2022 Blackhawks Trades/Signings

[JimAKABlkhwks918]

Soooo, that begs the question: what is his ceiling, what do you believe is his untapped potential and how much better can he get?

Do you consider it possible that this is as good as he can be?

Personally, Idk, I really like him but his current level of performance may be all he can ever be, and therefore he is at max trade value right now.

That assessment is on the GM, and if he's worth his salary, he makes the correct judgment and also gets the max return.

I'm not advocating just shoving everyone out the door "because we're in a rebuild!" but I'm also of the mindset that this thing is bottomed out right now. Most of the players here now won't be part of the rebuilt team when it's capable again, even if the process goes perfectly (which it never does, no GM ever hits on every pick and move.) All that said, I'm listening to offers from anyone for anyone, but I only take max value for the few gems I have if I'm going to move them. The journeyman players I'll take as many picks as I can get for them, because they can be replaced with cheap FA's during the rebuild, and I need as many picks as possible to reseed the farm that Stan "The Dust Bowl" Bowman left as scorched earth.

 

[SkyKing]

What I don't understand about moving Hagel is that he's the kind of guy a rebuilding team would want to have around, not to get rid of. He's young, talented, hard-working and affordable (at this point anyway). Of course he's a part of the minimal trade bait the Hawks have available but why move him for some unknown draft pick or prospect UNLESS there's an unbelievable deal offered? I just hope Davidson doesn't pull a Bowman type deal just for the sake of making a deal and/or some sort of news splash.

 

[Granada]

What I don't understand about moving Hagel is that he's the kind of guy a rebuilding team would want to have around, not to get rid of. He's young, talented, hard-working and affordable (at this point anyway). Of course he's a part of the minimal trade bait the Hawks have available but why move him for some unknown draft pick or prospect UNLESS there's an unbelievable deal offered? I just hope Davidson doesn't pull a Bowman type deal just for the sake of making a deal and/or some sort of news splash.

It's a numbers game, it always is in a rebuild. The top picks and/or prospects Hagel evidently commands are more valuable on a rebuild as opposed to a single proven commodity (Hagel), even if they are unproven. At some point, you have to take your chances.

 

[LordKOTL]

His ceiling is a stud 3rd liner. I'm not saying that to disrespect him, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I stress the word "stud" 3rd liner. Maybe he's on a second line on an unbelievably stacked team that has essentially a 2B line as their 3rd line. Like a Kopecky when he was here.

I agree, his trade value is sky high right now. I love the guy, but honestly, it'll sting a bit but I'd be okay if he's moved (assuming the return is right). It's like I said before: if you want a rebuild, you have to move pieces that will actually fetch you valuable rebuilding pieces. If you're just going to acquire 2nd and 3rd round picks, you're not going to rebuild.

It's reported that the asking price by the Hawks is extremely high for Hagel. I'm okay with that too. If Davidson doesn't get the asking price he's demanding, then you keep him. It'll hurt the rebuild, but it's preferable to moving him for anything less.

I agree. Hagel seems like the player who would indeed be a stud 3rd liner, but also has enough skill to play on the top-2 lines and not shoot the team in the foot. I also agree with the fact that the 'hawks should have specific pieces in mind for the rebuild, and if the offers for Hagel don't match what the 'hawks are asking for, we simply don't move him.

What I don't understand about moving Hagel is that he's the kind of guy a rebuilding team would want to have around, not to get rid of. He's young, talented, hard-working and affordable (at this point anyway). Of course he's a part of the minimal trade bait the Hawks have available but why move him for some unknown draft pick or prospect UNLESS there's an unbelievable deal offered? I just hope Davidson doesn't pull a Bowman type deal just for the sake of making a deal and/or some sort of news splash.

I believe I mentioned this in another thread, but wingers develop much quicker than centers, defensemen, and goalies. the 'hawks have what little strength they have in wingers: Kane, Debrincat, and Hagel. Their center depth is very lacking: Toews and Strome, and Toews is likely on the outtro of his career. Goaltending we have maybe Lankinen or Soderblom; neither of whom have shown that they are at least an average starter (yet), and the defense is a wasteland on-par with Pripyat.

Also, given the timeframe of the last 'hawks dynasty, it took 7-8 years between draft and domination for Seabrook and Keith. That reflected in Hagel's timeline puts him in his 30's where he would be commanding a pricetag on-par with his play and possibly on the downswing of his career. However, if a team was willing to part with a can't miss D-prospect who would be a bonafied #1-2 D-man, that could help jumpstart the rebuild.

Hagel does a lot of things right, and if the 'hawks were in a position less 2006 and more 2008 or 2009 he would be a piece you absolutely want to keep. As it stands now, though, he's basically the right player at the wrong time. We shouldn't be giving him up for nothing and certainly not giving him up for project players like our ex-accountant did, but we should absolutely be entertaining offers for him and everyone that can get the right personnel we need in now. And if those offers don't drop? Keep him.

 

[KBIB]

during a rebuild you get rid of old talented players not young ones. Hagel is only 23, thats the kind of player you are trying to get to build for the future, trading Hagel seems counter productive for a rebuild

Depends on how long Davidson thinks the rebuild will take.

If he’s going a five year build, ship Hagel out and get a ton for him and restock draft picks the way Tallon did.

If your thinking a three year, keep him but if somebody really wants him let them know it’s going to cost a lot considering his cap hit is ridiculous.

I’m listening on everyone not named Cat or Seth and if somebody offered the moon on Cat I’d think about it where as nobody is touching that Seth contract.

This entire team needs an enema. Get rid of all the old shit from Stan’s regime and shape the team the right way. And I’m sorry, but get tough Canadian and American kids in the later rounds instead of drafting euros who nine times out of ten never even come over any more or are lost playing on small rinks. The best decision this club made was kicking Stan and Kelly to the curb and this obsessiveness with skill over hockey IQ. You can teach a kid how to skate but you can’t teach intelligence, and this team just don’t fucking have that any more.

 

[HSBOB]

A 23yro with 105 games under his belt has hit his ceiling? Then by all means trade him....unless you think the 'give er everything you have every shift' while playing at a 28/52 pace and playing on the 1st PK unit youngster has more to offer......I go with the later.

The issue I see here,is the kid came up a grinder/energy player and somehow in Chicago that's always seen as a bottom six only player and this is a mistaken assessment in Hagel's instance IMO. Brandon Hagel potted 41 in his last WHL season and 19 in his only Covid shortened AHL season before seeming to adjust to the NHL rather quickly.

I'll admit to liking the kid originally due to his feisty style but I soon saw ample raw ability that has refined in a hurry and I hope he never has to drop em again and settle other's hash because he's actually playing hockey,which he's pretty good at. It'd be great to see this team finally constructed so Lil dudes like Cat and Hags actually have someone else watching their backs but we're still FAR from it.

Hagel like any other player can be moved with the right return though,I just hope it's to a contender. One more reason to watch another team and one less to watch this one for me.

 

[HSBOB]

Depends on how long Davidson thinks the rebuild will take.

If he’s going a five year build, ship Hagel out and get a ton for him and restock draft picks the way Tallon did.

If your thinking a three year, keep him but if somebody really wants him let them know it’s going to cost a lot considering his cap hit is ridiculous.

I’m listening on everyone not named Cat or Seth and if somebody offered the moon on Cat I’d think about it where as nobody is touching that Seth contract.

This entire team needs an enema. Get rid of all the old shit from Stan’s regime and shape the team the right way. And I’m sorry, but get tough Canadian and American kids in the later rounds instead of drafting euros who nine times out of ten never even come over any more or are lost playing on small rinks. The best decision this club made was kicking Stan and Kelly to the curb and this obsessiveness with skill over hockey IQ. You can teach a kid how to skate but you can’t teach intelligence, and this team just don’t fucking have that any more.

When it comes to D-Cat,I have to wonder how long he's satisfied playing in meaningless games. To watch the kid 'up on the bit' to use a horse
racing term the other night against TB was awesome. He was scorin',passin' and chirpin' up the bolts all game long,he was born for big games and he'll see none here if he stays. I can see him being kept as a draw if Kane is moved but traded if Kane is kept,he's a RFA at the end of this deal......I doubt he re-signs for those reasons.

 

[Granada]

A 23yro with 105 games under his belt has hit his ceiling? Then by all means trade him....unless you think the 'give er everything you have every shift' while playing at a 28/52 pace and playing on the 1st PK unit youngster has more to offer......I go with the later.

The issue I see here,is the kid came up a grinder/energy player and somehow in Chicago that's always seen as a bottom six only player and this is a mistaken assessment in Hagel's instance IMO. Brandon Hagel potted 41 in his last WHL season and 19 in his only Covid shortened AHL season before seeming to adjust to the NHL rather quickly.

I'll admit to liking the kid originally due to his feisty style but I soon saw ample raw ability that has refined in a hurry and I hope he never has to drop em again and settle other's hash because he's actually playing hockey,which he's pretty good at. It'd be great to see this team finally constructed so Lil dudes like Cat and Hags actually have someone else watching their backs but we're still FAR from it.

Hagel like any other player can be moved with the right return though,I just hope it's to a contender. One more reason to watch another team and one less to watch this one for me.

I don't think anyone said Hagel has hit his ceiling yet, but rather, what his ceiling is. I think everyone agrees he will grow even more.

 

[LordKOTL]

Depends on how long Davidson thinks the rebuild will take.

If he’s going a five year build, ship Hagel out and get a ton for him and restock draft picks the way Tallon did.

If your thinking a three year, keep him but if somebody really wants him let them know it’s going to cost a lot considering his cap hit is ridiculous.

I’m listening on everyone not named Cat or Seth and if somebody offered the moon on Cat I’d think about it where as nobody is touching that Seth contract.

This entire team needs an enema. Get rid of all the old shit from Stan’s regime and shape the team the right way. And I’m sorry, but get tough Canadian and American kids in the later rounds instead of drafting euros who nine times out of ten never even come over any more or are lost playing on small rinks. The best decision this club made was kicking Stan and Kelly to the curb and this obsessiveness with skill over hockey IQ. You can teach a kid how to skate but you can’t teach intelligence, and this team just don’t fucking have that any more.

If the rebuild was indeed going to take only 3 years, by all means you keep Hagel.

Call me a cynical bastage (or a fargin icehole if you want), but I think even considering 5 years for the rebuild is very ambitious. The D-cupboards are just that bare and we got nothing. 5 years might work if we did have a #1 and a #2-3 D-man already being developed, but we don't even have that, and getting those pieces would likely mean both Hagel and Debrincat are gone to do so--if not any/every other asset we have that's worth more than fermented smegma.

And honestly, I'd be listening to offers for both El Gato and Seth Jones as well--even though I think Jones is unlikely. Debrincat's asking price has to be that much higher than Hagel's though, and Hagel should be commanding at least a can't miss-prospect in an area we lack.

I just think it would be ill-advised for the 'hawks to jump the gun on Hagel or Debrincat and moving them. The 'hawks don't have any other pieces that would really command a lot from the rest of the league--maybe Kane but he is still at 10.5M vs. ~6M for Debrincat and ~1.5M for Hagel. A loss in a trade moving them could set us back further than keeping them in my estimation. Hence, "can't miss".

 

[dbldrew]

Depends on how long Davidson thinks the rebuild will take.

If he’s going a five year build, ship Hagel out and get a ton for him and restock draft picks the way Tallon did.

If your thinking a three year, keep him but if somebody really wants him let them know it’s going to cost a lot considering his cap hit is ridiculous.

I’m listening on everyone not named Cat or Seth and if somebody offered the moon on Cat I’d think about it where as nobody is touching that Seth contract.

This entire team needs an enema. Get rid of all the old shit from Stan’s regime and shape the team the right way. And I’m sorry, but get tough Canadian and American kids in the later rounds instead of drafting euros who nine times out of ten never even come over any more or are lost playing on small rinks. The best decision this club made was kicking Stan and Kelly to the curb and this obsessiveness with skill over hockey IQ. You can teach a kid how to skate but you can’t teach intelligence, and this team just don’t fucking have that any more.

The Cat is older then Hagel so whatever logic you're using can be used to get rid of DeBrincat as well.. the logic for keeping the Cat can also be used for keeping Hagel. You either build around young talented players you have or trade everyone. I'm in the boat of keeping young talented players, creating more holes that you hope you can fill in the draft seems counter productive.

 

[Bigfoot]

Trade Murphy guy is completely worthless

 

[KBIB]

The Cat is older then Hagel so whatever logic you're using can be used to get rid of DeBrincat as well.. the logic for keeping the Cat can also be used for keeping Hagel. You either build around young talented players you have or trade everyone. I'm in the boat of keeping young talented players, creating more holes that you hope you can fill in the draft seems counter productive.

Again, it depends on how long Davidson is expecting a full rebuild to take.

If he’s looking at five plus years, then trade Cat and get as many assets that you can while his value is extremely high. I’m all for it if it means the shit getting carted out there right now doesn’t happen again.

The Hawks need to do whatever it takes to get Bedard. I’m sorry, but that’s the bridge between Matthews and McDavid and the next great player this league will see. If getting rid of everyone by the start of next year so this team is the drizzling shits, so be it. Cat, Hagel included. You find young players thru the draft who can play with Bedard and start all over again adding experienced pieces when you need to.

This team is at least five years away after the damage Blowman has caused. The Hawks prospect pool is a complete joke outside of one player and even that one player is better off staying in Rockford for another year. The other young player, Dach, was rushed and isn’t the player Blowman was having a jizz fest over on draft day and might be a career third line center at third overall when a stud defenseman in Seider is looking to be a future Norris caliber talent was taken after him.

Get rid of everything Blowman put his Vaseline hands on and move forward

 

[dbldrew]

Again, it depends on how long Davidson is expecting a full rebuild to take.

If he’s looking at five plus years, then trade Cat and get as many assets that you can while his value is extremely high. I’m all for it if it means the shit getting carted out there right now doesn’t happen again.

The Hawks need to do whatever it takes to get Bedard. I’m sorry, but that’s the bridge between Matthews and McDavid and the next great player this league will see. If getting rid of everyone by the start of next year so this team is the drizzling shits, so be it. Cat, Hagel included. You find young players thru the draft who can play with Bedard and start all over again adding experienced pieces when you need to.

This team is at least five years away after the damage Blowman has caused. The Hawks prospect pool is a complete joke outside of one player and even that one player is better off staying in Rockford for another year. The other young player, Dach, was rushed and isn’t the player Blowman was having a jizz fest over on draft day and might be a career third line center at third overall when a stud defenseman in Seider is looking to be a future Norris caliber talent was taken after him.

Get rid of everything Blowman put his Vaseline hands on and move forward

the point was you wanted to ship Hagel because of a 5 year build but keep the older Cat. That doesnt make much sense, if Hagel will be too old at 28 then where is the logic in keeping the Cat at 29? Your logic for trading players is in opposition for keeping other players. It would make much more sense to do the opposite of what you said, trade the Cat and keep Hagel, the return you would get for the Cat would be huge compared to Hagel, plus he is older.

Now again I'm not advocating trading either of them, they are both relatively young so build around both of them and even if it takes 5 years at 28 and 29 they should still have several years of high production. I mean Kane at 33 is still crushing it. Now Toews has dropped off for sure, but he had one of his best years ever when he was 31. So you keep the young talented players and build around them, if the rebuild goes quicker in 3 years then you are in a great position, but even if it takes longer you still will have several years of production from both of them.

At the very least you hold on to both for now and reevaluate in a few years, If you are still nowhere close then maybe you trade them. Not to mention if your goal is trading Hagel then having an extra year or 2 under his belt will increase his trade value if he continues to improve and produce.

 

[HSBOB]

I don't think anyone said Hagel has hit his ceiling yet, but rather, what his ceiling is. I think everyone agrees he will grow even more.

There was some speculation about how much better he can be and I understand that but like you,I see more upside.

 

[MassHavoc]

Soooo, that begs the question: what is his ceiling, what do you believe is his untapped potential and how much better can he get?

Do you consider it possible that this is as good as he can be?

Personally, Idk, I really like him but his current level of performance may be all he can ever be, and therefore he is at max trade value right now.

I think he gives what the team needs from more than just a stat sheet perspective. A lot of energy and such, including leadership from a young guy. Stuff you can't really get back in trade value. I think he still has room to grow in the stats department and I like that he's one of the few that has showed he can do it without relying on Kane. I don't know that he can be as good as Kane obviously, but he can be a letter on his sweater guy for time to come and someone to build a new mentality around.

 

[HSBOB]

I have no problem moving Cat and Hags because both deserve better than this and I'd love to watch both on a contender as I'll be watching less Black Hawk hockey.

The loss will be generational though as we watch D-Cat pot 500 in another Jersey and Hags develop into a solid two-way 25 goal scorer but neither will do much to change the team's fortunes regardless of their performance.....as we saw last night.

Who knows what the picks will bring and let me ask this.......what kind of odds would someone need if I were to bet Bedard would have stats @24 that pale in comparison to D-Cat's? Who's 10 months older than Hagel.

If 23 and 24 year old's are too old for our upcoming rebuild,then so am I!

 

[KBIB]

the point was you wanted to ship Hagel because of a 5 year build but keep the older Cat. That doesnt make much sense, if Hagel will be too old at 28 then where is the logic in keeping the Cat at 29? Your logic for trading players is in opposition for keeping other players. It would make much more sense to do the opposite of what you said, trade the Cat and keep Hagel, the return you would get for the Cat would be huge compared to Hagel, plus he is older.

Now again I'm not advocating trading either of them, they are both relatively young so build around both of them and even if it takes 5 years at 28 and 29 they should still have several years of high production. I mean Kane at 33 is still crushing it. Now Toews has dropped off for sure, but he had one of his best years ever when he was 31. So you keep the young talented players and build around them, if the rebuild goes quicker in 3 years then you are in a great position, but even if it takes longer you still will have several years of production from both of them.

At the very least you hold on to both for now and reevaluate in a few years, If you are still nowhere close then maybe you trade them. Not to mention if your goal is trading Hagel then having an extra year or 2 under his belt will increase his trade value if he continues to improve and produce.

Well, for starters, there’s a huge talent discrepancy between Cat and Hagel.

Cat is a 40 goals a year guy. Those don’t grow on trees. Hagel this year is rocking a 22% shooting percentage, which is Cat like and might be an outlier career year instead of something you should expect from him every year.

Everyone knew Cat was good his draft year, they didn’t take him because of his size. Hagel was a magic bean who’s playing on a team that doesn’t have depth who took advantage of it.

Throw in Hagel contract compared to Cats, and you are looking at somebody you can get a haul for, where as Cats contract, which is still relatively cheap, a team is going to have to do cap gymnastics to fit. Add in I think Cat is a FA when his contract runs out, his value is less while still very high ( I might be wrong on that, tho. He might still be RFA by a year and guaranteed a huge raise).

I am all for trading Cat. I don’t think teams that would want him have cap space to acquire him unless a bad contract comes back with years of dead cap space which the Hawks don’t need right now or in the future. And if he does get that RFA contract, he’s going to be untouchable like Seth, hence, don’t trade him.

 

[HSBOB]

Well, for starters, there’s a huge talent discrepancy between Cat and Hagel.

Cat is a 40 goals a year guy. Those don’t grow on trees. Hagel this year is rocking a 22% shooting percentage, which is Cat like and might be an outlier career year instead of something you should expect from him every year.

Everyone knew Cat was good his draft year, they didn’t take him because of his size. Hagel was a magic bean who’s playing on a team that doesn’t have depth who took advantage of it.

Throw in Hagel contract compared to Cats, and you are looking at somebody you can get a haul for, where as Cats contract, which is still relatively cheap, a team is going to have to do cap gymnastics to fit. Add in I think Cat is a FA when his contract runs out, his value is less while still very high ( I might be wrong on that, tho. He might still be RFA by a year and guaranteed a huge raise).

I am all for trading Cat. I don’t think teams that would want him have cap space to acquire him unless a bad contract comes back with years of dead cap space which the Hawks don’t need right now or in the future. And if he does get that RFA contract, he’s going to be untouchable like Seth, hence, don’t trade him.

D-Cat's still a RFA when his current deal expires and an incredible value at his present salary IMO. Teams find a way to add great players all the time,LV is always at the ceiling yet found a way to add Eichel. Do you really think the Hawks would have to eat years worth of dead cap space to move him? I think they'd clean up if they moved him............he's a game changer.

Hagel potted 41 his last season in the WHL and 19 in a Covid shortened AHL season,he also had a 30+ season up in Red Deer. I see more talent and effort than I see magic.

 

[KBIB]

D-Cat's still a RFA when his current deal expires and an incredible value at his present salary IMO. Teams find a way to add great players all the time,LV is always at the ceiling yet found a way to add Eichel. Do you really think the Hawks would have to eat years worth of dead cap space to move him? I think they's clean up if they moved him............he's a game changer.

Hagel potted 41 his last season in the WHL and 19 in a Covid shortened AHL season,he also had a 30+ season up in Red Deer. I see more talent and effort than I see magic.

Well, Vegas is getting raped right now with the ltir game they’re playing to get Eichel in game shape. Not everyone knew having a couple ltir contracts on the books was a good thing until Tampa pointed it out this year grabbing Seabrook. Certainly Blowman didn’t when he had 22 million in cap space that he didn’t use….

My point is, teams that would pay a lot for Cat don’t have the cap space, unless they want to ltir somebody til the playoffs unless some cap comes back. If somebody wants Cat, we shouldn’t have to take a dime back unless the team wants to add a pick or two more on top of Cats current value. You are 100% correct Cat is a game changer and because of that if we’re struck taking a contract that festers the cap a couple years from some has been there needs to be some value for it. Maybe I’m jaded because of the shit trades Blowman made, but I’m in believe it until I see it mode when it comes to trading away first line players.

As for Hagel, he was a fifth round pick. He’s a magic bean. He’s producing like a first rounder currently and I’m having a hard time believing teams passed this guy four times over in this day and age of amplified reliance on statistics. I see north of 60 ozs and a 22% shooting percentage, of which, on a deep team he’s nowhere near those numbers and is feasting on a bad Blackhawks team. If it was sustainable, he wouldn’t be out there in trade rumors. The player you saw last year is the player Hagel is, which still is a valuable piece.

Say what you want about King, but if this really is Hagel, then King is a boss at developing players or putting them in a position to succeed. Strome has been an offensive force these last couple of weeks under King while being sheltered at 70% ozs and playing with Kane.

As much as I would like a new coach with a defined system, you really have to think King might be the best choice if he’s playing people to their strengths.

 

[HSBOB]

Well, Vegas is getting raped right now with the ltir game they’re playing to get Eichel in game shape. Not everyone knew having a couple ltir contracts on the books was a good thing until Tampa pointed it out this year grabbing Seabrook. Certainly Blowman didn’t when he had 22 million in cap space that he didn’t use….

My point is, teams that would pay a lot for Cat don’t have the cap space, unless they want to ltir somebody til the playoffs unless some cap comes back. If somebody wants Cat, we shouldn’t have to take a dime back unless the team wants to add a pick or two more on top of Cats current value. You are 100% correct Cat is a game changer and because of that if we’re struck taking a contract that festers the cap a couple years from some has been there needs to be some value for it. Maybe I’m jaded because of the shit trades Blowman made, but I’m in believe it until I see it mode when it comes to trading away first line players.

As for Hagel, he was a fifth round pick. He’s a magic bean. He’s producing like a first rounder currently and I’m having a hard time believing teams passed this guy four times over in this day and age of amplified reliance on statistics. I see north of 60 ozs and a 22% shooting percentage, of which, on a deep team he’s nowhere near those numbers and is feasting on a bad Blackhawks team. If it was sustainable, he wouldn’t be out there in trade rumors. The player you saw last year is the player Hagel is, which still is a valuable piece.

Say what you want about King, but if this really is Hagel, then King is a boss at developing players or putting them in a position to succeed. Strome has been an offensive force these last couple of weeks under King while being sheltered at 70% ozs and playing with Kane.

As much as I would like a new coach with a defined system, you really have to think King might be the best choice if he’s playing people to their strengths.

I guess my point is,good teams find a way to add big contracts when they have to and some good teams like the Rags do have space to add another top player......even Kane as rumored. You have EVERY right to be gun shy about any trade after the DUMBASS era my friend,I understand that!

Hags had 41 his last year in Canadian major Jr's,19 in a Covid shorten AHL season and he's on a great pace this year.........why would his 22yro rookie season be the player he is...............he was just gettin' started man. The number of real good NHL players taken in later rounds or not at all is too long for me to list here.

King's okay but I dunno how much credit I give him,Hags has excelled at every level and Strome just needed TOI.

The Seabs trade/LTIR situation is another example of a real masterpiece by DUMBASS. One of the league's elite teams that struggles mightily with the cap can find a way to burry that deal every year and we couldn't? Now we get Johnson's 5M to deal with for two more full years,hope he can stay healthy enough to play 4th line for us.