Bears vs Rams Review - Was Nagy and Desai the problem?

remydat

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My conclusion in reviewing the tape is that Nagy is a problem but not in the way people are saying. Nagy's problem is his stupidity in going away from stuff that is working like Monty and the gimmick shit that kills momentum and drives. You can also say his problem is choosing Dalton over Fields. However, last night there was a lot of talk about the gameplan and playcalling that I thought sort of missed the point.


27 seconds - This is a mistake I expect from Fields not Dalton. Dalton stares down his WR and doesn't make sure the guy in a zone over Kmet follows him. This play call is actually 100%, it is Dalton that fucks this up. You have to throw off the defender that tips the ball. If he stays with Kmet then you throw to Mooney. If he lets Kmet go then you throw to Kmet. This is actually a TD and likely changes the whole dynamic of the game if Dalton makes the right play instead of staring down Mooney.

1:33 - Again this is 100% Dalton. Kmet is wide open and if Dalton leads him it is probably a 15-20 yard gain on 4 and 4. So we get a FG or TD out of this drive. Instead, he throws to ARob who has 2 guys in his area and throws it a bit behind him. Again there is nothing wrong with this play call or decision to go for it. It is wide open if Dalton just makes the right read.

2:27 - This is laughable from Peters. If you freeze this, Peters is backpedaling without engaging anyone because he is unsure regarding whether he is supposed to help with Donald or block the outside man. As the RB releases, I have no fucking idea who Peters thinks is going to block the RE and in the end he is basically responsible for double pressure. He doesn't help on Donald who pushes back Whitehair and so Dalton can't step up and he doesn't block the RE until it is too late so he gets a hand on the pass. Again, this isn't really a playcall or coaching issue. Whitehair and Peters are the two most experienced lineman on the team. This is just fucking atrocious communication and execution.

Not shown - There was a 3 and 2 at Rams 47 at 7:29 of the 2nd quarter and Dalton throws on the money to ARob but there was clear PI where the defender hit him before the ball was there that the refs missed. So that is another opportunity missed that had nothing to do with Nagy.

7:21 - Again this has nothing to do with Nagy really. 2 vets fucking up again. Freeze the tape at this moment and Dalton is looking right at Monty and can easily throw the ball. This is first and 10 and you have been taking what the D gave you all night. The problem is he is 100% staring down Monty and the 3 defenders are all watching him. As Monty and ARob make no effort to block any of them and Dalton does a bit of a pump fake, I suspect this was actually supposed to be a deep shot to Mooney but Dalton takes to long to pull the trigger. Whitehair then gets completely mauled by Dalton and instead of a 2nd and 8 if he throws to Monty or a big play if he anticipates and throws over the top of the flat footed defenders, it is and 2nd and 25 instead.

At worst this is 15 points Dalton and the OL fucked up if you assume 5 FGs and at best it is 35 points as all of these fuck ups were in the Rams half of the Field. None of the above would have required some superhuman effort. All it would have required is Dalton and the OL to execute basic plays. So yes Nagy had his standard stupidity of going away from what is working and the gadget plays that go nowhere but he also put the team in position to score between 15 and 35 additional points if they had executed very simple plays.

So the issue for me wasn't Nagy's play calling. The issue was the argument for Dalton is he is suppose to make the plays above as he is supposed to be a vet that is decisive and throws with anticipation. He field miserably at that in key moments and it cost us 15-35 easy points. Fields may also have failed to see these plays but if the vet is not going to make these plays then no reason to play him.
 

remydat

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52 seconds - This is actually embarrassing. This is actually a 3 man route because CK and another WR stays in to block. One route is to Henderson short and away from the rollout. The other is an intermediate route that the defender has covered. So you literally have 3 guys with 1 guy to cover and they all manage to fuck it up. There is no real complexity or doubt as to who has whom. Johnson has Jefferson and as there is literally no one else on a route he has license to follow Jefferson deep. You have 2 deep safeties with fucking no one to cover except for Jefferson and they both let him get behind him. There is no magic coaching that would solve this. A high school safety could tell you his responsibility here. I could understand if there was an outside WR threatening the boundaries but there is absolutely NO ONE for them to cover but Jefferson.

5:17 - I don't know how a professional gets beat twice on the exact same fucking route just from the other side of the field. The CB is clearly expecting help but Gipson and Jackson both cover short guys and again let the WR run right be them on the post. It just makes no fucking sense and we aren't talking young guys who don't know any better. These are 2 vets and just got beat on the exact same play twice in the same game.

6:20 - This is your 2nd Team All Pro ILB letting Higbee just blow by him. Again, he is caught watching the QB and play action instead of actually covering his man. These are basic reads. Higbee makes no attempt on the supposed run play to block so why the fuck do you bite on the fake especially when the dude is running full speed past you.

6:29 - Ok Kuup made a nice play here but WTF are you diving for? The dude hasn't even completely turned to run yet so just tackle through him. Instead the idiot 23 decides to try and dive and tackle a guy he could have wrapped up. Then there is soft ass Jackson with a soft ass tackle.

That is 21 points on straight up stupidity from our formerly All Pro S making 15m a year and the All Pro ILB Bears fans have been masturbating too all summer. So fuck that, Desai aint perfect but fans like to blame coaches for the abject stupidity of players. Jackson was a disgrace last night and Roquan fucking shit the bed on that play.
 
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rawdawg

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I agree with everything you said, and those are great examples of mistakes that simply can't be made. But I refuse to absolve Nagy without knowing if it was Dalton not being willing/able to throw down the field or Nagy not being willing to push the ball down the field. I understand, the OL isn't good. I understand Jalen Ramsey is the best CB walking Earth right now. But Allen Robinson's route chart is unacceptable. Making a point to add Mooney, Goodwin, Byrd and Perriman (even though he was inactive) just to not use them to put pressure on the offense is inexcusable. Granted, IDK if that is the case because no all-22, but my fear is that this is the offense he thinks will work. Not even Fields can win with this style of offense against respectable teams.
 

remydat

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I agree with everything you said, and those are great examples of mistakes that simply can't be made. But I refuse to absolve Nagy without knowing if it was Dalton not being willing/able to throw down the field or Nagy not being willing to push the ball down the field. I understand, the OL isn't good. I understand Jalen Ramsey is the best CB walking Earth right now. But Allen Robinson's route chart is unacceptable. Making a point to add Mooney, Goodwin, Byrd and Perriman (even though he was inactive) just to not use them to put pressure on the offense is inexcusable. Granted, IDK if that is the case because no all-22, but my fear is that this is the offense he thinks will work. Not even Fields can win with this style of offense against respectable teams.

I think this was the offense he thinks will work against a team that does not go deep and the point I am making is technically he was right. Again that is 15-35 points this dink and dunk O left on the field because of poor execution.

Could he have attacked deep more? Possibly but why are we assuming they would execute deeper longer developing plays when they fucked up the dink and dunk in critical moments? And why take the risk when the dink and dunk gave you legitimately 7 scoring opportunities against the No 1 D last year. Are we saying 7 scoring opportunities is not enough?

The irony is when Trubisky scored 35 on this D dinking and dunking, there was widespread praise about how great Daboll was and how awesome Trubisky looked executing a dink and dunk strategy. The Bears did pretty much the exact same thing. The difference was Dalton failed execute it when it mattered. And perhaps that is the biggest indictment of Nagy here. He developed a gameplan that Trubisky likely would have executed better than Dalton. If only he would have done that last year.
 

Tillman33

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Dalton is a good guy. I’m sure he treats his family well, I’m sure he pays his taxes, I’m sure that when he’s called for Jury Duty he examines all of the facts carefully and passes an impartial decision. However, the guy is just flat out a terrible fucking quarterback at this stage in his career. I can’t think of any starting QB that’s worse than him, even Tyler Heneke or Ty Rod Taylor,I’d rather have them. This dude is soooo bad. He’s fucking awful. Extrapolate him over a 17 game season and you’ll be lucky to see the Bears drop 30+ points maybe 1 time.
 

ruprecht

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This is a very fair series of takes.
The offense should have put up more points and had chances to. Defense shit the bed. Maybe they improve...
How they did not call PI on the throw to 12 is beyond me.
Rams will make a deep run if they stay healthy, much as I hate to say it
 

buttscoot

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It's possible Ryan Pace told Nagy he has to start Dalton for x amount of games. Just a thought.

I also think Nagy sucks at calling plays. It's hard to watch.
 

Bust

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Bears had the momentum going into half time. Scored the last TD and only down 6.

Start of 3rd Quarter it only took Rams 4 plays to score capped off by the 56 yard TD with the help of the coverage having a brain fart. Again Dalton and the Bears offense answered tho with a 16 play 81 yard drive that took almost 10 minutes off the clock. Bears again only down 6 with the score 20-14. Defense comes back on the field well rested and allows the Rams to march 75 yards for another TD to pretty much seal it, lol
 

gallagher

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The rams are a very talented team that is going to compete in a very talented division. I'm not surprised with the loss, but I agree completely; we stood no chance because veteran players were screwing up on basic stuff.
 

ThatGuyRyan

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I think this was the offense he thinks will work against a team that does not go deep and the point I am making is technically he was right. Again that is 15-35 points this dink and dunk O left on the field because of poor execution.

Could he have attacked deep more? Possibly but why are we assuming they would execute deeper longer developing plays when they fucked up the dink and dunk in critical moments? And why take the risk when the dink and dunk gave you legitimately 7 scoring opportunities against the No 1 D last year. Are we saying 7 scoring opportunities is not enough?

The irony is when Trubisky scored 35 on this D dinking and dunking, there was widespread praise about how great Daboll was and how awesome Trubisky looked executing a dink and dunk strategy. The Bears did pretty much the exact same thing. The difference was Dalton failed execute it when it mattered. And perhaps that is the biggest indictment of Nagy here. He developed a gameplan that Trubisky likely would have executed better than Dalton. If only he would have done that last year.
Lol they did not. There were zero slants last night. All curls and comebacks

bush league bullshit
 

remydat

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Lol they did not. There were zero slants last night. All curls and comebacks

bush league bullshit

The 4th and 4 play where Kmet was wide open was a slant by ARob so you clearly were not paying attention.

You also failed to address how 7 scoring opportunities is bush league. Are you upset the Bears had so many opportunities to score?
 

Bearly

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My conclusion in reviewing the tape is that Nagy is a problem but not in the way people are saying. Nagy's problem is his stupidity in going away from stuff that is working like Monty and the gimmick shit that kills momentum and drives. You can also say his problem is choosing Dalton over Fields. However, last night there was a lot of talk about the gameplan and playcalling that I thought sort of missed the point.


27 seconds - This is a mistake I expect from Fields not Dalton. Dalton stares down his WR and doesn't make sure the guy in a zone over Kmet follows him. This play call is actually 100%, it is Dalton that fucks this up. You have to throw off the defender that tips the ball. If he stays with Kmet then you throw to Mooney. If he lets Kmet go then you throw to Kmet. This is actually a TD and likely changes the whole dynamic of the game if Dalton makes the right play instead of staring down Mooney.

1:33 - Again this is 100% Dalton. Kmet is wide open and if Dalton leads him it is probably a 15-20 yard gain on 4 and 4. So we get a FG or TD out of this drive. Instead, he throws to ARob who has 2 guys in his area and throws it a bit behind him. Again there is nothing wrong with this play call or decision to go for it. It is wide open if Dalton just makes the right read.

2:27 - This is laughable from Peters. If you freeze this, Peters is backpedaling without engaging anyone because he is unsure regarding whether he is supposed to help with Donald or block the outside man. As the RB releases, I have no fucking idea who Peters thinks is going to block the RE and in the end he is basically responsible for double pressure. He doesn't help on Donald who pushes back Whitehair and so Dalton can't step up and he doesn't block the RE until it is too late so he gets a hand on the pass. Again, this isn't really a playcall or coaching issue. Whitehair and Peters are the two most experienced lineman on the team. This is just fucking atrocious communication and execution.

Not shown - There was a 3 and 2 at Rams 47 at 7:29 of the 2nd quarter and Dalton throws on the money to ARob but there was clear PI where the defender hit him before the ball was there that the refs missed. So that is another opportunity missed that had nothing to do with Nagy.

7:21 - Again this has nothing to do with Nagy really. 2 vets fucking up again. Freeze the tape at this moment and Dalton is looking right at Monty and can easily throw the ball. This is first and 10 and you have been taking what the D gave you all night. The problem is he is 100% staring down Monty and the 3 defenders are all watching him. As Monty and ARob make no effort to block any of them and Dalton does a bit of a pump fake, I suspect this was actually supposed to be a deep shot to Mooney but Dalton takes to long to pull the trigger. Whitehair then gets completely mauled by Dalton and instead of a 2nd and 8 if he throws to Monty or a big play if he anticipates and throws over the top of the flat footed defenders, it is and 2nd and 25 instead.

At worst this is 15 points Dalton and the OL fucked up if you assume 5 FGs and at best it is 35 points as all of these fuck ups were in the Rams half of the Field. None of the above would have required some superhuman effort. All it would have required is Dalton and the OL to execute basic plays. So yes Nagy had his standard stupidity of going away from what is working and the gadget plays that go nowhere but he also put the team in position to score between 15 and 35 additional points if they had executed very simple plays.

So the issue for me wasn't Nagy's play calling. The issue was the argument for Dalton is he is suppose to make the plays above as he is supposed to be a vet that is decisive and throws with anticipation. He field miserably at that in key moments and it cost us 15-35 easy points. Fields may also have failed to see these plays but if the vet is not going to make these plays then no reason to play him.
When I think playcalling, I don't think of the plays themselves but the sequencing and substitutions. The plays are fine and always have been. Putting in Fields for an end around at midfield after Dalton has a good throw or pulling Monty while on a roll, timeouts before play calls because you don't have one ready is part of that for me. If the D isn't giving you deep, draw them deeper with those speed guys you wanted so bad and throw under them, etc.

You don't just take what's given and let the D dictate your calls. Make them react to you instead of the other way around.
 

Old Dirty Curtis

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My biggest beef with nagy is his decision making. Im not seeing anyone mention this but over 3 minutes left in the game and down 13 we stoped them on 3rd to set up 4th and 3 but nagy accepted a holding penalty making it 3rd and 13. He gave them another shot and the penalty didn't move then out of FG anyway. They ended up converting and running the clock down and scored.
Maybe I'm mistaken but that didn't seem wise to me. Can someone explain to me if I'm wrong about this.
 

remydat

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When I think playcalling, I don't think the of plays themselves but the sequencing and substitutions. The plays are fine and always have been. Putting in Fields for an end around at midfield after Dalton has a good throw or pulling Monty while on a roll, timeouts before play calls because you don't have one ready is part of that for me. If the D isn't giving you deep, draw them deeper with those speed guys you wanted so bad and throw under them, etc.

You don't just take what's given and let the D dictate your calls. Make them react to you instead of the other way around.

Well I already said he sucked when it comes to that stuff so no argument there. I suppose my point is despite him being stupid when it comes to the gimmicks or going away from the hot hand, those where not the things that killed us. What killed us is largely vets fucking up.

Would I prefer we dictate to the other team? Sure but that is just a preference. At the end of the day, a guy like Brady made a living just taking what the D gave him early in his career. You can win with either philosophy.

All I am saying is Nagy's chosen philosophy put his team in position to score 7 times. At some point like Nike they just need to just do it.
 

remydat

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My biggest beef with nagy is his decision making. Im not seeing anyone mention this but over 3 minutes left in the game and down 13 we stoped them on 3rd to set up 4th and 3 but nagy accepted a holding penalty making it 3rd and 13. He gave them another shot and the penalty didn't move then out of FG anyway. They ended up converting and running the clock down and scored.
Maybe I'm mistaken but that didn't seem wise to me. Can someone explain to me if I'm wrong about this.

No you are not wrong. I suspect he may have been worried they may go for it as a FG means it is still a 2 score game (30-14 instead of 27-14) albeit you would need 2 TDs and 2 2pt conversions.

Having said that, it was still a dumb decision to accept IMO.
 

Bearly

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Oh, and the play Borom got his ding is the same one that got Long's leg.
 

rawdawg

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I think this was the offense he thinks will work against a team that does not go deep and the point I am making is technically he was right. Again that is 15-35 points this dink and dunk O left on the field because of poor execution.

Could he have attacked deep more? Possibly but why are we assuming they would execute deeper longer developing plays when they fucked up the dink and dunk in critical moments? And why take the risk when the dink and dunk gave you legitimately 7 scoring opportunities against the No 1 D last year. Are we saying 7 scoring opportunities is not enough?

The irony is when Trubisky scored 35 on this D dinking and dunking, there was widespread praise about how great Daboll was and how awesome Trubisky looked executing a dink and dunk strategy. The Bears did pretty much the exact same thing. The difference was Dalton failed execute it when it mattered. And perhaps that is the biggest indictment of Nagy here. He developed a gameplan that Trubisky likely would have executed better than Dalton. If only he would have done that last year.
I just watched the highlights and looked at the boxscore for that Bills game (I know not much to go on), but I think the difference is that Bills offense used the entire field. The Bears dinked and dunked, but it was mostly to the outside. If the ball went in the middle, it was to Kmet or Williams. No concerted effort (per usual) to get their 3 speed WRs crossing the field and getting the Rams chasing. I don't believe any of the 12 catches from Goodwin, Mooney and Byrd were between the hashes. Hell, I don't think Robinson had more than 1 between the hashes and he was in the slot most. The Bills had a lot to WRs in the middle of the field (taking advantage of the Bears nickel situation). Then there were multiple plays in the highlights where the WRs cleared out the underneath for the TEs and backs to get YAC. I don't think you need to really have success deep, but you have to have a threat there, either to threaten or clear out so the defense isn't sitting on the short stuff.
 

Hal9000

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I think you have some pretty good takes on what happened in this game. However I will say this:

I think Matt is a good to great coach on Monday through Saturday.

I can tell because I have seen really good game plans from him before and could see what he was trying to do and usually with some degree of success or at least the opportunity for success depending on execution.

However, once he gets into a game, he makes questionable calls that kill drives and he has no sense of flow on how to call the offense.

Some of that is on players, yes. But better offensive coordinators know how to ride a hot hand when a player is popping off like Montgomery did last night, and instead he ran away from that on a number of occasions.

There is also a fundamental flaw with his offense as a designed concept. The Bears currently employ 33 different packages on offense. The NFL average is between 12 to 18. The shuttling of personnel constantly to and from the sideline is the reason why plays get in late and why we will see delay of games or stupid timeouts. The constant shuffling doesn't allow for the offense to find any sort of real rhythm or maintain it through a game.
 

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