Ball might be back soon [By might, we mean never]

[Scoot26]

And that'll make me think that it's really either Reindorf driving things, or he hires guys that basically think the same.

Very well could be. And its been said its Michael running the show now and not Jerry, which would mean Michael is just the same as his father and we're not getting a Bill Wirtz to Rocky Wirtz kind of situation.

Suppose we'll know for sure whenever Jerry actually passes.

In terms of this front office though. It is possible for both to be absolutely bad, and this is what it is. If the Bulls continue to be bad, we'll see how much loyalty remains a factor in Reinsdorf keeping AK around. As we all know, AK is only his third GM in nearly 40 years.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Very well could be. And its been said its Michael running the show now and not Jerry, which would mean Michael is just the same as his father and we're not getting a Bill Wirtz to Rocky Wirtz kind of situation.

Suppose we'll know for sure whenever Jerry actually passes.

In terms of this front office though. It is possible for both to be absolutely bad, and this is what it is. If the Bulls continue to be bad, we'll see how much loyalty remains a factor in Reinsdorf keeping AK around. As we all know, AK is only his third GM in nearly 40 years.

AK could definitely just as bad as GarPax, but it's again a different sort of bad. As we know, GarPax would never have traded 1sts and generally never made trades that weren't salary dumps. AK has bucked both those trends right out of the gate. Not to say one is definitively worse than the other, but just a different sort of hopelessness from the fanbase.

But as you said we'll see what AK does this offseason, if he doubles down on what is definitely not showing promise of working, or if he has the courage to pivot away from this core.

 

[Scoot26]

AK could definitely just as bad as GarPax, but it's again a different sort of bad. As we know, GarPax would never have traded 1sts and generally never made trades that weren't salary dumps. AK has bucked both those trends right out of the gate. Not to say one is definitively worse than the other, but just a different sort of hopelessness from the fanbase.

But as you said we'll see what AK does this offseason, if he doubles down on what is definitely not showing promise of working, or if he has the courage to pivot away from this core.

The way this team is constructed, and given the Bulls may not have a 1st this year, or in 2025, it only makes sense to tear this team down via trades. They can try to get some draft capital back. They could also, somehow, improve the team via trading, though again, I have no idea how that would realistically work. We'll wait and see what he does this off-season. But making trades is really where the only hope lies. Bulls, without a draft pick, don't improve there, and there isn't room for anyone in free agency.

 

[clonetrooper264]

The way this team is constructed, and given the Bulls may not have a 1st this year, or in 2025, it only makes sense to tear this team down via trades. They can try to get some draft capital back. They could also, somehow, improve the team via trading, though again, I have no idea how that would realistically work. We'll wait and see what he does this off-season. But making trades is really where the only hope lies. Bulls, without a draft pick, don't improve there, and there isn't room for anyone in free agency.

Trading is the only way out at this stage. Even if Bulls did somehow have cap room, who would they even sign? There's some decent names available but none that would really move the needle.

You could probably easily net a 1st and some other assets for Derozan, if there was any market for Vuc in a S&T you could probably recoup a 1st there as well. Still quite a net loss overall, but at least gives something to work with

 

[RacerX]

IMO the current FO >>>>>>> GarPax. The latter is a confirmed suck, and the former is merely a likely suck.

The difference is that at least AK gives it a legit try, as opposed to GarPax who only cared about maintaining their jobs and accordingly took the lowest risk-profile imaginable and drafted high floors with limited ceiling, just enough safe talent to not embarrass the owners and avoid getting canned.

 

[knoxville7]

IMO the current FO >>>>>>> GarPax. The latter is a confirmed suck, and the former is merely a likely suck.

The difference is that at least AK gives it a legit try, as opposed to GarPax who only cared about maintaining their jobs and accordingly took the lowest risk-profile imaginable and drafted high floors with limited ceiling, just enough safe talent to not embarrass the owners and avoid getting canned.

100%

AKME is at least willing to take the a swing in the batters box. GarPax wouldn’t even step out of the dugout

 

[Axl Rose]

Things couldn't have gone worse for AKME to start, but i can forgive everything up until secretly re-signing Billy Donovan. The aggressiveness they have showed early on has disappeared and they seem stuck without much idea of how to get out.

But atleast i haven't seen any toxic or undermining tactics that became so prevalent during the old regime.

 

[Enasic]

I believe at one point, Garpax made something like 10 consecutive playoff appearances. They drafted well. Their teams played hard and were intelligent (most of them).

Obviously we all wanted them gone because their time was way overdue and they could never get over the hump, but to say the AKME regime is better when all of their moves have bombed and they secretly extended BD in the off-season like idiots is a weird stance. Being aggressive is great when it works…but when you completely whiff on those aggressive moves, you don’t get credit in a results based business. We’ll see what their plan is now and what they do, but I’d be surprised if they turned this into a relevant team anytime soon

 

[Scoot26]

I believe at one point, Garpax made something like 10 consecutive playoff appearances. They drafted well. Their teams played hard and were intelligent (most of them).

Obviously we all wanted them gone because their time was way overdue and they could never get over the hump, but to say the AKME regime is better when all of their moves have bombed and they secretly extended BD in the off-season like idiots is a weird stance. Being aggressive is great when it works…but when you completely whiff on those aggressive moves, you don’t get credit in a results based business. We’ll see what their plan is now and what they do, but I’d be surprised if they turned this into a relevant team anytime soon

They didn't...

04-05 L-1st
05-06 L-1st
06-07 L-2nd
07-08 Missed playoffs
08-09 L-1st
09-10 L-1st
10-11 L-ECF
11-12 L-1st
12-13 L-2nd
13-14 L-1st
14-15 L-2nd
15-16 Missed playoffs
16-17 L-1st
17-18 Missed playoffs
18-19 Missed playoffs
19-20 Missed playoffs
---Fired

Their best from was from 2009-2015, which was 7 straight playoffs. 4 were first round exits. Only one of those 1st round exits did they even look competent in.

Notable draft picks during GarPax time:
2003: Kirk Hinrich
2004: Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, Chris Duhon
2005: No picks
2006: LaMarcus Aldridge (Traded for Tyrus Thomas), Rodney Carney (Traded for Thabo)
2007: Joakim Noah
2008: Derrick Rose
2009: James Johnson, Taj Gibson
2010: Traded pick for FA space
2011: Jimmy Butler, traded for Nikola Mirotic
2012: Marques Teague
2013: Tony Snell
2014: Traded for Doug McDermott
2015: Bobby Portis
2016: Denzel Valentine
2017: Traded for Lauri Markkanen
2018: Wendell Carter
2019: Coby White
--- Fired.


Paxson was able to construct a playoff team with his picks in his first few years. He wasn't able to take the next step though. The Eddy Curry trade was highway robbery that Pax then took a risk on an uber athletic player (Tyrus) vs more of a sure thing in keeping Aldridge. He did at least get Noah with the other pick. The Bulls completely lucked into Derrick Rose. They did find Butler, and had a few minor hits on role players, but from 2010-2019 I can't say they drafted very well at all overall.

 

[Enasic]

They didn't...

04-05 L-1st
05-06 L-1st
06-07 L-2nd
07-08 Missed playoffs
08-09 L-1st
09-10 L-1st
10-11 L-ECF
11-12 L-1st
12-13 L-2nd
13-14 L-1st
14-15 L-2nd
15-16 Missed playoffs
16-17 L-1st
17-18 Missed playoffs
18-19 Missed playoffs
19-20 Missed playoffs
---Fired

Their best from was from 2009-2015, which was 7 straight playoffs. 4 were first round exits. Only one of those 1st round exits did they even look competent in.

Notable draft picks during GarPax time:
2003: Kirk Hinrich
2004: Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, Chris Duhon
2005: No picks
2006: LaMarcus Aldridge (Traded for Tyrus Thomas), Rodney Carney (Traded for Thabo)
2007: Joakim Noah
2008: Derrick Rose
2009: James Johnson, Taj Gibson
2010: Traded pick for FA space
2011: Jimmy Butler, traded for Nikola Mirotic
2012: Marques Teague
2013: Tony Snell
2014: Traded for Doug McDermott
2015: Bobby Portis
2016: Denzel Valentine
2017: Traded for Lauri Markkanen
2018: Wendell Carter
2019: Coby White
--- Fired.


Paxson was able to construct a playoff team with his picks in his first few years. He wasn't able to take the next step though. The Eddy Curry trade was highway robbery that Pax then took a risk on an uber athletic player (Tyrus) vs more of a sure thing in keeping Aldridge. He did at least get Noah with the other pick. The Bulls completely lucked into Derrick Rose. They did find Butler, and had a few minor hits on role players, but from 2010-2019 I can't say they drafted very well at all overall.

Thanks for the correction - 7 straight playoff trips, not 10. I knew it was around there.

I’m not here to argue with anyone that Garpax was great. They weren’t. But to say AKME is better at this juncture is just silliness. They’re well under .500 since they took over, all of their moves have bombed, and they have 1 playoff win to show for it…and that team was one of the more pathetic teams I’ve seen in a while, regularly getting blown out.

The bar is low so they have time to surpass the mediocrity that was Garpax, but they haven’t met that low bar yet. The Bulls have been a complete disappointment and extremely hard to watch since AK took over

 

[Axl Rose]

Good lord they are already calling him out for next season too.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1636491347665223683

 

[BNB]

Good lord they are already calling him out for next season too.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1636491347665223683

Yup.. Based on my Google search, the recovery time states that after this procedure, patients can begin "light jogging" at 1 year. So he's definitely out next season.

He'll likely opt into the final year of his deal... so I guess we'll see what he has left in 24-25.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Man WTF actually is wrong with his knee? Did they destroy his meniscus in the initial surgery or something?

 

[Scoot26]

Yup.. Based on my Google search, the recovery time states that after this procedure, patients can begin "light jogging" at 1 year. So he's definitely out next season.

He'll likely opt into the final year of his deal... so I guess we'll see what he has left in 24-25.

Bulls could buy him out.

 

[Scoot26]

Bulls could do something like the Lakers did with Luol Deng in that they buy him out, spread out his money over several years so it affects the salary cap less in the here and now.

Depends what they wanna do with it. He'll obviously opt in if they keep him.

But if I'm the Bulls I seriously consider an injury settlement and then go out and find a new PG.

 

[Axl Rose]

I'm not a fan of the stretch provision unless we can put together a contender by doing so. His stretched contract is more likely to cause us issues as he'll still be the books for another 5+ years.

I think they seriously need to consider seeking medical retirement. He still gets what hes owed but this takes him off the books completely. I just don't know how tough it would be to get this granted. Would NBA doctors see this 3rd hail mary surgery as a reason to deny it?

 

[clonetrooper264]

I'm not a fan of the stretch provision unless we can put together a contender by doing so. His stretched contract is more likely to cause us issues as he'll still be the books for another 5+ years.

I think they seriously need to consider seeking medical retirement. He still gets what hes owed but this takes him off the books completely. I just don't know how tough it would be to get this granted. Would NBA doctors see this 3rd hail mary surgery as a reason to deny it?

Even if stretching him does lengthen the amount of time he's on the books, his cap hit is still less so that's still some form of relief.

Pretty sure you have to be in Brandon Roy/Chris Bosh status at that point...doctors have to say you literally cannot play anymore. Bulls wouldn't be able to do that until after the surgery recovery period when Lonzo begins his rehab again. Best case you just get out of his last year of the contract, not really moving the needle much at that point, though it still helps for that season.

The only way to get immediate cap relief from Lonzo would be to do some sort of buyout arrangement now. AK is too committed to this disaster so it ain't happening.

 

[Scoot26]

Even if stretching him does lengthen the amount of time he's on the books, his cap hit is still less so that's still some form of relief.

Pretty sure you have to be in Brandon Roy/Chris Bosh status at that point...doctors have to say you literally cannot play anymore. Bulls wouldn't be able to do that until after the surgery recovery period when Lonzo begins his rehab again. Best case you just get out of his last year of the contract, not really moving the needle much at that point, though it still helps for that season.

The only way to get immediate cap relief from Lonzo would be to do some sort of buyout arrangement now. AK is too committed to this disaster so it ain't happening.

Yes, you basically have to have a medical team saying "you can't play" and then that exception would be granted. Lonzo won't get that granted. Lonzo himself still wants to play as well.

 

[Axl Rose]

If medical retirement isn't an option yet then i say do nothing. Surely if this surgery is unsuccessful we have a bonafide case to get him removed and if successful we have a big expiring contract for 24-25 and maybe some light production.

With the stretch his cap hit will be 8.37m for the next 5 years. What is available this offseason to forgo 8m for 3 seasons?

 

[clonetrooper264]

If medical retirement isn't an option yet then i say do nothing. Surely if this surgery is unsuccessful we have a bonafide case to get him removed and if successful we have a big expiring contract for 24-25 and maybe some light production.

With the stretch his cap hit will be 8.37m for the next 5 years. What is available this offseason to forgo 8m for 3 seasons?

Probably nothing this offseason. Saving the ~12M in the upcoming offseasons would be the more valuable benefit. Mind you, in today's NBA 8M per season is like MLE level money or less. The cap has basically doubled from what most of us are used to and thus contracts have scaled accordingly. It's role player money, but you can find yourself a replacement with that money that's at least serviceable.