Advanced Stats say maybe the Bears shouldn’t give in to Roquan

remydat

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The problem with this is I don't think anyone really wants to pay Roquan Smith twenty million a year. And those that are maybe willing are not going to part with a draft pick on top of all the money. Bears are not going to accept a third or less for Smith, that's what he is worth in the compensatory formula.

So you give him permission to talk to teams and he can find oit what he is worth.

The comp pick is not a great argument as given we have 100m to spend we are almost certainly going to not get comp picks next year.

But I would not trade him for less than a 2nd or a 3rd from a team projected to be shit.
 

Montucky

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So you give him permission to talk to teams and he can find oit what he is worth.

The comp pick is not a great argument as given we have 100m to spend we are almost certainly going to not get comp picks next year.

But I would not trade him for less than a 2nd or a 3rd from a team projected to be shit.
For all we know that might be happening. I just think if the Bears were willing to pay him they'd have done it by now, all the other hold-ins have signed. You might get another team deciding they need a boost before the season who would cough up a first or second, but that certainly hasn't materialized yet and, like has been said in this thread, Roquan Smith is a very good player at a non-premium position.

He needs to prove he's that twenty million a year player before he gets paid like it. He's got a nice stack this year and really it could not be a better situation for him in terms of the system and coach. Holding in for a few weeks is fine, at least he's in the building, but he needs to play.
 

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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5th year as had played 4 with Raiders.

One can be a leader and still not worth 20m a year if that is what he is asking for.
Idk what you can get in a trade. I never thought a safety could net 2 first round picks. If can get anywhere near that I would just go full Special person with the rebuild
 

Wild_x_Card

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Well argued. You win. Dumbass.
Your football takes have been for the most part terrible for years. Not quite noonthirtyjoe level bad but certainly more meatball. There's not much worth arguing TBH.
 

Wild_x_Card

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Did someone really say Roquan Smith is a cancer because he wants more money?? Jesus Christ
You certainly did. you'll find alot of next level zingers around these parts. hE WaNTz aLl mooNiEZ FoR HiMSaLFff?
 
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MikeDitkaPolishSausage

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Calm down now, i was just having some fun with you. Jenkins is an unproven high 2nd round pick that has a ton of talent to be a long time starting o-lineman in the NFL though and hasn't had the field time to show us just how good he can be. Just sayin.
I am 100% calm, are you? All we know is Jenkins is an unproven 2nd round pick. We have no idea if he has talent to be a long time starting o lineman in the NFL. And we don’t know that because he hasn’t been on the field. Pretty simple.
 

Canth

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yes TFL are great, but hitting the QB is better, if you're getting to the QB you are speeding up his internal clock forcing him to not fully go though his reads, force throws, throw early etc. Tackling a RB or WR behind the line is good but it doesn't carry the same impact to the game that it does to pressuring a QB.

And if we were talking about an edge rusher or defensive end, I would agree with you. But Roquan was a middle linebacker in a 3-4 scheme for all those stats. IMO, he was generally an effective blitzer and had decent sack numbers for that position and understanding that he was not asked to regularly rush the passer - that was Mack's and Quinn's job.

So, within reading the play and blowing up the play, in his role, all those TFL's mean he was damn good at his job.
 

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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I am 100% calm, are you? All we know is Jenkins is an unproven 2nd round pick. We have no idea if he has talent to be a long time starting o lineman in the NFL. And we don’t know that because he hasn’t been on the field. Pretty simple.
It’s very hard talking footbaw with dong and friends
 

Bust

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So, within reading the play and blowing up the play, in his role, all those TFL's mean he was damn good at his job.

No one said Smith isn't good . . .

Think in terms of the nfl ruleset today which heavily favors offense. If a LB were allowed to lay wood and intimidate receivers running underneath routes like how butkus, singletary and urlacher was able to do, Smith's future paygrade is a non issue.

But given the flag football defenses of present day NFL . . . priorities change

The league is trending that way as well. It's just like the Bears <one of the worst franchises in football> to stay the course and head the opposite direction by building around a LB and RB as their highest paid core, heh.

 

Wild_x_Card

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The facts are Smith is top 3-5 at his position. On any given Sunday he's capable of being better than any of his peers statistically. NFL contacts over the last several years don't pay by best to worst perse. They pay you whatever the market value is for your peer group. Meaning: the number 4 guy gets paid very much like the number 1 guy.

Smith will get paid as a top backer in the NFL. Wether that's here or elsewhere is the only thing that's debatable.
 

dbldrew

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And if we were talking about an edge rusher or defensive end, I would agree with you. But Roquan was a middle linebacker in a 3-4 scheme for all those stats. IMO, he was generally an effective blitzer and had decent sack numbers for that position and understanding that he was not asked to regularly rush the passer - that was Mack's and Quinn's job.

So, within reading the play and blowing up the play, in his role, all those TFL's mean he was damn good at his job.
if we are talking edge rusher money then thats the problem, No doubt about it that he is a great player at his position, but if his position is not attacking the QB then that position is not worth as much as others.. Every position is important to the team.. but you dont pay kickers and RB the same as a QB.

He is a good player that deserves to be paid.. as long as the pay he is looking for is within reason for that position
 
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circusboy666

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Roquan makes all the plays he should. He fast, smart, delivers hard hits. That doesn’t warrant the salary he wants. He’s not a game changer and not worth worth a hefty contract . I’d personally look to move him and see what draft capital can be gained.
 

Myk

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Did someone really say Roquan Smith is a cancer because he wants more money?? Jesus Christ

He's a cancer because he holds out. He's not here for the team. He's not here to make the team win. He's here to line his pockets at the cost of the team.
Outside of the team I'm all for that, get whatever you can. But I'm a fan of this team not a single player on the team.
If the player isn't responsible for making the team win the player needs to be reasonable in their demands to allow the team to get the other needs filled so they can win.
2 hold outs in not even 2 contracts is not a player who wants the team to win. That creates bad blood and it spreads. That is why players like that are called a cancer. There's a big difference between saying you want more money and holding out in rookie contract/extensions that should be easily done.

Don't forget, 2022 is the 5th year option. This is him refusing to work while under contract so he can demand more from the future now plus the contract he should still be under. He got paid top 10 money knowing there's an option for the 5th and he's not living up to his end of the bargain.
If you don't play along with the CBA in order to get more for yourself the others in your collective tend to not like it.




The facts are Smith is top 3-5 at his position. On any given Sunday he's capable of being better than any of his peers statistically. NFL contacts over the last several years don't pay by best to worst perse. They pay you whatever the market value is for your peer group. Meaning: the number 4 guy gets paid very much like the number 1 guy.

Smith will get paid as a top backer in the NFL. Wether that's here or elsewhere is the only thing that's debatable.

Is he winning games here? That's all that should matter to Bears fans not what statistics say.
Maybe having the best LB that isn't making the playoffs is a comfort to you but it's not to me.
I'd want a powerhouse defense if 3-0 wins were still a thing in the NFL. But a powerhouse defense that's losing 33-15 whenever the defense faces an offense isn't cutting it. This Smith "led" defense hasn't been impressing anyone.

So let him go somewhere else where he'll have to fight with others who do make their team win for a piece of the pie.
 

napo55

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The Bears are a bad to, with lots of luck, a mediocre team and have been so for years. So might as well get rid of your best defensive player.
 

Wild_x_Card

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He's a cancer because he holds out. He's not here for the team. He's not here to make the team win. He's here to line his pockets at the cost of the team.
Outside of the team I'm all for that, get whatever you can. But I'm a fan of this team not a single player on the team.
If the player isn't responsible for making the team win the player needs to be reasonable in their demands to allow the team to get the other needs filled so they can win.
2 hold outs in not even 2 contracts is not a player who wants the team to win. That creates bad blood and it spreads. That is why players like that are called a cancer. There's a big difference between saying you want more money and holding out in rookie contract/extensions that should be easily done.

Don't forget, 2022 is the 5th year option. This is him refusing to work while under contract so he can demand more from the future now plus the contract he should still be under. He got paid top 10 money knowing there's an option for the 5th and he's not living up to his end of the bargain.
If you don't play along with the CBA in order to get more for yourself the others in your collective tend to not like it.






Is he winning games here? That's all that should matter to Bears fans not what statistics say.
Maybe having the best LB that isn't making the playoffs is a comfort to you but it's not to me.
I'd want a powerhouse defense if 3-0 wins were still a thing in the NFL. But a powerhouse defense that's losing 33-15 whenever the defense faces an offense isn't cutting it. This Smith "led" defense hasn't been impressing anyone.

So let him go somewhere else where he'll have to fight with others who do make their team win for a piece of the pie.
Your winning games argument is beyond ridiculous. Roquan being a really good player on medicore/shitty teams isn't his problem. It's the bears problem. For not flushing out the roster for more quality talent. Using your logic no good players on suspect teams should even get paid. That's not the way the NFL works.

Also, the NFL is a business first and foremost, it's in the players best interest to make as much as they can when they can because it can all be over in one snap of the ball.

What's even more hilarious is you completely ignoring why he held out on his rookie deal. That hold out ended up being a win for players around the NFL. The language in the original contract was ugly from a players perspective, especially at his position and the contact involved.

Cancer lololololoooooo
 
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Myk

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Your winning games argument is beyond ridiculous. Roquan being a really good player on medicore/shitty teams isn't his problem. It's the bears problem. For not flushing out the roster for more quality talent. Using your logic no good players on suspect teams should even get paid. That's not the way the NFL works.

Also, the NFL is a business first and foremost, it's in the players best interest to make as much as they can when they can because it can all be over in one snap of the ball.

What's even more hilarious is you completely ignoring why he held out on his rookie deal. That hold out ended up being a win for players around the NFL. The language in the original contract was ugly from a players perspective, especially at his position and the contact involved.

Cancer lololololoooooo


So hampering the team with the highest paid player at a position that doesn't win us games and won't ever win us games is your solution?
How did giving him a huge contract work out with Cutler?
There is a thing called a salary cap. When you give one player too much of that cap it had better be someone who wins games on their own because you limit the amount of help you can get after that.
We got screwed getting rid of Mack's bloated contract, we don't need another right now.

I don't ignore why he held out last time. I make no judgment whether the outcome was good or bad. My issue is this player held out here then and now this player is holding out refusing to perform while under contract so he get get more later. If you can't see the pattern that is your idiocy not mine.
If this player had played his 5th and then worked out a contract the other hold out could've been forgotten by me.

I seriously don't give a shit about the plight of the poor little rich kids playing pro sports. If I did it would be about the ones who get paid minimum not the ones who are crying about 20 million dollar contracts while claiming to be for the ones making minimum.
Cry me a river.

There's your problem, you're pretending to be Monday Morning GM while trying to do it from a "player's perspective". You can't have it both ways. You're playing Monday Morning Agent while claiming it is for the good of the team.
I'm looking from a fan perspective. Does he win games? If he wants my endorsement, and I'm sure he doesn't give a crap what I say he waits until next year after he proves he can win us games. Then I'll be all for paying him if him winning games happens.
But I think you or at least others have already admitted his position won't ever win us games.
 

remydat

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For all we know that might be happening. I just think if the Bears were willing to pay him they'd have done it by now, all the other hold-ins have signed. You might get another team deciding they need a boost before the season who would cough up a first or second, but that certainly hasn't materialized yet and, like has been said in this thread, Roquan Smith is a very good player at a non-premium position.

He needs to prove he's that twenty million a year player before he gets paid like it. He's got a nice stack this year and really it could not be a better situation for him in terms of the system and coach. Holding in for a few weeks is fine, at least he's in the building, but he needs to play.

Think he is fully aware of the argument for him playing this year and yet he is still holding out. Up to him to decide what he is willing to play for. Needs to be resolved one way or the other.
 

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