Bears are 1st in the NFL with 32 sacks as a team

remydat

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PFF has to be doing something way different. The fact they gave both Mack and Hicks way more pressures obviously shows they're being more liberal in some manner.

Back when I subscribed to them, years ago before they started charging $200 for what used to be $30, they defined it as I said. Maybe changed recently. certainly still doesn't make sense. You said they gave Mack 59 pressures last year while PFR gave him 31. And gave him 22 this year while PFR gave him 9. Obviously PFF is far more liberal in giving credit for pressures. It's as if they give them away as one would candy on Halloween. Is it just different players they favor for whatever reason? Or you made a mistake and gave the total combined tackles number as the total pressures number.
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Nah that is the total. First one is Mack pressures from last year. Second is total pressures for Bears in 2021.

I think PFF is more accurate. First they have been doing it for longer as PFR only started tracking Hurries since 2018. 2nd PFF actually sells their data to NFL teams which means teams actually think their data is somewhat more reliable.


Finally the PFR data makes little sense. Look at Mack. You can see I am right that the advanced data starts 2018 but look at his hurries. PFR is claiming that Mack has 6 sacks, 1 QBhit and only 2 hurries. There is no fucking way Mack only has 2 hurries.

Pass Rushers always have more hurries than sacks so it makes no fucking sense. PFF has him at 16 hurries which makes far more sense that 2 hurries and 6 sacks.

There is a reason PFR data is free.
 
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Aesopian

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That might be why there hasn't been love for the DC.

Pretty easy question to answer.

Matt Nagy and Ryan Pace not that complicated.

Just saying Desai deserves some respect for doing a good job at getting the QB but CCS takes it as I'm saying Desai is the greatest DC the world has ever seen. You don't need to exaggerate everything.
 

Spartan

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Nah that is the total. First one is Mack pressures from last year. Second is total pressures for Bears in 2021.

I think PFF is more accurate. First they have been doing it for longer as PFR only started tracking Hurries since 2018. 2nd PFF actually sells their data to NFL teams which means teams actually think their data is somewhat more reliable.


Finally the PFR data makes little sense. Look at Mack. You can see I am right that thr advanced data starts 2018 but look at his hurries. PFR is claiming that Mack has 6 sacks, 1 QBhit and only 2 hurries. There is no fucking way Mack only had 2 hurries and 1 QB. Pass Rushers always have more hurries than sacks so it makes no fucking sense. PFF has him at 16 hurries which makes far more sense that 2 hurries and 6 sacks.
It's the hurries that's mucking it and the only real subjective part. I would tend to side with the lower numbers in that case since it is subjective. The sacks and hits are virtually the same. If 1 is to be honest, don't usually hear Mack's name called until he does get a sack. Haven't seen that much that I would constitute as pressure from him. Watching games with Watt last year, you'd constantly hear his name and could see why PFR had him far in front with 61 pressures. How many did PFF give him? And why do you pay $300 for PFF? LMAO
 

Spartan

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Appears Watt got much less of a PFF boost than Mack last year while Barrett got an astronomical PFF boost. Maybe players paying a fee for better PFF stats?
 

remydat

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It's the hurries that's mucking it and the only real subjective part. I would tend to side with the lower numbers in that case since it is subjective. The sacks and hits are virtually the same. If 1 is to be honest, don't usually hear Mack's name called until he does get a sack. Haven't seen that much that I would constitute as pressure from him. Watching games with Watt last year, you'd constantly hear his name and could see why PFR had him far in front with 61 pressures. How many did PFF give him? And why do you pay $300 for PFF? LMAO

Again one site sells data to NFL teams and one doesnt. One site provides free data to the public and the other charges. One site claims Mack only has 2 pressures all year while the other says he has 16.

I pay for it because it is small change for me and I find the data useful.
 
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Spartan

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Again one site sells data to NFL teams and one doesnt. One site provides free data to the public and the other charges. One site claims Mack only has 2 pressures all year while the other says he has 16.

I pay for it because it is small change for me and I find the data useful.
Dammmn. LMAO. Was it when Collinsworth got involved that the price skyrocketed like that? I do realize NFL teams use PFF a lot but you don't think that opens up some of the more subjective ratings to be exposed to chicanery?
 

remydat

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Dammmn. LMAO. Was it when Collinsworth got involved that the price skyrocketed like that? I do realize NFL teams use PFF a lot but you don't think that opens up some of the more subjective ratings to be exposed to chicanery?

Thought he was involved before that. I think they have a cheaper version that is like 40 bucks that is more for fantasy football and an elite version for 200 that includes the grades and stats. It gets into the thousands if you are a media member and/or want to publish their data.

As for chicanery, I suppose anything is possible but without any actual evidence of it, not much value on presuming it.
 

Outlaw Josey Cutler

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On one hand you guys are saying Desai should have played max coverage but then when he plays a max coverage like Cover 3 with 3 deep guys, you are saying he shouldnt play that since Vildor was one of the deep guys.

Not at all what I said, but why bother? You don't read my posts. You scan, grab a phrase that ignites a contrary spark and run with it.

This argument is so absurd.

Oh no doubt, but as a wise sage on CCS who went by the handle of remydat taught everyone: "It takes two to vortex".
 

remydat

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Not at all what I said, but why bother? You don't read my posts. You scan, grab a phrase that ignites a contrary spark and run with it.



Oh no doubt, but as a wise sage on CCS who went by the handle of remydat taught everyone: "It takes two to vortex".

See below.

Cover 3 gives safety help on inside breaking routes not deep verticals. This is objective fact. Desai should not have had them in Cover 3.

Cover 3 is NOT safety help for the corners deep and Vildor got beat deep in cover 3 per your own image.

Here you are saying he should not have called Cover 3. You are saying Vildor needs help and my point is that can only happen in Cover 1 or Cover 2 which means less deep protection as the deep defenders have more ground to cover.

Cover 3 or 4 almost always means no S help for the CB because the CB has his own deep zone to cover along witht he Safeties.

So the point is if you want more guys to protect the deep zone then the CBs have to play the deep zones with no help in their deep zone.
 
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Outlaw Josey Cutler

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Cover 3 or 4 almost always means no S help for the CB because the CB has his own deep zone to cover along witht he Safeties.

Yep

You are saying Vildor needs help and my point is that can only happen in Cover 1 or Cover 2 which means less deep protection as the deep defenders have more ground to cover.

Cover 2 gives less deep protection than Cover 3? Citation needed on this one. Oh wait I see what you are doing. You are saying that IF Vildor gets S help in Cover 2 then that takes the S out of his deep 1/2 zone.

If that is what you mean. that's not true. The S on Vildor's side sticks his zone and the window on top of Vildor in front of the S running over as the ball is out of QB's hand is tighter than Cover 3 where the safety is single high and needs more ground to cover after the QB looks Vildor's way. So much ground that the S is not really a help - nor designed to be in Cover 3.

If that's not what you mean, I'll need clarification. Thanks.
 

pablovi

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You fail to recognize Vildor had S help on 2 of the 3 plays in question.

It is also stupid to say Vildor cant be put in a Cover 3 when you are protecting the deep pass. If you want more guys covering deep zones you have to use CBs.

This argument is so absurd. On one hand you guys are saying Desai should have played max coverage but then when he plays a max coverage like Cover 3 with 3 deep guys, you are saying he shouldnt play that since Vildor was one of the deep guys.

You cannot have 3 or 4 guys covering a deep zone without having a CB being one of those guys.
I’m not saying don’t put him there, just not alone.
The plays I was referring to, he played Cover 1, that’s what the announcer said.

Yeah, play cover 3, just don’t make Vildor the lone cover on a deep zone, if he sucks so much.
 

remydat

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Yep



Cover 2 gives less deep protection than Cover 3? Citation needed on this one. Oh wait I see what you are doing. You are saying that IF Vildor gets S help in Cover 2 then that takes the S out of his deep 1/2 zone.

If that is what you mean. that's not true. The S on Vildor's side sticks his zone and the window on top of Vildor in front of the S running over as the ball is out of QB's hand is tighter than Cover 3 where the safety is single high and needs more ground to cover after the QB looks Vildor's way. So much ground that the S is not really a help - nor designed to be in Cover 3.

If that's not what you mean, I'll need clarification. Thanks.

Cover 2 means 2 guys each covering half the field deep.

Cover 3 means 3 guys each covering a 1/3 of the field deep.

Naturally the latter offers more cover deep because each guy has less field to cover.

This is why one of the ways to beat Cover 2 is to throw deep sidelines which is why the underneath guy usually has to play trail technique and carry the WR down the field more in Cover 2 to give the QB a smaller window and the S more time to get to the sideline.

In Cover 3, you dont play trail technique as much because the CB is already closer to the sidelines. Hence if you watch the replay the underneath defender does not trail Duverney as in Cover 2. He lets him go expecting that Vildor can close that window which he would habe been able to do if he hadnt stupidly turned inside to follow another WR that the deep middle guy was picking up.
 

remydat

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I’m not saying don’t put him there, just not alone

Again this is what makes no sense. I Cover 3 the CB has yo be alone because HE IS THE DEEP HELP FOR A 3RD OF THE FIELD.

There is no D where 2 guys cover the dame deep zone. Cover 3 requires 3 deep guys 2 of which are almost always corners because thry are ready near the sidelines. Then one safety drops down to cover an undeath zone while the 3rd S covers the deep middle.

So you cant give a CB rssponsible for a deep zone help as the whole point of Cover 3 is for the entire 160 feet from sideline to sideline to be covered by 3 people. Each has to cover about 53.3 feet. If you are saying Vildor still needs help in his deep zone then it isnt Cover 3.
 

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