Bears had dinner with C Juice Scruggs at Penn State Pro Day

[TheRightWay]

Funny how everyone wants Poles to go full Pace Special person mode again signing every Old Ass Expensive player again...Screw that!

I love what Poles is doing....BUILD THRU THE DRAFT!! Great players will shine without great supporting cast like MJ did,
lF you GOT IT, You GOT IT!!
It's going to take 1 more year to rebuild this time....Just have some dang patience

 

[mattb78]

Should almost always draft BPA, hard to do that with huge holes

Respectfully that's 100% incorrect. It's easiest to draft BPA with a thin roster because there is less chance the best player will already be a position you have filled and don't really need.

The more roster holes you have, the more likely the BPA will be a position you need anyway.

 

[MDB111™]

I like you but this might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen you post.

You think you can’t look back at any FA ever and find tons of guys that were huge impact or good players that for whatever reason or another weren’t resigned by their prior team? Seriously?

You seriously don’t think there is a difference in early FA vs late FA cuts? Come on now

To be fair, if a team loves the player but has no money, that'd be the only scenario.

But take Dremont Jones for example. Bright, shiny object of CCS affection this offseason.

Broncos didn't want him. They literally let a player that "great" walk? Probably not. Odds are they didn't like him. Because they literally spent hundreds of millions of dollars on new guys like McGlinchey. So they had the money to sign him if they chose.

So that's what Baba is touching on... I think? Jones was literally a cast off, no matter how you look at it.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Not just that. I bet the RTs that were drafted in round 1 were mostly projected at LT, leaving the LT hole open when they didn't succeed. Would they have been taken that early with that RT precognition?

I only see two situations where a GM would draft a OT high with the intention of playing him at RT:

1. He has a really good but really old LT already.
   1. He could draft the OT to play a couple of seasons, fix his weaknesses while playing as a RT and be the heir-apparent for the LT when he either retires or becomes too expensive to keep.
2. He has a promising young LT but wants to add a safety net if that young LT does not progress.
   1. He fills the RT spot while having a really good player to fill in if the LT doesn't progress or is injured.
   2. This way, the team does not have to rely on a substitute level player at the all important LT position if the LT is hurt or bad.

I could see Poles going this way with a LT at #9 or filling that need late day 2 or on day 3.

 

[Mdbearz]

To be fair, if a team loves the player but has no money, that'd be the only scenario.

But take Dremont Jones for example. Bright, shiny object of CCS affection this offseason.

Broncos didn't want him. They literally let a player that "great" walk? Probably not. Odds are they didn't like him. Because they literally spent hundreds of millions of dollars on new guys like McGlinchey. So they had the money to sign him if they chose.

So that's what Baba is touching on... I think? Jones was literally a cast off, no matter how you look at it.

The Ravens are in a situation where they have lost a couple of players because of the Laram Jackson situation. They can not spend money because they need to be able to pay the $32M franchise tag or a long term contract.

Ben Powers was home grown and finally found a spot at guard and had a great season last year but the Ravens could not afford to pay him the market price....

So he was not an outcast, he was a legit cap loss...of course he did sign right away with Denver as soon as FA opened, so he was not in the same category as any one we would pick up now in FA, but there is always a guy or two that becomes less valuable to a team after the draft, but still can play well....

I am among the group that feels like Poles did not do enough to fix the Center position, YET.

The reality is sometimes you need to gamble that a person on the roster can handle the position, or that a draft pick will be available.

 

[Bearly]

I only see two situations where a GM would draft a OT high with the intention of playing him at RT:

1. He has a really good but really old LT already.
   1. He could draft the OT to play a couple of seasons, fix his weaknesses while playing as a RT and be the heir-apparent for the LT when he either retires or becomes too expensive to keep.
2. He has a promising young LT but wants to add a safety net if that young LT does not progress.
   1. He fills the RT spot while having a really good player to fill in if the LT doesn't progress or is injured.
   2. This way, the team does not have to rely on a substitute level player at the all important LT position if the LT is hurt or bad.

I could see Poles going this way with a LT at #9 or filling that need late day 2 or on day 3.

I don't mind him taking one but I'd rather see it with a trade down. I believe Poles thinks he has his LT so would be effectively drafting his RT regardless of which side they end up on, as in, that's the overall gain. I don't want that at 9 when you're still in elite player range. I'd rather let someone else trade up for that, get another viable pick plus get that RT later in the round. That said, I hope a true target DL falls to 9 and we just do that.

 

[rawdawg]

It's interesting that the teams that have shown the most interest in Scruggs are the Bears, Niners and Dolphins. All like their linemen to be athletic movers. And while Scruggs does show some ability to get to the 2nd level in the run game, he doesn't have great foot speed. I feel like he's a guy that gets to where he's going when he's on the offensive (aka knows where the play is going and his blocking assignment), but I don't feel like his feet are quick enough to handle counter moves and he will have trouble when Fields moves in the pocket as defenders will adjust their paths to the QB when the target moves, and I don't think Juice has shown the quickness in his feet to move with said defender.

That being said, that kind of feels coachable. You can't really speed up his feet, necessarily, but you can coach him to be more prepared for counters and anticipate the QB movement in the pocket and the resulting movement of the defender.

 

[mattb78]

I only see two situations where a GM would draft a OT high with the intention of playing him at RT

The positional value is just not there for a top 10 RT. You would have to be unable to trade out of the pick and have incredibly low grades on the remaining selections.

 

[Britbuffguy]

This literally explains the flaw in not addressing needs in FA. Not saying they should massively overpay or sign tons of players but poles did little to address O Line and D Line in FA. Meaning there are huge needs going into the draft.

Should almost always draft BPA, hard to do that with huge holes

You're not saying Poles should've overpaid for bums, but then flag him for doing just that.

 

[SugarWalls]

Respectfully that's 100% incorrect. It's easiest to draft BPA with a thin roster because there is less chance the best player will already be a position you have filled and don't really need.

The more roster holes you have, the more likely the BPA will be a position you need anyway.

I see your point but idk.

Teams like the chiefs for example - perennial SB favorites. What holes do they have at this point?

The fewer needs you have allows you to take a swing at a top tier talent at many positions as you can move off of guys when they become too expensive like what they have done with many vets.

If you draft the best guys for your system and let them develop a year or two you can easily plug and play.

When you reach for a player out of need, don’t give them time to develop, they typically underperform or bust. This is why at the time I didn’t mind the claypool trade because poles had the foresight to see the draft and FA didn’t have the talent, so he filled the hole as to not have to overpay an FA or reach on a player in the draft.

 

[SugarWalls]

You're not saying Poles should've overpaid for bums, but then flag him for doing just that.

I actually like pretty much all the signings he made. The Edwards deal seems like robbery. I expect Tremaine Edmonds to be great, though I don’t love the contract.

Last year poles did borderline nothing to address the offense. He signed scrap heap OL and WR’s and by halfway through the season it was a complete nightmare with pettis being a drop machine, ESB mostly a non factor, OL in absolute shambles. We do remember how bad this team was before the patriots offensive explosion right?

We do remember that Justin fields was pretty injured half way through the year right? Getting cramps, injured shoulder, taking too many hits either behind LOS or as a runner.

I swear it’s like everyone has already forgotten the bears finished dead last in the NFL last year.

I see JF as the first true shot at a franchise QB in a long long time. I’d hate to see that ruined by a serious injury.

He addressed the WR’s and that should be a huge step up from last year.

Hoping he addresses the OL in the draft because he didn’t do much in FA

 

[JoJoBoxer]

The positional value is just not there for a top 10 RT. You would have to be unable to trade out of the pick and have incredibly low grades on the remaining selections.

I gave you a situation that is very Bears related as a possibility, to fill the RT need but to have a LT prospect in case Braxton fails or gets hurt.

Who is going to play LT if Braxton is injured in 2023 and the Bears filled their RT spot with a day 3 pick who is more of a RT hole filler than an actual LT starter level draft pick?

It is a real concern, which needs to be addressed before the season or lived with if it actually happens, who starts at LT if Braxton is not available?

 

[DrGonzo]

Respectfully that's 100% incorrect. It's easiest to draft BPA with a thin roster because there is less chance the best player will already be a position you have filled and don't really need.

The more roster holes you have, the more likely the BPA will be a position you need anyway.

Having nothing is almost like having it all. I think BPA was an easier play last year and why ultimately I don't fault Poles for taking Gordon and Brisker.

Fact is this year there are fewer needs. So if he takes Bijan or JSN he better be 100% sure he's taking a game breaker and perennial all pro.

 

[Payton!34]

BPA drafting is a pipe dream if you’re building a team from scratch.

It’s BPA for this team. If you need a center and a rb is there graded much higher but the center is still good, the team 9/10 is drafting the center.

BPA is a good theory but hardly ever used in practice.

 

[Payton!34]

What confuses me is that the only lineman signed was a RG, literally replacing our best lineman on the team?

There must be plans we don’t know about!

 

[pdxbearsfan]

Why the fuck would they pass on solidifying the interior o line for the first time in like ten years just to draft a developmental guy for? I don't think people give enough credit to how impactful a great center can be.

Look at the hype for Carter. What was it for? Attribute one was his ability to collapse the interior pocket. Look at the two super bowl teams. They both had great interior d line play. That can be totally neutralized with a great center and if fields doesn't have interior pressure they are all fucked IMHO. Draft the Minn kid or the OSU kid and plug and play. They have the resources to afford it

You're right and we need a good young C in a bad way more so than a great RT.

 

[The Big Grabowski]

Having Whitehair and Patrick actually creates the competition you want. You can draft a guy to come in and compete with vets to start in year 1, but you have a viable backup plan if the rookie needs time.

Legitimately, there are probably 5 guys at center you can draft in rounds 2-4 who could come in and start and would be a massive upgrade from Mustipher. My favorite fit is Luke Wypler from Ohio State. He has the quicks to reach block. He has the power to take on monsters. Watch him against Jalen Carter last year. His technique is sound, and he has an elite RAS score at 9.28.

 

[run and shoot]

@1;26.....he says he'd feel more comfortable at Center. We'll have to see how it shakes out?
@4:23......He talks about what he brings to the table as a player.

 

[2MuchChino]

Nothing screams success like signing a player late in FA that another team deemed disposable!

If you're suggesting the Bears whiffed on FA without also mentioning how poor this FA crop was and without acknowledging how much depth we need, then you should not be surprised when people don't find your comments credible.

The Bears did about as well as they could. They didn't overpay for mediocre talent. They upgraded several positions and now they will turn their attention to filling depth later in FA. Success generally comes from having a thorough plan and then following it.

 

[Wild_x_Card]

This literally explains the flaw in not addressing needs in FA. Not saying they should massively overpay or sign tons of players but poles did little to address O Line and D Line in FA. Meaning there are huge needs going into the draft.

Should almost always draft BPA, hard to do that with huge holes

BPA is an absolute myth and nothing but cookie cutter GM speak. Especially in the first two rounds. You can comb over the last ten drafts and you'll clearly see a trend of teams taking BPA at a position of need.

Later in the draft you'll find more pure BPA type picks.

This was always going to be two year thing at minimum to get the entire roster up to snuff. And that's if everything goes well.

Very few teams have the luxury of going pure BPA throughout an entire draft. I'd say right now the eagles are about the only NFL roster in that boat. Even other other cream of the crop teams have needs.