Advanced Stats say maybe the Bears shouldn’t give in to Roquan

[Canth]

More than that its flexibility >>> commitments at this point in the rebuild. Locking up twenty million a year in a non-premium position is not something they are going to do unless it was for a really special player. Roquan is good and all, but Fred Warner he is not.

Classic case of the guy on the winning team getting more attention while the other guy gets overlooked:

Fred Warner stats:


Roquan stats:


Roquan has more INTs, sacks, tackles, and TFLs. The sacks and the TFLs difference is not insignificant. Fred has been better about forcing fumbles and a few more PDs.

Roquan has generally been a pretty effective blitzer. I have no idea on Warner as I don't see many 49ers games.

They are both great linebackers. Warner already got paid, I figure Roquan will too for similar numbers.

 

[Canth]

I shouldn't have to tell you this, but a MLB or ILB isn't gonna generally rack up a bunch of sacks.

Also, he is racking up TFLs. Sure, it's a not a sack because it wasn't the qb. It was still a tackle behind the line of scrimmage and loss of a down. Essentially, he sacked the ball carrier...a lot. It's literally just as effective as a sack.

 

[Bust]

has roquan ever caused a fumble via hit or stripped the ball like urlacher loved to do?

if he wants a 100 million dollar deal. PASS!

 

[MikeDitkaPolishSausage]

Poles has no ties to him.

You are right he doesn’t. Difference between Smith and Jenkins is that Smith is a proven LB and one of the best in the league at his position.

 

[MikeDitkaPolishSausage]

Again.......no ties.

You are right. Difference between Johnson and Jenkins is that Johnson has proven he can play in the league and Jenkins hasn’t.

 

[mecha]

@Myk he's not Urlacher or Singletary because he's only played in a 3-4, not 4-3. different roles.

which owes to the point of holding off on paying him until you see if he'll excel in a 4-3. I'm sure he will. I'm actually excited most at the prospect of them using a proper defensive scheme again. spare me the bullshit about the 3-4's flexibility, this team has been shit on defense since Fangio left. and I think it was fucking stupid to retool the personnel for him to walk later, but in defense of the Bears that cabinet was quite bare. it was a risk worth taking.

also, fuck Adam Gase on general principle while I'm on the subject.

 

[Myk]

Well, if you wanna be a stupid motherfucker, by all means…

You're the idiot who excuses Smith by claiming Urlacher didn't get sacks.
He's not the leader Urlacher was and he doesn't produce anything close to worthy of demanding top dollar like Urlacher did. If he did the Bears would pay him like they did Urlacher.
And you're the idiot acting like anyone is saying he's bad when that's not the problem. The problem is he wants all the money for himself when he's not producing to justify that. If he was we'd still have Nagy and Trubisky and we'd be loving it.
If he wanted paid all he had to do was win his first 4 years. I don't care what kind of excuses you want to offer that's the fact. He took the pick, he took the position, he took the pay, he did not win. That means no pay until he does win.

@Myk he's not Urlacher or Singletary because he's only played in a 3-4, not 4-3. different roles.

which owes to the point of holding off on paying him until you see if he'll excel in a 4-3. I'm sure he will. I'm actually excited most at the prospect of them using a proper defensive scheme again. spare me the bullshit about the 3-4's flexibility, this team has been shit on defense since Fangio left. and I think it was fucking stupid to retool the personnel for him to walk later, but in defense of the Bears that cabinet was quite bare. it was a risk worth taking.

also, fuck Adam Gase on general principle while I'm on the subject.

That at least makes some sense but it still boils down to his role has not been one that should demand top dollar. If he's demanding payment before the fact let someone else pay to see.
We already paid him top dollar to not produce he can get by and let the team build.

 

[FozzyBear]

rumors are he holding out to become the highest paid linebacker. That's 20 million per season

Im all for the bears rewarding home grown talent, especially on a 1st rounder. However, 20 mil for a weakside lber, is a bit rich. LBers that arent primary rush backers like TJ Watt, are almost RB disposable. Another exception is probably MLB that can drop back in that deep shell. Other than that, draft a 5th rounder and you have a reactionary tackling machine with future CTE written all over them.

Is Roquan Derrick Brooks? Im still not paying Brooks 20 mil per.

Id use that 20 mil towards Quenton Nelson if he hits the market next FA.

 

[Wild_x_Card]

You're the idiot who excuses Smith by claiming Urlacher didn't get sacks.
He's not the leader Urlacher was and he doesn't produce anything close to worthy of demanding top dollar like Urlacher did. If he did the Bears would pay him like they did Urlacher.
And you're the idiot acting like anyone is saying he's bad when that's not the problem. The problem is he wants all the money for himself when he's not producing to justify that. If he was we'd still have Nagy and Trubisky and we'd be loving it.
If he wanted paid all he had to do was win his first 4 years. I don't care what kind of excuses you want to offer that's the fact. He took the pick, he took the position, he took the pay, he did not win. That means no pay until he does win.





That at least makes some sense but it still boils down to his role has not been one that should demand top dollar. If he's demanding payment before the fact let someone else pay to see.
We already paid him top dollar to not produce he can get by and let the team build.

Holy. Shit. This is some next level drivel.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I think that fits into what I've seen over his time so far - I don't believe he is elite. He is a pretty good linebacker and he'd be hard, but not impossible to replace. Unfortunately, the current state of affairs in the NFL is that players are getting paid. I don't view Kyler Murray as some type of 'wow' QB, but 'pay the man' is where things are currently at. If the Bears revert to the old 'George Halas throws nickels around like they're manhole covers' you'll ultimately pay a price as a franchise that could have quite an impact if you ever want to hoist the Lombardi and throw it from luxury yacht to luxury yacht.

Finding an undersized speed backer who can stay on the field is difficult.

150 tackles per year does to linebackers what 300 carries does to running backs.

I think you explore sign and trades as much as possible, potentially try to carry him on light work to the trade deadline to get more.

We aren’t winning this year or next, and I could make a long list of backers who couldn’t be worth the big bucks they earned.

I wish backers and running backs and lineman got even bigger performance bonuses for snaps and contact at end of year, it’s only fair. TEs should get it for blocking snaps.

 

[remydat]

There is an argument for paying Quan 20m and there is an argument not to. Whichever side you land on the larger point remains. Quan has done everything you could ask for including being here this whole offseason. Even now he is reportedly working with the players while he waits for a new contract.

So do right by the guy. Either work something out or trade him. Again that is what good orgs do for players of his caliber. Leonars, Warer, Mosely, Deebo, Metcalf, Diontae got paid by their teams. Adams, Hill, AJ got traded to teams that would pay them.

You dont let a guy of Quan's caliber go into the season with this unresolved unless he is ok with it which he obviously isnt. So there comes a point in TC where Bears need to trade him IMO if this isnt going to get done.

 

[dbldrew]

Also, he is racking up TFLs. Sure, it's a not a sack because it wasn't the qb. It was still a tackle behind the line of scrimmage and loss of a down. Essentially, he sacked the ball carrier...a lot. It's literally just as effective as a sack.

yes TFL are great, but hitting the QB is better, if you're getting to the QB you are speeding up his internal clock forcing him to not fully go though his reads, force throws, throw early etc. Tackling a RB or WR behind the line is good but it doesn't carry the same impact to the game that it does to pressuring a QB.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Jaylon Johnson just said he was a leader and he was one of the few vets that attended the voluntary practices.



Did I need to explain that culture and winning are 2 different things?

Matt Eberflus sets high bar for Roquan Smith

Matt Eberflus was a linebackers coach for nine years, so the spotlight will shine brightly on the position group.

www.nbcsports.com

The Bears disagree with you.

Talk is cheap. We will know what the Bears really think by if they pay him or not.

 

[Montucky]

There is an argument for paying Quan 20m and there is an argument not to. Whichever side you land on the larger point remains. Quan has done everything you could ask for including being here this whole offseason. Even now he is reportedly working with the players while he waits for a new contract.

So do right by the guy. Either work something out or trade him. Again that is what good orgs do for players of his caliber. Leonars, Warer, Mosely, Deebo, Metcalf, Diontae got paid by their teams. Adams, Hill, AJ got traded to teams that would pay them.

You dont let a guy of Quan's caliber go into the season with this unresolved unless he is ok with it which he obviously isnt. So there comes a point in TC where Bears need to trade him IMO if this isnt going to get done.

The problem with this is I don't think anyone really wants to pay Roquan Smith twenty million a year. And those that are maybe willing are not going to part with a draft pick on top of all the money. Bears are not going to accept a third or less for Smith, that's what he is worth in the compensatory formula.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

So I was looking through some too 100 lists the other day and never saw Quan. I saw Quinn.

Is it possible that Bears fans are overrating him a bit? I mean he’s obviously a very good player but maybe he’s just that…. Very good…. But not GREAT? Honestly I don’t know. I’d certainly like to see more turnovers created. But I don’t get to watch enough other teams to know for sure.

 

[SlickWilly]

Also, he is racking up TFLs. Sure, it's a not a sack because it wasn't the qb. It was still a tackle behind the line of scrimmage and loss of a down. Essentially, he sacked the ball carrier...a lot. It's literally just as effective as a sack.

Easy with that logic around here.

 

[dabears70]

You are right he doesn’t. Difference between Smith and Jenkins is that Smith is a proven LB and one of the best in the league at his position.

You are right. Difference between Johnson and Jenkins is that Johnson has proven he can play in the league and Jenkins hasn’t.

Calm down now, i was just having some fun with you. Jenkins is an unproven high 2nd round pick that has a ton of talent to be a long time starting o-lineman in the NFL though and hasn't had the field time to show us just how good he can be. Just sayin.

 

[dabears70]

There is an argument for paying Quan 20m and there is an argument not to. Whichever side you land on the larger point remains. Quan has done everything you could ask for including being here this whole offseason. Even now he is reportedly working with the players while he waits for a new contract.

So do right by the guy. Either work something out or trade him. Again that is what good orgs do for players of his caliber. Leonars, Warer, Mosely, Deebo, Metcalf, Diontae got paid by their teams. Adams, Hill, AJ got traded to teams that would pay them.

You dont let a guy of Quan's caliber go into the season with this unresolved unless he is ok with it which he obviously isnt. So there comes a point in TC where Bears need to trade him IMO if this isnt going to get done.

That is their only two choices.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

There is an argument for paying Quan 20m and there is an argument not to. Whichever side you land on the larger point remains. Quan has done everything you could ask for including being here this whole offseason. Even now he is reportedly working with the players while he waits for a new contract.

So do right by the guy. Either work something out or trade him. Again that is what good orgs do for players of his caliber. Leonars, Warer, Mosely, Deebo, Metcalf, Diontae got paid by their teams. Adams, Hill, AJ got traded to teams that would pay them.

You dont let a guy of Quan's caliber go into the season with this unresolved unless he is ok with it which he obviously isnt. So there comes a point in TC where Bears need to trade him IMO if this isnt going to get done.

When bears traded for Mack was he on fifth year option or franchise tag?

 

[Myk]

Holy. Shit. This is some next level drivel.

Well argued. You win. Dumbass.