Aaron Rodgers Elite Status?

[ClydeLee]

I will admit before all of this, Aaron Rodgers is very productive in statical terms and effective, but I am questioning does that allow him to be considered as elite and should he be thought of as a top 5 QB.

All he has done is been effective as a good all game long QB but he isn't a game winner even though he has the defense this and last year. Any big game he finds a way to not have the ball to win it. A fumble isn't his fault but if he wants to be elite he has to will his team to play the way they need to get a game winning drive. He winds up being too automatic and efficient to win. He racks up the yards due to the penalties and sacks he does have a big effect of raking up because he holds the ball too long... His WR fumbled... well the play before he threw a terrible intentional grounding pass.. if the WR truly did break wrong it's the QBs job to be on page with his players to go run the right routes.

Somehow he is accredited to all that success but all his big game losses are taken away from him because of excuses. It wasn't his fault he fumbled against Arizona because his facemask was grabbed after. Or his sacks aren't his fault at all he has a bad line.. Expectations are too much because of Favre.. He is gift wrapped all the heat by the media for no reason. He has done nothing spectacular in his career except play efficient from game to game.

Joe Montana was quoted before something like the following, QBs are paid money to play on 3rd downs and the end of 4th quarters or OT. Rodgers hasn't done much anything in those 4th quarters yet to be considered elite.

There's a player like Ben Rothlesberger who is hardly as consistent or effective throughout the game, but he constantly has had it in him to come up big on winning drives and play elite in the final 2 minutes of a half and the 4th quarter. That's how an elite QB is a winning QB. He didn't let having a bad below average line stop him from winning a super bowl with that method.

Trying to look it up. I know Rodgers was around 0-6 in 2008 in attempted game winning or tying come from behind final 5ish minutes of 4th quarters. Last year it looks like he had two, and both were against the Bears.(the second one they were tied) The other games they were either leading by 3 points or shortly in that time in games won or several others he had the chance to make it happened, but he lost - Vikings loss and Bengals or other game or so. He did tie the playoff game against Arizona... yet coughs up the ball and losses right as the ball is his to have.

So he is about 1 1/2-10 in key moments. Why exactly is he elite. Why did NFL players elite status change and go the way of baseball and be all about statistical success. Before I thought elite QB were players that had consistent game to game success, Made players around them greater, and took games upon themselves to be won in the final moments.

All out of that I've seen Rodgers just be consistent and nothing else special or elite.

 

[Veritas]

Rodgers is a top 5 quarterback, I don't care what statistics you bring up on him. I watch NFL games and evaluate talent from what I see, Rodgers was top 5 last season and he is still a top 5 quarterback this season. In his second season as a starter he nearly led his team to an NFC Title appearance, but his defense let him down. Not to mention his statistics in his first two seasons as a starter are ridiculous.

 

[JustinTCB]

Obviously I'm biased, but I feel like you are a little off base here.

I'll admit that I have questions about Rodgers ability in big games, and at the end of games. He's made a habit out of playing out of control in the first half of big games, especially against the Vikings last season and the Cardinals in the playoffs.

His Arizona turnover in the playoffs was a result of an illegal facemask, something that the official ignored (the same ref ignored the same thing happen to Cutler this year). When an illegal play occurs, a lot of time turnovers happen that shouldn't (see Jay Cutler's multiple interceptions last night).

I think as a quarterback, Rodgers is certainly top 5. You saw last night his ability to sell play fakes despite no running game, ability to hit receivers all over the field, and only had a handful of inaccurate throws. He excels on third down, has shown a remarkable ability to create with his legs, which comes in handy with the O-Line he has.

When you look at the current quarterbacks in the league, Manning, Brees, and Brady are clearly ahead of Rodgers. Outside of that though, I think Rodgers is probably right there.

If his "flaw" as a quarterback is "he's just efficient every single week" then he's one hell of a player. He's 26, becoming the 4th quarter comeback QB can take time, he is already ahead of the curve in many other areas.

Manning had a reputation as a choke artist for the first half of his career, Brees was shipped out of town, and now they are the two best comeback/protect a lead in the 4th quarter QBs around.

 

[waldo7239117]

Rodgers is a top 5 QB, so I think he's elite.

 

[ClydeLee]

If he is TOP 5 or not, what does that equate to? Elite QBs don't have to be a certain number. Nobody is saying you can only have 5 elite and just 5 elite. This isn't the Elite 11 club for an actual base.

You could have less or more at any given time in the NFL... I'd say: Manning, Brees, Brady, Roth are the only QBs who truly do it all. They play consistently, lift up the level of players around them or play good even when others around them suck, and they win games down the stretch in the 4th quarter when they need too.

Last year you coulda said Warner and Favre... Just because Warner retired and Favre is old, hurt, lacking talent. It's true you and I also would say Rodgers is now the 5th best it doesn't mean he is as deserving as those other players praise. For several years people were saying just Manning and Brady were elite and Palmer and decling Favre were a step below.. suddenly now you have top 5 list of 5 elite QBs is how it is determined and there's no basis for that.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I think it's hard to not say he's an elite quarterback...you look at consistency,completion%,yards,TDs,and all the other statistics....if you don't think he's elite then you must explain what QBs you would take ahead of him...right now there are a very select few i would take.

Arguably Rodgers is one of the most consistent in the game. He takes alot of hits(especially last year with the O line problems) yet he never has problems producing yards. He has quite a bit of confidence in his game and he shows it well.

Honestly I never thought Rodgers could be a viable replacement for Favre however I was proven wrong.

 

[trustmuse]

If Aaron Rodgers isn't an elite and top five quarterback in the NFL than who is? Big game Tony Romo? Eli Manning? Philip Rivers? Jay Cutler? Mark Sanchez?

By all rights last night Rodgers should have won that football game. The Packers did everything imaginable to blow that game and did. Had Morgan Burnett not tackled Earl Bennett that pass is still intercepted by Nick Collins and the ball is Rodgers to win with.

I was not an Aaron Rodgers advocate a couple of years ago, but my god he is the most successful passer the game has seen in his first years as a starter in who knows how long. I'd have to look up his stats, but he may have better numbers than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning out of the gate. If not I bet he's damn close.

No one has mentioned his red zone efficiency either. Rodgers has not thrown an interception in the endzone since his first game as a starter and his passer rating in the redzone is over 100. What more could you possibly ask for out of your quarterback?

Rodgers was let down by the team around him both last night and in Arizona. I would gladly have him lead my team at any point in the game, at any point in the season over every other quarterback in the NFL at the moment, save Peyton Manning. As of right now I would say Rodgers' ability to win is just the same as Tom Brady's over the last couple of years.

Roethlisberger may have won in the past, but so did Trent Dilfer. Roethlisberger is not an elite quarterback, especially when he isn't smart enough to keep himself on the field because he was dumb enough to "rape" a girl. If you want to throw leadership into that mix Roethlisberger kind of threw that out the window this offseason.

 

[Scoot26]

Rodgers is a top 5 quarterback, I don't care what statistics you bring up on him. I watch NFL games and evaluate talent from what I see, Rodgers was top 5 last season and he is still a top 5 quarterback this season. In his second season as a starter he nearly led his team to an NFC Title appearance, but his defense let him down. Not to mention his statistics in his first two seasons as a starter are ridiculous.

The next round would ahve been the divisional round..not the NFC Title game.


That beign said, I do think Rodgers is a top 5 quarterback and is probably #5 on that list.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Aaron Rodgers is obviously an elite QB, and was last season too.

He has the highest QB rating of all-time... and last season the GB O-line was horrible.

The only two guys who I'd definitely take ahead of him are Peyton Manning and Drew Brees.

 

[ClydeLee]

If Aaron Rodgers isn't an elite and top five quarterback in the NFL than who is? Big game Tony Romo? Eli Manning? Philip Rivers? Jay Cutler? Mark Sanchez?

By all rights last night Rodgers should have won that football game. The Packers did everything imaginable to blow that game and did. Had Morgan Burnett not tackled Earl Bennett that pass is still intercepted by Nick Collins and the ball is Rodgers to win with.

I was not an Aaron Rodgers advocate a couple of years ago, but my god he is the most successful passer the game has seen in his first years as a starter in who knows how long. I'd have to look up his stats, but he may have better numbers than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning out of the gate. If not I bet he's damn close.

No one has mentioned his red zone efficiency either. Rodgers has not thrown an interception in the endzone since his first game as a starter and his passer rating in the redzone is over 100. What more could you possibly ask for out of your quarterback?

Rodgers was let down by the team around him both last night and in Arizona. I would gladly have him lead my team at any point in the game, at any point in the season over every other quarterback in the NFL at the moment, save Peyton Manning. As of right now I would say Rodgers' ability to win is just the same as Tom Brady's over the last couple of years.

Roethlisberger may have won in the past, but so did Trent Dilfer. Roethlisberger is not an elite quarterback, especially when he isn't smart enough to keep himself on the field because he was dumb enough to "rape" a girl. If you want to throw leadership into that mix Roethlisberger kind of threw that out the window this offseason.

For starters what a person does off the field isn't making him not elite if he is playing when it counts on the field. I can't stand Ben but he makes plays that has won a lot of games when the he had too and the team had too. I put leadership when it matters on the line, on the field at the biggest moments of the game.

People need to stop over-attributing success and devaluing failure to a person. Particularly the QB. Both levels should be considered on equal ground. Rodgers team didn't let him down, they were able to tie the game and that was a success to the team and him in that playoff game... but other people need to stop being blamed for his occurrences. On the OT Fumble the ball came out clearly before any illegal contact was made. The refs job is to instantly watch a ball if it is fumbled in the backfield. You can and should blame Rodgers for that, also if you want to blame anyone else blame the NFLs rule system or the Ref for not having a better peripheral vision at that moment.

Yes redzone and INT wise he is extremely efficient but more can you ask.. score when your team needs it in the end, that's the biggest factor you should put on any QB. You haven't seen enough of him lifting the team, making players better, and making drives to win the close games when it counts.

He is good at consistency but another big misconception constantly said is how he takes so many sacks and hits BUT puts up great yards and completion percentage... those way into him. He does do great jobs of making it up a lot but not enough to be winning tough games it would seem. He hold onto the ball a way lot more than he should with the talent he has out there. He takes those sacks too much which is a negative but that puts them having to make up the yards but still not being able to always make up for it. These are very overlooked analytical connections.

I'm not saying Rodgers isn't a good QB and doesn't have a great ability to get better and be as great like some named Steve Young think he is(Who also started his Starting career this great, they both did because they were playing on great teams with great weapons after numerous years learning from watching HOF QBs)

Right now, Rodgers doesn't do enough to be credited with all the hype. Suddenly when Brees came into everyones picture people wanted to start saying there is a certain amount of elite QBs, that wasn't ever the case before and makes no sense to see it that way.

In 06-07. The consensus was Manning-Brady were elite. Palmer was in the next tier near that level but the injury took a toll on him.. then you had Roth, Favre, Brees, etc.

Now suddenly if your the top 5 Qbs, that means elite to some of you... what basis is that on. Saying your at a certain greatness level is not judged by if your the # of top best. There isn't any reason for that distinction. Rodgers could be elite but until he makes his teamates(Which includes that line) look better and can lead them to win at key times doing so idk how you can say he is the same as Brees or Manning or Roth when it counts in NFL Games.

BTW This is the same similar discussion which is overused to #1 WR. It has no distinct meaning and shouldn't be constantly used by fans and media because it means different things to different people. It could mean the absolute sole best WR, the top 3/5(which makes no sense but people say it,) the elite wrs, any teams go to guy, any teams top starting WR... People debate that over and over and constantly ignore that there are multiple definitions to meanings and terms.. and a rating system doesn't equal you to go over the hump of that terms ability range.

 

[waldo7239117]

My Top 5 QB's, in no paticular order:

P Manning
D Brees
T Brady
M Schaub
A Rodgers

 

[Scoot26]

My Top 5 QB's, in no paticular order:

P Manning
D Brees
T Brady
M Schaub
A Rodgers

I think Rothlisberger is a top 5 QB instead of Schaub..Other than that..agree.

 

[waldo7239117]

I think Rothlisberger is a top 5 QB instead of Schaub..Other than that..agree.

If the Steelers keep winning and Ben's susp is over, he probably won't even come back at the starter, And, that will not surprise me at all.

 

[Scoot26]

If the Steelers keep winning and Ben's susp is over, he probably won't even come back at the starter, And, that will not surprise me at all.

You don't think he'll start right away?

 

[TopekaRoy]

Ben will start right away. He may not be the starter at the end of the season ...

Back on topic.

To misquote Bill Clinton, "It depends on what your definition of 'elite' is."

There is no question that Rodgers is a great QB. Top 5 or very nearly so anyway. But if he is not elite now, I think he would be with a better O-line and a little better run game. Looking at what he did to the Bears Monday night, there is no question that he has the talent to be an elite QB.

I'll just say he is not an "elite" QB, yet, but he could be, can be, and probably will be an elite QB soon.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Ben R. is considered "elite" by some because of his decent stats but mainly his two super bowl rings and trips to the playoffs which means he is a "proven winner" although compared to rodgers statistically big ben is not as good a QB....

elite can take many meanings..in the case that makes big ben elite over rodgers has to do with being able to win the games that matter most and rodgers hasnt necessarily done that although there can be an arguement made that Ben has had a better team around him to work on(ESPECIALLY the defense) and Rodgers had to work with a team that had serious O line problems and also having to replace Favre on "shaky terms"

Do I think Rodgers is elite? Yes...but that's just my connotation of it. It's hard for me to find QB's that put up better numbers and win more...there are a select few...also keep in mind Rodgers is a fairly young QB

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Ben will start right away. He may not be the starter at the end of the season ...

Back on topic.

To misquote Bill Clinton, "It depends on what your definition of 'elite' is."

There is no question that Rodgers is a great QB. Top 5 or very nearly so anyway. But if he is not elite now, I think he would be with a better O-line and a little better run game. Looking at what he did to the Bears Monday night, there is no question that he has the talent to be an elite QB.

I'll just say he is not an "elite" QB, yet, but he could be, can be, and probably will be an elite QB soon.

haha. the "is" quote.

 

[regoob2]

I dont think he's elite. To me Peyton is on another level by himself. Then I put Brees and Brady in a lower class that could be considered elite. Rodgers is just below that. Rodgers is a great QB who can become elite but he's not there yet. He didnt have his best game against us though. He's to quick to check it down.