reworking but when you hit .321/.435/.557 with flaws you have a lot of room to work with. Given the recent success the cubs have had quickly altering players I wouldn't bet against him. I mean Hoerner immediately found more power. Davis made a slight change and hit over .300. Say what you will about their ability to develop pitching but they know what the fuck they are doing with hitters. Even very meh tooled players like Bote have been developed well.
 

knoxville7

I have the stride of a gazelle
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Jul 12, 2013
Posts:
16,771
Liked Posts:
13,293
Location:
The sewers
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Tennessee Volunteers
That is a huge maybe. Javy can lose a step and still play top end D.

At the end of the day it is better to draft a arm. Just my opinion. Arms get injured far more and opertunites happen far more frequent. That weighs the scale in draft weight towards arms in value.

isn’t this a reason to avoid drafting arm heavy?
 

anotheridiot

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 15, 2016
Posts:
5,935
Liked Posts:
799
Think you're undervaluing his defense. He's only "bad" because he has a weak throwing arm. He played CF for a michigan team that got 2nd at the college world series. So, he's not your prototypical bad fielding DH/LFer type. He's also not prone to striking out suggesting he has a very good eye(13%/18.6% bb/k rates in college).

I mean look I'm not going to sit here and say he's guaranteed to be amazing but the guy was being recruited as an edge rusher in football. He's super athletic for his size which given the cubs track record improving swing mechanics is a good guy to bet on. As far as the defense is concerned a weak arm especially in LF isn't that big of a deal. For example, Yelich has a -8.3 arm portion of his UZR since 2016 and because he has good range has still been worth 2.3 UZR/150. What matters far more in outfield defense is your range. You're more concerned in cutting down doubles than you are throwing guys out at home plate. The fact Michigan played him in CF shows he has decent range. That's not to say he's gonna be Billy Hamilton out there but he's also not going to be Melky Cabrera.

I could regale you with numerous names here but just go look at players who hit 25 HRs and had a walk rate over 10%. What you're going to see is they almost universally have a wRC+ of 115-120+. Even guys who have total dogshit batting averages like Rhys Hoskins are still productive bats at those rates and Nwogu has shown he's not a typical heavy K rate guy like Hoskins which really hampers his batting average.

If you go back and look what I said about Davis after he was drafted and why I was so high on him before he broke out most of the same things apply to Nwogu. The only major difference is his arm isn't nearly as good as Davis. But when you put a 60 grade run tool with a 55 grade power tool you have very interesting tools to build off of. And keep in mind MLB.com had him at a 45 hit 45 power 70 run 55 arm 50 field as opposed to Nwogu who's 45 hit 55 power 60 run 45 arm and 45 field. And that run tool is with him already being 6'3 235 where as Davis was listed at 6'4 175 and obviously Davis has slowed mildly as he's added muscle(down to a 60 runner now).

The point here is Davis was widely viewed to have a similar skillset in the draft and the cubs cleaned up his swing a bit and he had a monster first full season. In the case of Nwogu, it's not like he even hit bad in college. He had the 7th best batting average in the big 10 in 2019, the 5th best OBP, and the 6th best SLG. And as I already illustrated, he had good contact rates. I'm sure his current mechanics will expose him a bit vs higher level competition and thus need some reworking but when you hit .321/.435/.557 with flaws you have a lot of room to work with. Given the recent success the cubs have had quickly altering players I wouldn't bet against him. I mean Hoerner immediately found more power. Davis made a slight change and hit over .300. Say what you will about their ability to develop pitching but they know what the fuck they are doing with hitters. Even very meh tooled players like Bote have been developed well.

So kinda like Ozuna when his shoulder was hurt and could not throw the ball.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,727
Liked Posts:
3,724
Cubs look to be doing well thus far signing guys post draft. Thus far they have grabbed Bradlee Beesley(429 on BA's top 500) and Scott McKeon(438). So far the only other team to sign a top 500 guy is San Diego who signed the guy who was 465th.

Beesley was #6 and McKeon was #10 on BA's top 25 seniors to watch.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,727
Liked Posts:
3,724
Greg Huss@OutOfTheVines
Looks like the Cubs have also signed Angel Gonzalez, a high schooler out of Puerto Rico. He popped 94 MPH off the mound in a showcase event last year
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,985
Liked Posts:
2,776
Location:
San Diego
isn’t this a reason to avoid drafting arm heavy?


not at all.

Ok we all know the draft is a crap shoot. But you still have to take talented arms.

The main problem has been drafting filler talent. Basically they were going through the motions of drafting pitching. None of the talent had much value (except Cease) and to add to it they were not good at development. They were good at trading for other talent though. IE Arretta and Hendricks. But they never gave themselves a legit chance to self develop via draft picks.

Now they have picked a few quality arms over the past few drafts but in general any impact has come from the international market. State side they play it safe. Even this year the 3 arms they took none project as a starter.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,985
Liked Posts:
2,776
Location:
San Diego
Think you're undervaluing his defense. He's only "bad" because he has a weak throwing arm. He played CF for a michigan team that got 2nd at the college world series. So, he's not your prototypical bad fielding DH/LFer type. He's also not prone to striking out suggesting he has a very good eye(13%/18.6% bb/k rates in college).

I mean look I'm not going to sit here and say he's guaranteed to be amazing but the guy was being recruited as an edge rusher in football. He's super athletic for his size which given the cubs track record improving swing mechanics is a good guy to bet on. As far as the defense is concerned a weak arm especially in LF isn't that big of a deal. For example, Yelich has a -8.3 arm portion of his UZR since 2016 and because he has good range has still been worth 2.3 UZR/150. What matters far more in outfield defense is your range. You're more concerned in cutting down doubles than you are throwing guys out at home plate. The fact Michigan played him in CF shows he has decent range. That's not to say he's gonna be Billy Hamilton out there but he's also not going to be Melky Cabrera.

I could regale you with numerous names here but just go look at players who hit 25 HRs and had a walk rate over 10%. What you're going to see is they almost universally have a wRC+ of 115-120+. Even guys who have total dogshit batting averages like Rhys Hoskins are still productive bats at those rates and Nwogu has shown he's not a typical heavy K rate guy like Hoskins which really hampers his batting average.

If you go back and look what I said about Davis after he was drafted and why I was so high on him before he broke out most of the same things apply to Nwogu. The only major difference is his arm isn't nearly as good as Davis. But when you put a 60 grade run tool with a 55 grade power tool you have very interesting tools to build off of. And keep in mind MLB.com had him at a 45 hit 45 power 70 run 55 arm 50 field as opposed to Nwogu who's 45 hit 55 power 60 run 45 arm and 45 field. And that run tool is with him already being 6'3 235 where as Davis was listed at 6'4 175 and obviously Davis has slowed mildly as he's added muscle(down to a 60 runner now).

The point here is Davis was widely viewed to have a similar skillset in the draft and the cubs cleaned up his swing a bit and he had a monster first full season. In the case of Nwogu, it's not like he even hit bad in college. He had the 7th best batting average in the big 10 in 2019, the 5th best OBP, and the 6th best SLG. And as I already illustrated, he had good contact rates. I'm sure his current mechanics will expose him a bit vs higher level competition and thus need some reworking but when you hit .321/.435/.557 with flaws you have a lot of room to work with. Given the recent success the cubs have had quickly altering players I wouldn't bet against him. I mean Hoerner immediately found more power. Davis made a slight change and hit over .300. Say what you will about their ability to develop pitching but they know what the fuck they are doing with hitters. Even very meh tooled players like Bote have been developed well.

He still is a hitting project. upper and lower half are out of sync. He gets by with his quick hands. But lets be a little real here for a second. He survived vs lesser talent and got by due to that fact. He will be going from 89 mph to 98 mph soon enough. Bad mechanics will kill him.

So in general this pick is a head scratchier. I am guessing that they know how to fix his swing. But seeing how most get eaten by the system and never make it past A ball...
 

knoxville7

I have the stride of a gazelle
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Jul 12, 2013
Posts:
16,771
Liked Posts:
13,293
Location:
The sewers
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Tennessee Volunteers
not at all.

Ok we all know the draft is a crap shoot. But you still have to take talented arms.

The main problem has been drafting filler talent. Basically they were going through the motions of drafting pitching. None of the talent had much value (except Cease) and to add to it they were not good at development. They were good at trading for other talent though. IE Arretta and Hendricks. But they never gave themselves a legit chance to self develop via draft picks.

Now they have picked a few quality arms over the past few drafts but in general any impact has come from the international market. State side they play it safe. Even this year the 3 arms they took none project as a starter.

k but that didn’t address the issue of arms getting hurt at a much higher rate. Doesn’t it make sense to take the position player with upside and a lower chance of getting hurt, and plan to trade/sign FA pitching. Keep your cost on position players down,and buy your pitching...due to not knowing what arms will make it to the big leagues unscathed
 

Top