Do Justin Fields' fumbles concern you?

[SiDe WaYs]

Yes they do concern me. But fuck it. We will see if he’s progressed by the end of the season

 

[sevvy]

The crux of it is, he holds onto the ball too long sometimes, and other times his oline is just BEAT as soon as the ball is snapped. What habits do we want him to develop? To look at his 1st read, and if it's not there, run for his life because he's about to get killed?

I don't think we do enough to compensate for how bad our line is while trying to block in the passing game. More blockers, faster developing routes, more playaction, running the ball more, getting Fields out of the pocket, etc. We just do him no favors.

He has plenty of stuff he needs to clean up. And the fumbles are a big one. Turnovers kill your chances of winning games. I just don't think this coaching staff is capable of developing him. I just hope he's tough enough mentally and physically to outlast them. Fuck.

 

[remydat]

The crux of it is, he holds onto the ball too long sometimes, and other times his oline is just BEAT as soon as the ball is snapped. What habits do we want him to develop? To look at his 1st read, and if it's not there, run for his life because he's about to get killed?

I don't think we do enough to compensate for how bad our line is while trying to block in the passing game. More blockers, faster developing routes, more playaction, running the ball more, getting Fields out of the pocket, etc. We just do him no favors.

He has plenty of stuff he needs to clean up. And the fumbles are a big one. Turnovers kill your chances of winning games. I just don't think this coaching staff is capable of developing him. I just hope he's tough enough mentally and physically to outlast them. Fuck.

We run play action around a league average amount of time ie 27%. The top play action teams run it about 10% more so you are talking maybe 2-3 more play action throws a game.

We also move the pocket quite a bit but good teams can more easily defend half of the field so that is not a long term solution if you do it too much.

The reality is unless you want him to be Garappolo he is going to have to learn to throw on time within the pocket. And it is better for him in the long run to throw on time in the pocket or bail as it will reinforce to him that everytime he bailed without throwing the ball is likely evidence that he missed or was too slow in his reads.

There is little value in just staying there and taking a sack. Next year if the line improves then you can help him develop sitting in the pocket waiting but by the time he finishes his drop he has to know where he is going with the ball. That is what the 3 step, 5 step and 7 step drops are for. It would be awesome if he could sit there scanning like Brady but those were not the cards dealt to him.

Further if you watch Brady, he knows when he has time to scan and he knows when the ball has to come out. Fields needs better pocket awareness period. He is too often not feeling the pressure until it is too late.

As a rookie Herbert was pressured 37% of the time compared to 38% for Fields. The difference is Herbert lead the NFL in passer rating when pressured because he knew when to get rid of the ball and when to run. That instinctive feel for the pocket and pressure is what Fields lacks.

 

[run and shoot]

His coaching sucks
His system sucks
His oline sucks
His weapons are blah

That said...he hasn't been very good and all the pre draft concerns are exposed despite most wanting to ignore because he's a rookie and good behind the mic about working hard

Slow decision making
Questionable pocket presence/recognition
Waiting for receivers to get open
Long delivery
Smallish hands possibly leading to fumbling issues

He can get better but needs alot of work and currently has the wrong support system.

His coaching sucks
His system sucks
His oline sucks
His weapons are blah

So none of this matters? Funny how this was the ok for cutler, a seasoned vet, but the "goal posts" get moved for JF. ?

 

[run and shoot]

I hear some ppl question JF's pocket awareness. My question is ....when has he had a pocket to throw from?
I'm gonna try to find some footage on Dan Fouts. They use to form a a " horseshoe pocket" around him.
And that's what's called a pocket

 

[airtime143]

An arm getting swatted during the throw isnt his fault... but he does have reaction issues.

He reminds me of Rivers when he got hit from behind, or early Tiki Barber (who eventually fixed it)

Some dudes clamp down of what they are holding when they are hit unaware- WRs and RBs especially.
Some people have a reflexive opening of the hands when they get hit. Training that away isnt easy.

incidentally, many people who reflexively open their hands when they get hit are also prone to trying to use their hands to break a fall, and that is super dangerous.

 

[Yogi]

Mustipher's ground ball snaps concern me more than Fields. At least 2 of the 6 fumbles counted against him so far this season have been because the snap was rolled to him.

 

[remydat]

I hear some ppl question JF's pocket awareness. My question is ....when has he had a pocket to throw from?
I'm gonna try to find some footage on Dan Fouts. They use to form a a " horseshoe pocket" around him.
And that's what's called a pocket

Umm having pocket awareness means knowing when you have a pocket and when you don't.

Also, Fields has been kept clean on 62% of his dropbacks. That is the majority.

 

[DeerBrinker34]

Mustipher's ground ball snaps concern me more than Fields. At least 2 of the 6 fumbles counted against him so far this season have been because the snap was rolled to him.

Mustipher has no business starting in the NFL. He is awful

 

[Bust]

He's played in 5.5 games and has 6 fumbles. He's been sacked 22 times.

The ball is going on the ground a little more than 25% of the time.

At this point, he knows his line cannot be trusted - maybe protect that ball a little better going forward?

He sucks. Chris Simms and Orlovsky were dead on with their original assessment of Fields. They were pressured to say good things a month later cause social media was hammering them with hate

I said 2 weeks ago when Fields replacement the FRESHMAN Ohio State QB already has 22 touchdown passes it's obvious Ohio State system inflates the stats of the qb. Hell, Day's system even managed to get Dwayne Haskins 50 td's in college.

 

[run and shoot]

I hear some ppl question JF's pocket awareness. My question is ....when has he had a pocket to throw from?
I'm gonna try to find some footage on Dan Fouts. They use to form a a " horseshoe pocket" around him.
And that's what's called a pocket

Umm having pocket awareness means knowing when you have a pocket and when you don't.

Also, Fields has been kept clean on 62% of his dropbacks. That is the majority.

I'd like a source for the 62%. However from what I see....Fields under duress 62% of the the time. I hardly never see a
pocket formulate. It almost reminds of how the DL use to pour through at the snap of the ball on Vick back in Atlanta.
Hence...Vick would take off.

Anyway.....

I'm not sure what Juan Castillo is teaching as a OL coach, but one can’t have a pocket without mastering the basics. ​

The OL is horrible in the following areas of basics as well as pass pro:
post foot and kick foot- continuous pass blocking technique
Stance and Start Footwork
Hand Positions
Fit and Finish Drive

 

[remydat]

I'd like a source for the 62%. However from what I see....Fields under duress 62% of the the time. I hardly never see a
pocket formulate. It almost reminds of how the DL use to pour through at the snap of the ball on Vick back in Atlanta.
Hence...Vick would take off.

Anyway.....

I'm not sure what Juan Castillo is teaching as a OL coach, but one can’t have a pocket without mastering the basics. ​

The OL is horrible in the following areas of basics as well as pass pro:
post foot and kick foot- continuous pass blocking technique
Stance and Start Footwork
Hand Positions
Fit and Finish Drive

 

[Rob Noxious]

No.

 

[greg23]

So none of this matters? Funny how this was the ok for cutler, a seasoned vet, but the "goal posts" get moved for JF. ?

It all matters and makes a difference....and he can also not be playing well.

Cutler was similar in that he held the ball a long time but had pocket awareness, and a shorter quicker release.

He needs help and coaching....none of which he really has right now.

 

[Novoitus]

No. They excite me.

 

[run and shoot]

Sure enough, Fields was pressured at will by the Bucs defense, where he was sacked four times in the first half and turned the ball over three times. With things already going poorly, head coach Matt Nagy decided to pull backup right tackle Lachavious Simmons and replace him with a backup guard Alex Bars.

View attachment 15148

Some that is cut off. I'll look for something that breaks down pressures, hurries and sacks. This would give a better idea
of "clean pocket".

But again....this doesn't negate what I see on the field and what I know about pass pro .
I hardly never see a pocket formulate. It almost reminds of how the DL use to pour through at the snap of the ball on Vick back in Atlanta.Hence...Vick would take off.

Again.....

I'm not sure what Juan Castillo is teaching as a OL coach, but one can’t have a pocket without mastering the basics. ​

The OL is horrible in the following areas of basics as well as pass pro:
post foot and kick foot- continuous pass blocking technique
Stance and Start Footwork
Hand Positions
Fit and Finish Drive
-----------------------------------

I've provided the OL basics that I don't see happening. I'll close this out with the quote and article below.

Sure enough, Fields was pressured at will by the Bucs defense, where he was sacked four times in the first half and turned the ball over three times. With things already going poorly, head coach Matt Nagy decided to pull backup right tackle Lachavious Simmons and replace him with a backup guard Alex Bars.

Link........

Bears, determined to ruin Justin Fields, make their offensive ...​

 

[run and shoot]

In the below article, I'd like you guys to look at the clips of Fields pass pro at OSU vs here. Note how a "clean pocket" looks.
And the blocking technique.

Matt Nagy Set Up Justin Fields to Fail - The Ringer​

 

[run and shoot]

So none of this matters? Funny how this was the ok for cutler, a seasoned vet, but the "goal posts" get moved for JF. ?

It all matters and makes a difference....and he can also not be playing well.

Cutler was similar in that he held the ball a long time but had pocket awareness, and a shorter quicker release.

He needs help and coaching....none of which he really has right now.

Cutler, IMO was just not that smart. He was un-coachable and never improved as a Qb. When Josh McCown got in there
he proved it wasn't everyone else's fault, but that jay was a bum.

He ( JF) needs help and coaching....none of which he really has right now.

Agreed !


Take a look at these clips of Fields when ya get a chance>>>>>#77

 

[remydat]

He had a clean pocket 62% of the time. If you are saying we can't expect him to do better in clean pockets unless things are ideal or perfect then we drafted the wrong guy. Real life is not perfect.

 

[run and shoot]

Fields has been sacked 22 times, the most of any quarterback in the NFL this season, even though he’s 30th in the NFL with just 131 pass attempts. Fields gets sacked 14.4 percent of the time he tries to pass; no other QB in the NFL is even at 10 percent.