Am I missing something?

[gopher72]

Apologies if I missed it but I am surprised by the seemingly lack of enthusiasm for the Saad Zadorov trade. Hey I agree Bowman isn’t the guy to run the rebuild but we’ve been getting our butts kicked defensively by big strong forwards that it would seem Zadorov is an excellent acquisition. And while I have always liked Saad, he’s expensive.

 

[wonky73]

1. I assume any move Bowman makes is wrong
2. doesn't really seem to help the rebuild

 

[Raskolnikov]

1. With the absence of a viable NHL goalie, all anyone can see is tank mode. I think Stan's comments on the thing, about not being able to find a goalie of the future if we have a goalie, were pretty idiotic. What the hell was Lehner? Vegas got a goalie of the future at 5 mil per. Thats a bargain. Explain that one to me again Stan.
2. So...accepting tank mode. We look very curiously at the defense and wonder why JC's pet Calvin DeHaan is still here. You could cut bait with Murphy, but then Zadorov is more of a lateral move. If both are still here, and Seabs is here, than 2 of Boqvist/Beudin/Mitchell will be blocked, sorta missing the value of the tank in development.
3. We just aren't happy with Stan right now. We don't like the actions. We don't like the words out of his mouth. None of it seems good.

The bigger issue here is I believe the staff is on the verge of losing the team. They may not know it until they are 1-8-2...and wondering how they are going to win any of the next 5 games or something. But they will know it. Combining a historically bad defense with Stan's goalie plan is a great way to completely lose a locker room.

Stan loves him 1 year contracts. This pain will be because he can't give Crow a 2 year. But come-on man. Of course an idiot GM would fall in love with 1 year contracts, you don't have to own your mistakes. You also don't reap the rewards of taking risks and hitting. It really narrows your player pool to a few guys in that situation. Very strange.


My guess would be they are tanking, and trying to get some guys to jump ship with NTC's. They know JC is unpopular, and if a goalie gets hot great, might be part of the future, but they want the Toews bounty and Seabs gone, possibly Keith. So this is a 15 month gear shift, to purge and then maybe punt JC and burn the 1 years as they shift to a new coach, new goalie, and build around with cap and assets.

It would take a miracle for Stan to survive, imo. This is gonna get ugly? Not sure we were even that bad with Crow, I agree with OP we might have gotten better elsewhere.

I hate the lehner loss the most, but without a 5 year solution in house, Crow was not only the answer but the heart of the team.

I wonder how many years of the next decade it takes to find a better goalie "for the next decade." IDIOT!!

 

[Granada]

I said this in another thread (not sure why this deserves a separate thread, but I digress) -- I'm personally excited to see Zadorov. He's the big-bodied, nasty D-man many fans have always wanted to see on the Hawks.

I think the people who are upset with the trade expected more return for Saad and feel Bowman got a bit fleeced here. Time will tell of course, but again, I don't mind the trade at all.

 

[Team Chicago]

I like Zadorov and he is the type of dman that we need and is pretty young so I understand the trade. I also liked what Saad brought, he was a good all around player that could score and generated a lot.

 

[LordKOTL]

Apologies if I missed it but I am surprised by the seemingly lack of enthusiasm for the Saad Zadorov trade. Hey I agree Bowman isn’t the guy to run the rebuild but we’ve been getting our butts kicked defensively by big strong forwards that it would seem Zadorov is an excellent acquisition. And while I have always liked Saad, he’s expensive.

In the positive for Zadorov...he is a big-bodied D-man which the 'hawks have needed since ~2014.

In the negative, his actual defensive skill is middle pair: He's not that much of an upgrade in terms of defensive prowess over DeHaan, Murph, or Maata.

So he can hit and clear the crease on paper--assuming the 'hawks don't suck the snarl out of him like thy have for players in the recent past--but in terms of actual defense upgrade...there really isn't a measurable one. In terms of actual playing defense Zadorov for Maata doesn't help the backend much--and it further locks the D-positions which prevents a lot of the youth D to get a shot at the roster--assuming no other moves are made.

IMHO the move is a positive one in a vacuum. The 'hawks cleared ~3M in cap with Zaddy vs. Saad, and with vs. Maata the 'hawks middle pair should be a tiny bit better. Taken as a whole though, the move didn't really address the atrocious team D in any way. The 'hawks are not really rebuilding since they have way too many middle-pairing vets, and none of the guys on D are superstars who can carry the team to victory with any regularity (anymore).

As for Zaddy himself, time will tell even though I'm somewhat positive on it--if he plays as advertised it's a good move and the only negative I see in the move is if his snarl is sucked out. If he keeps it up and doesn't take too many penalties (i.e. Shaw), I'll be happy with the move.

 

[Tater]

As for Zaddy himself, time will tell even though I'm somewhat positive on it--if he plays as advertised it's a good move and the only negative I see in the move is if his snarl is sucked out. If he keeps it up and doesn't take too many penalties (i.e. Shaw), I'll be happy with the move.

Good post.
For the quote, if they do let Zaddy play his style of game, it could help the development of the young goalies and younger smaller d men by giving them some protection if needed.

 

[LordKOTL]

Good post.
For the quote, if they do let Zaddy play his style of game, it could help the development of the young goalies and younger smaller d men by giving them some protection if needed.

I hope so as well, but color me a bit cynical. Back in 2012 we did have a defenseman who had the clockweights to clear the crease: Seabrook. He did end up doing so and was the only guy to do so, but he was only on the ice for ~1/3 of the game. When he wasn't on the ice, guys like Keith, Hjammer, O'donnel, Montador, Lepistopheles, etc. were letting the opposition get 5-6 whacks at the puck while it was in the crease in front of Emery or Crawford.

That's not a knock on Zaddy himself, but rather a knock on the team "culture" so-to-speak. If more guys would do that I'd be a little more optimistic. I think at this point it would be better if Subban/Delia/Lankinen/Nalimov/etc. work on being deflection goalies like Crawford became as opposed to absorption goalies. Sure, they might give up a rebound but at least the puck will go to where 5 of the 6 defensemen usually play.

And, truth be told, I would have loved Zaddy on the team both times Crawford was run. Not just that but when Debrincat is sticking up for Keith you know there's a problem with team pussification.

 

[HSBOB]

I said this in another thread (not sure why this deserves a separate thread, but I digress) -- I'm personally excited to see Zadorov. He's the big-bodied, nasty D-man many fans have always wanted to see on the Hawks.

I think the people who are upset with the trade expected more return for Saad and feel Bowman got a bit fleeced here. Time will tell of course, but again, I don't mind the trade at all.

It woulda been great to have a guy like the big Russian to keep CC from gettin' blasted through the back of his net a few times a year.......we get him now when there's nobody worth protecting.

 

[HSBOB]

I hope so as well, but color me a bit cynical. Back in 2012 we did have a defenseman who had the clockweights to clear the crease: Seabrook. He did end up doing so and was the only guy to do so, but he was only on the ice for ~1/3 of the game. When he wasn't on the ice, guys like Keith, Hjammer, O'donnel, Montador, Lepistopheles, etc. were letting the opposition get 5-6 whacks at the puck while it was in the crease in front of Emery or Crawford.

That's not a knock on Zaddy himself, but rather a knock on the team "culture" so-to-speak. If more guys would do that I'd be a little more optimistic. I think at this point it would be better if Subban/Delia/Lankinen/Nalimov/etc. work on being deflection goalies like Crawford became as opposed to absorption goalies. Sure, they might give up a rebound but at least the puck will go to where 5 of the 6 defensemen usually play.

And, truth be told, I would have loved Zaddy on the team both times Crawford was run. Not just that but when Debrincat is sticking up for Keith you know there's a problem with team pussification.

Amen my friend! I remember Murphy being one tough SOB with AZ too but not so much after he got the memo here.
Our brain dead GM spends 8.6M.....that's 8.6M on two D acquisitions last summer,one's already been traded with money retained and the other's absolutely untradeable. I guess a young guy gets a shot when de Haan goes down with the next 'shoulder'. We also had a young guy in Gilbert who was tougher than a two dollar steak but he wasn't good enough for JC....neither was the Joker. The AVS plan to give Gilbert a real shot from the chatter out there as does LV with the 6'3" 235lb Carl Dahlstrom they got in trade but we got a bunch of Lil dudes ready to go at D so we're good.

 

[KBIB]

If the Hawks are getting the 17/18 Zadorov who averaged almost 20 minutes a game and led the league with 278 hits and most concussions given, the Hawks won the trade, hands down. He was a legit second pairing guy who trucked everyone coming home into the zone and was a game changer in a sense you had to know when he was on the ice.

In open ice, Zadorov is a scary guy. In close quarters, he's a pylon. He doesn't play the cycle well and has tunnel vision looking for the big hit. His game is all about hitting. He routinely gets outta place looking to crush somebody and more then regularly is in a corner when the other team scores in front of the net.

But, in 17/18, his positives outweighed his negatives. His perfect partner would be Boqvist if Boqvist can develop into the guy who can move the puck once Zadorov knocks a puck carrier into the second row.

The Av's play a more possession type of game, they didn't need him. It just makes me wonder what type of system the Hawks are gonna implement this year with the type of players they brought in and if the dump and chase is actually gonna be brought back.

Because one thing is sure, the run and gun pond hockey strong style isn't gonna bring alot of wins

 

[LordKOTL]

If the Hawks are getting the 17/18 Zadorov who averaged almost 20 minutes a game and led the league with 278 hits and most concussions given, the Hawks won the trade, hands down. He was a legit second pairing guy who trucked everyone coming home into the zone and was a game changer in a sense you had to know when he was on the ice.

In open ice, Zadorov is a scary guy. In close quarters, he's a pylon. He doesn't play the cycle well and has tunnel vision looking for the big hit. His game is all about hitting. He routinely gets outta place looking to crush somebody and more then regularly is in a corner when the other team scores in front of the net.

But, in 17/18, his positives outweighed his negatives. His perfect partner would be Boqvist if Boqvist can develop into the guy who can move the puck once Zadorov knocks a puck carrier into the second row.

The Av's play a more possession type of game, they didn't need him. It just makes me wonder what type of system the Hawks are gonna implement this year with the type of players they brought in and if the dump and chase is actually gonna be brought back.

Because one thing is sure, the run and gun pond hockey strong style isn't gonna bring alot of wins

You say that as if the 'hawks have has a system for the past few years. Granted, I'm the type of person that thinks, "Mongolian Clusterfuck" is not a system.

 

[RacerX]

Amen my friend! I remember Murphy being one tough SOB with AZ too but not so much after he got the memo here.
Our brain dead GM spends 8.6M.....that's 8.6M on two D acquisitions last summer,one's already been traded with money retained and the other's absolutely untradeable. I guess a young guy gets a shot when de Haan goes down with the next 'shoulder'. We also had a young guy in Gilbert who was tougher than a two dollar steak but he wasn't good enough for JC....neither was the Joker. The AVS plan to give Gilbert a real shot from the chatter out there as does LV with the 6'3" 235lb Carl Dahlstrom they got in trade but we got a bunch of Lil dudes ready to go at D so we're good.

<sigh>

 

[HSBOB]

<sigh>

View attachment 7978

Henry Jokiharju made the opening night lineup for a curmudgeonly Q at 19 and saw big minutes with Keith till boy wonder got here and started cuttin' those minutes. He then went on to send him back to Rockford after saying something about the 6' 195lb youngster not "havinng a man body" while playing the 166lb Sikura on the top line. Then SB started some shit about a bad attitude after trading him for Nolander(more on him later),this bad attitude 19yro helped his country beat teams full of NHL'ers in the WC and went on to play em all for a very demanding Ralph Krueger last year @20. This allowed Buffalo to dump both Scandella and Bogosian's money as the year went on because 'The Joker' was eatin' big minutes by the end of the year......at 20!
Nolander came up three different times for two different coaches for the Sabres and neither coach could stand his floating around for more than EIGHT games but he was the guy for us!LOL! He mouthed off after he got here about how Buffalo wasn't able to develop young players and lo and behold........he finds himself a healthy scratch only three games in for his third coach here and again in the last and biggest game of the year in favor of a career AHL'er with a few more scratches in between. A GM couldn't assess young players any worse than this example!

 

[hawkinmontreal]

Henry Jokiharju made the opening night lineup for a curmudgeonly Q at 19 and saw big minutes with Keith till boy wonder got here and started cuttin' those minutes. He then went on to send him back to Rockford after saying something about the 6' 195lb youngster not "havinng a man body" while playing the 166lb Sikura on the top line. Then SB started some shit about a bad attitude after trading him for Nolander(more on him later),this bad attitude 19yro helped his country beat teams full of NHL'ers in the WC and went on to play em all for a very demanding Ralph Krueger last year @20. This allowed Buffalo to dump both Scandella and Bogosian's money as the year went on because 'The Joker' was eatin' big minutes by the end of the year......at 20!
Nolander came up three different times for two different coaches for the Sabres and neither coach could stand his floating around for more than EIGHT games but he was the guy for us!LOL! He mouthed off after he got here about how Buffalo wasn't able to develop young players and lo and behold........he finds himself a healthy scratch only three games in for his third coach here and again in the last and biggest game of the year in favor of a career AHL'er with a few more scratches in between. A GM couldn't assess young players any worse than this example!

We can beat this like a dead horse over and over agin. It’s frustrating to the bitter end, but it’s done and there is no turning back, it started with Panarin and Hammer and it will continue until this team is gutted inside and out. Nothing is a surprise anymore.

 

[Team Chicago]

Hopefully Zadarov can be a cycle buster. We need a guy who can regain possession in the d zone, too soft and I'm not sure how good any of the young guys will be in their own end either.

 

[HSBOB]

We can beat this like a dead horse over and over agin. It’s frustrating to the bitter end, but it’s done and there is no turning back, it started with Panarin and Hammer and it will continue until this team is gutted inside and out. Nothing is a surprise anymore.

Thought it'd be okay to revisit a one year old trade in the middle of the dog days.

 

[LordKOTL]

Thought it'd be okay to revisit a one year old trade in the middle of the dog days.

Let's revisit an old trade that's positive to balance it out:
Blackhawks Acquire Sharp, Meloche

That one *always* warms the cockles of my heart

 

[KBIB]

We can beat this like a dead horse over and over agin. It’s frustrating to the bitter end, but it’s done and there is no turning back, it started with Panarin and Hammer and it will continue until this team is gutted inside and out. Nothing is a surprise anymore.

The Hammer trade wasn't bad. Hammer has alot of miles on him and Murphy is the better player currently and could be even better if they let him play a semblance of his actual game here.

That might be the only even up trade Blowman has made in the dump years.

 

[KBIB]

Hopefully Zadarov can be a cycle buster. We need a guy who can regain possession in the d zone, too soft and I'm not sure how good any of the young guys will be in their own end either.

They're puck movers first and foremost.

Zadorov will be a perfect partner for two of them so long as the other team doesn't start the cycle.