Total rebuild? Or just a new coach and some moderate changes?

jooo83

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The offense is terrible and the majority of the top defensive players are 30 or above. Based on that a major rebuild is necessary. Despite our optimism for Fields, we don't know if we a QB yet. It's impossible to evaluate him since he plays for an incompetent head coach and beyond a bad Oline but that's not pretend he's been anything but underwhelming.
 

pinkfloydster

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So let's assume George does the right thing and fires Pace/Nagy at the end of the season.

Does the next GM go full nuclear and burn the thing to the ground?

Or is this team a new head coach and some moderate changes away from being good?

My personal take is a new GM burns this thing to the ground. 3-4 year rebuild. Quan stays and a few others on their rookie deals. Massive vet turnover. 2022 is epically bad. (think 3-14) Fields gets one year to prove himself with the new head coach and if not the Bears are back in the QB drafting game in 2023. New GM's typically want their guy and Fields won't be that guy. Now there's little chance of getting a new QB next year with no 1st. And it'd be stupid of course to not give him at least two years to prove himself. But this won't be like Pace being tied to Trubisky. If Fields isn't obviously the future after two years I think a new GM goes back to the well. Fields won't get 3-4 "prove it" years with a new GM.

Or do you think this team just needs a new coach and some smart moves to get right back in the Super Bowl hunt fast? I just don't see it. The defense is old as fuq. There are no playmakers outside of RB and one WR. Even the best Oline on the team aren't really that good IMO. I see nothing that makes me think yeah we're one or two years away. I see a team that needs to be gutted, stripped for parts and turned to glass.

You're going to have to use 2022 just to unwind Pace's Ponzi scheme. Rebuild starts in 2023 I hate to say.
 

hyatt151

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As much as I think you've gone overboard on crapping on fields I think this is fair.

And I absolutely think that this is a tear down and rebuild.

You also are 100% correct on a new GM not being tied to fields. But I would hope whatever GM they bring in is smart enough to realize that if Fields is someone they can use that it makes his job incredibly easy as long as he's worth his salt in the draft room and therefore wouldn't be eager to get rid of potentially most valuable piece if it can be salvaged.

I think you give fields a year or two under a new GM and a new head coach. They may end up wanting to draft one in year two anyway but the number one priority for this team is offensive line.

The top of the second round is the perfect place to go grab yourself a top end center. Build the line from the inside out and grab a guard in the third round. Grab another guard in the fourth round and also pick up a couple of guards and some tackles in the mid-range in free agency. Let everyone battle it out.

I don't think you go crazy in terms of wide receivers next year. I think instead you bring in some capable veterans and wait until you get that first round pick back the following year to draft yourself a number one wide receiver.

As for the offense, if you are going to see what you have in fields you have to put them gim a position to succeed. Your offensive coordinator should throw out any air raid or spread stuff with the exception of the occasional sprinkle. Lot of plays to the tight ends underneath and a lot of running that allows for an audible into play action from the same formation. And instead of 500 formations like Nagy runs, have a solid 10 to 15 formations that disguise whether you're going to run or pass.

Do that, along with fixing the offensive line, and we should see fields improve by leaps and bounds.
with all the draft capitol they will need to use on the OL and WR, will only allow the defense to get older and lousier, we are probably at least 5 years away from being a top contending type of team, and that's only if we get lucky, with Pace as the GM, that's unlikely to happen
 

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I honestly think that it's so hard to judge right now, especially the offense. You have to completely unfuck the offense by removing Nagy, and getting an actual coach and staff in the building to assess what we have. The injuries to Jenkins and Borom only made that worse. Because of course.

If a staff could come in and say we have 2 tackles, 2 guards, Mooney, Kmet, Horsted, Fields, 3 RBs, etc. and say we just need to go get a couple more WRs, a Center, depth on the OL, then we don't look quite as bad. But just like how people said in the past that it's hard to gauge what we have in Nagy because we don't have a QB, it's hard to gauge what we have on offense because of Nagy.
 

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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They definitely need a rebuild because of terrible cap management and squandering picks in trades. Bring in a new gm, purge the roster and take those cap hits in one year, and the following year load up and get this team rocking. Have to clean up pace mistakes first
 

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I honestly think that it's so hard to judge right now, especially the offense. You have to completely unfuck the offense by removing Nagy, and getting an actual coach and staff in the building to assess what we have. The injuries to Jenkins and Borom only made that worse. Because of course.

If a staff could come in and say we have 2 tackles, 2 guards, Mooney, Kmet, Horsted, Fields, 3 RBs, etc. and say we just need to go get a couple more WRs, a Center, depth on the OL, then we don't look quite as bad. But just like how people said in the past that it's hard to gauge what we have in Nagy because we don't have a QB, it's hard to gauge what we have on offense because of Nagy.

1000%
 

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So let's assume George does the right thing and fires Pace/Nagy at the end of the season.

Does the next GM go full nuclear and burn the thing to the ground?

Or is this team a new head coach and some moderate changes away from being good?

My personal take is a new GM burns this thing to the ground. 3-4 year rebuild. Quan stays and a few others on their rookie deals. Massive vet turnover. 2022 is epically bad. (think 3-14) Fields gets one year to prove himself with the new head coach and if not the Bears are back in the QB drafting game in 2023. New GM's typically want their guy and Fields won't be that guy. Now there's little chance of getting a new QB next year with no 1st. And it'd be stupid of course to not give him at least two years to prove himself. But this won't be like Pace being tied to Trubisky. If Fields isn't obviously the future after two years I think a new GM goes back to the well. Fields won't get 3-4 "prove it" years with a new GM.

Or do you think this team just needs a new coach and some smart moves to get right back in the Super Bowl hunt fast? I just don't see it. The defense is old as fuq. There are no playmakers outside of RB and one WR. Even the best Oline on the team aren't really that good IMO. I see nothing that makes me think yeah we're one or two years away. I see a team that needs to be gutted, stripped for parts and turned to glass.

what is there really to burn to the ground?
 

Collins77

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We don't have anything to blow up except the defense. I dont see us in contention for the Superbowl before the D gets old. Id say trade whoever we can, and build from yhe inside out like someone earlier mentioned.
 

Collins77

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Whatever we do protecting the QB has to be biggest priority.
 

Midwaymonster75

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So let's assume George does the right thing and fires Pace/Nagy at the end of the season.

Does the next GM go full nuclear and burn the thing to the ground?

Or is this team a new head coach and some moderate changes away from being good?

My personal take is a new GM burns this thing to the ground. 3-4 year rebuild. Quan stays and a few others on their rookie deals. Massive vet turnover. 2022 is epically bad. (think 3-14) Fields gets one year to prove himself with the new head coach and if not the Bears are back in the QB drafting game in 2023. New GM's typically want their guy and Fields won't be that guy. Now there's little chance of getting a new QB next year with no 1st. And it'd be stupid of course to not give him at least two years to prove himself. But this won't be like Pace being tied to Trubisky. If Fields isn't obviously the future after two years I think a new GM goes back to the well. Fields won't get 3-4 "prove it" years with a new GM.

Or do you think this team just needs a new coach and some smart moves to get right back in the Super Bowl hunt fast? I just don't see it. The defense is old as fuq. There are no playmakers outside of RB and one WR. Even the best Oline on the team aren't really that good IMO. I see nothing that makes me think yeah we're one or two years away. I see a team that needs to be gutted, stripped for parts and turned to glass.
I think you get the best coaching staff you can get and do the best you can with the personnel you have and through the draft for two years. If we still suck you look at what works and what isnt and build from there.
 

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Whatever we do protecting the QB has to be biggest priority.
If J.Fields isn't all fucked up in the head after this year of playing behind this o-line.

This could be Justin after this year...........
bPg5ornUHBvlONz7ZBzyQv_W4HhYStmrUKD7eKFfAjw.gif
 

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You retool. Fields is in his 5 year window with his rookie contract. Next year he learns a new system and erases any bad habits he has from Nagy. 2023 you shoot for the playoffs, 2024 you go for a deep playoff run. With the huge cap increases that are coming the next two seasons, this is doable, of course with the right GM and coach
 

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So let's assume George does the right thing and fires Pace/Nagy at the end of the season.

Does the next GM go full nuclear and burn the thing to the ground?

Or is this team a new head coach and some moderate changes away from being good?

My personal take is a new GM burns this thing to the ground. 3-4 year rebuild. Quan stays and a few others on their rookie deals. Massive vet turnover. 2022 is epically bad. (think 3-14) Fields gets one year to prove himself with the new head coach and if not the Bears are back in the QB drafting game in 2023. New GM's typically want their guy and Fields won't be that guy. Now there's little chance of getting a new QB next year with no 1st. And it'd be stupid of course to not give him at least two years to prove himself. But this won't be like Pace being tied to Trubisky. If Fields isn't obviously the future after two years I think a new GM goes back to the well. Fields won't get 3-4 "prove it" years with a new GM.

Or do you think this team just needs a new coach and some smart moves to get right back in the Super Bowl hunt fast? I just don't see it. The defense is old as fuq. There are no playmakers outside of RB and one WR. Even the best Oline on the team aren't really that good IMO. I see nothing that makes me think yeah we're one or two years away. I see a team that needs to be gutted, stripped for parts and turned to glass.

1) The right thing is to fire Pace/Nagy now.

2) Burn most of it down. Build around a couple of pieces: Fields, RBs, Mooney, Daniels, Whitehair, Gipson, Roquan, J. Johnson
 

bearsfan1977

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A total rebuild implies there are no pieces at all that you can build around. While they won’t win the SB, this team does have some talent.

1. Get a real HC. Daboll, Roman, whoever so long as they are competent. Surround him with a competent staff. Jury is still out on Desai. Get a proven and hopefully younger OC. Bringing in a supporting staff is just as important as the HC and is often overlooked.

2. Players to keep: J Johnson, Quan, Caleb Johnson (I think he needs a shot-instinct tells me he can be very good), Mack or Quinn, Nichols, Tonga, Daniels, Jenkins, Borom, Kmet, Mooney, Monty, Herbert, Fields.

3. Players to shop: Arob obviously before 11/2, Eddie Jackson, Goldman, Quinn or Mack (free up cap-1 of those salaries needs to go to OL), Whitehair (or post 6/1 cut), Foles (please).

4. Invest heavily in the OL. Draft or sign a real C. Go after a proven LT like Armstead. Draft a G early. Jenkins at RT with Borom the swing T.

5. Godwin or another high quality FA WR.

So not a total rebuild, but these steps should at least put them on a path for success.
 

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I'm of the belief that 'going nuclear' doesn't work. You have to systematically address the issues. Start with the top 3 for 2022.

1. Replace the HC

2. You cannot count on Jenkins to play LT next year, or it will be this year all over again. Draft a real center with the 2nd round pick, pay for an LT in FA. Let Borom, Jenkins, and Ifedi battle it out for RT.

3. Tag ARob again. You won't find a replacement for him in the 3rd round....probably not the 2nd either. Work on replacing him in 2023 when we have more picks.
This. Get a real LT and let Borom/Jenkins right out RT. If you are lucky one can slide inside and work to replace Whitehair. To count on both working out to replace the tackle position is ludicrous.
 

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I remember years ago, someone quoted Virginia as saying that one of her main concerns about a HC is that he be a good Christian.

Now, I am a Christian ( don't know how good of a one), but what difference does it make what religion, if any, fits in to a persons ability to coach football?

That one left me scratching my head.
 

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If you're serious about making this team an offensive one with an actual identity--tear it down and start from scratch.

Fields is here, now get a fucking offensive line, because once again, the cart comes before the horse with Pace and in Nagy's hands is a recipe for being the laughing stock on TV locally and nationally. Mustipher has to go or be depth, like the guy who can start at the end of the season and look okay because he's fresh and everybody else isn't. Daniels can go too, the guy's just too up and down and this is a contract year for him, and right now he's not worth big money or even mid money. Ifedi is overpaid and can hit the road too. Teven Jenkins is due back, and Whitehair is still under contract for another 2-3 more years, so you need 3 starters. If Jenkins is Chris Williams 2.0 you'll need 4 and Ryan Pace will never have a job above scout again in this league.

A 5th round pick who's presently injured, Borom--can try to earn a spot, won't complain if he does, and also wont be shocked when a 5th round OL who has enormous expectations gets cut because Ryan Pace is a clown who put himself in a position to need a 5th rounder to click because he had only 2 picks prior to said 5th rounder.
 

hyatt151

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gonna be hard to pick up a quality GM hire considering our lack of draft capitol and cap space especially if a new GM determines that a rebuild is in order
 

Rise

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New coach, youth movement besides Quinn/Mack, invest in oline like they have always invested in dline. Pay Roquon, bring back olgetree, draft wr. Win games.

so that means say goodbye to Hicks, Graham, trevathon, ARob for sure.

flush mustipher down the toilet.
 

bearsfan1977

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New coach, youth movement besides Quinn/Mack, invest in oline like they have always invested in dline. Pay Roquon, bring back olgetree, draft wr. Win games.

so that means say goodbye to Hicks, Graham, trevathon, ARob for sure.

flush mustipher down the toilet.
Can’t really disagree with any of that. Mustipher can stay…as a backup which is what he is-good depth.

Sign/draft C, G and LT.
 

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