Bulls 2022 Offseason Discussion Thread (FREE AGENCY)

clonetrooper264

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You might be right. Bulls might be able to trade him if they want to rebuild. Or, he hurts his knee and his value goes in the shitter. It’s a risk.

What we know now is that this team currently constructed is not a threat whatsoever and signing Zach to a max contract really limits what the bulls could do as far as the cap goes. How do they improve?
In short, they can't. At least not in one offseason.

Let's say you let Zach, either by S&T or letting him walk so you don't have to pay him, this team is not going to be better next season as a result. Maybe a couple years down the line when that cap space you've then freed becomes useful in FA, but relying on FA to sign a star usually just results in disappointment. And that leaves you again trying to build through the draft and just being bad year after year in order to get a shot at the top of the draft, or hope you strike gold. And that's not even to mention what possible PR impact not giving Zach the max could have on this FO. Does anyone still consider signing with Chicago after seeing them give up on Zach after 2 all star seasons? Maybe that doesn't matter, but maybe it does.

Long story short, either way you're risking on something. That's likely why everything the Bulls have said in their exit interviews has been along the lines of run it back let's see how we do with more continuity. I think AKME is playing a longer game here, and short of a big name forcing their way out of their current team (don't see that happening anywhere besides Utah), there's pretty much no move this offseason that will make the Bulls significantly better in terms of their roster construction.
 

Enasic

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In short, they can't. At least not in one offseason.

Let's say you let Zach, either by S&T or letting him walk so you don't have to pay him, this team is not going to be better next season as a result. Maybe a couple years down the line when that cap space you've then freed becomes useful in FA, but relying on FA to sign a star usually just results in disappointment. And that leaves you again trying to build through the draft and just being bad year after year in order to get a shot at the top of the draft, or hope you strike gold. And that's not even to mention what possible PR impact not giving Zach the max could have on this FO. Does anyone still consider signing with Chicago after seeing them give up on Zach after 2 all star seasons? Maybe that doesn't matter, but maybe it does.

Long story short, either way you're risking on something. That's likely why everything the Bulls have said in their exit interviews has been along the lines of run it back let's see how we do with more continuity. I think AKME is playing a longer game here, and short of a big name forcing their way out of their current team (don't see that happening anywhere besides Utah), there's pretty much no move this offseason that will make the Bulls significantly better in terms of their roster construction.

I like the proposed trade of Simons, Hart and #6 for Zach. Are the Bulls better next year? Likely not, but it wouldn’t be out of the question either depending on who they draft and if Simons takes a step. Bulls would also have more flexibility overall with the salary cap.
 

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I like the proposed trade of Simons, Hart and #6 for Zach. Are the Bulls better next year? Likely not, but it wouldn’t be out of the question either depending on who they draft and if Simons takes a step. Bulls would also have more flexibility overall with the salary cap.
If such a thing were on the table, sure you could entertain it. One could say Simons is also a risk as his season ended with a knee issue also (though counter argument, fake injury as the Blazers were tanking). There's also no guarantee he takes a step to be an All Star level player, of course that's true of anyone. Idk how Simons is defensively, I assume no better than Zach. Hart is a solid player, better than anyone the Bulls could hope to sign so no issues with him in a 6th man role or starting if Lonzo's knee is perma ded. At that point you're hoping for Simons to basically become Zach and then the #6 pick to blow up to a stud, ideally that player is a big as well given the roster needs.

Then if Simons pans out you have to extend him, whatever that ends up costing. I think his age would make it less than Zach's contract still, but you're also paying Hart's 12M, so I'm not totally sure what that looks like cap wise. Might be a push.
 

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If such a thing were on the table, sure you could entertain it. One could say Simons is also a risk as his season ended with a knee issue also (though counter argument, fake injury as the Blazers were tanking). There's also no guarantee he takes a step to be an All Star level player, of course that's true of anyone. Idk how Simons is defensively, I assume no better than Zach. Hart is a solid player, better than anyone the Bulls could hope to sign so no issues with him in a 6th man role or starting if Lonzo's knee is perma ded. At that point you're hoping for Simons to basically become Zach and then the #6 pick to blow up to a stud, ideally that player is a big as well given the roster needs.

Then if Simons pans out you have to extend him, whatever that ends up costing. I think his age would make it less than Zach's contract still, but you're also paying Hart's 12M, so I'm not totally sure what that looks like cap wise. Might be a push.
The good thing about Hart is he has a player option in 23 so he probably would test the waters in free agency which would give the bulls some added flexibility going forward.

I admittedly am not a cap expert nor do I have a particularly good pulse on the market, but I would guess a simons extension would be around 15-20 mil per year. If so, an optimistic view would be Simons continues to get better, out performs his contract, and they hit on the #6 pick. IMO, that’s a better scenario than giving Zach the max and not having any flexibility, but it could go sideways too (Simons being injury plagued/regressing and/or whiffing on #6).
 

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The good thing about Hart is he has a player option in 23 so he probably would test the waters in free agency which would give the bulls some added flexibility going forward.

I admittedly am not a cap expert nor do I have a particularly good pulse on the market, but I would guess a simons extension would be around 15-20 mil per year. If so, an optimistic view would be Simons continues to get better, out performs his contract, and they hit on the #6 pick. IMO, that’s a better scenario than giving Zach the max and not having any flexibility, but it could go sideways too (Simons being injury plagued/regressing and/or whiffing on #6).
I guess it really comes down to are you ok with building around Zach? Imo that doesn't necessarily mean you're completely locked into him as your best player on a theoretical championship team as you could still get someone else who could be that guy. Long term Bulls are really only locked into PWill (presuming he gets extended in 2 years), Lonzo and Zach if we assume they max him (and Caruso, but he's on a very team friendly deal). Perhaps the cap situation isn't quite as dire as having a max contract on the books would appear to be. By 2024 if it's not working Bulls could blow it up again and have a ton of cap space to work with.
 

Enasic

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I guess it really comes down to are you ok with building around Zach? Imo that doesn't necessarily mean you're completely locked into him as your best player on a theoretical championship team as you could still get someone else who could be that guy. Long term Bulls are really only locked into PWill (presuming he gets extended in 2 years), Lonzo and Zach if we assume they max him (and Caruso, but he's on a very team friendly deal). Perhaps the cap situation isn't quite as dire as having a max contract on the books would appear to be. By 2024 if it's not working Bulls could blow it up again and have a ton of cap space to work with.
Pretty torn on it, IMO. I don’t think LaVine makes a “max level” impact so committing max dollars to him seems a bit counter intuitive. That said, he’s still a very good player and could be a #2 or #3 on a championship team depending on the roster construction.

I guess all in all, I’m not married to either direction. If that hypothetical package were available, I’d probably lean in that direction but wouldn’t hate maxing LaVine out per say. I just don’t think it’s likely or realistic that the Bulls could max him out and still put together a championship team within in a few years.
 

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Pretty torn on it, IMO. I don’t think LaVine makes a “max level” impact so committing max dollars to him seems a bit counter intuitive. That said, he’s still a very good player and could be a #2 or #3 on a championship team depending on the roster construction.

I guess all in all, I’m not married to either direction. If that hypothetical package were available, I’d probably lean in that direction but wouldn’t hate maxing LaVine out per say. I just don’t think it’s likely or realistic that the Bulls could max him out and still put together a championship team within in a few years.
And that's a fair thought imo. I don't think this team goes anywhere with Zach as their best player. But I don't think maxing him eliminates the possibility that we can get a #1 player, and indeed even if we got that stud, you still need someone like Zach to support him. Does it happen in 2 years? Probably not, but maybe it could happen by year 5 of his deal. Maybe it doesn't at all...it's just really hard to make a contending team and so much has to go right. At least with Zach the team can be a dark horse option if things go well even if we don't get a superstar. Without Zach even if we fix all the role players you then need to both replace his production and still get the super.

Also who really knows if a team is willing to give up a lotto pick and a player for Zach. If that Simons scenario did go through, I think at that point you're planning to contend in like 3-4 years, near the end of Zach's contract anyway. I don't think the timeline truly changes that much for near future contention, but perhaps your future is a little brighter if PWill and that #6 pick can be franchise cornerstones.

I guess perhaps what I'm saying is Zach doesn't really hinder the team from being able to contend in the next couple years if he's maxed...he's not really the problem per se. He's flawed sure, but so are many players.
 

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And that's a fair thought imo. I don't think this team goes anywhere with Zach as their best player. But I don't think maxing him eliminates the possibility that we can get a #1 player, and indeed even if we got that stud, you still need someone like Zach to support him. Does it happen in 2 years? Probably not, but maybe it could happen by year 5 of his deal. Maybe it doesn't at all...it's just really hard to make a contending team and so much has to go right. At least with Zach the team can be a dark horse option if things go well even if we don't get a superstar. Without Zach even if we fix all the role players you then need to both replace his production and still get the super.

Also who really knows if a team is willing to give up a lotto pick and a player for Zach. If that Simons scenario did go through, I think at that point you're planning to contend in like 3-4 years, near the end of Zach's contract anyway. I don't think the timeline truly changes that much for near future contention, but perhaps your future is a little brighter if PWill and that #6 pick can be franchise cornerstones.

I guess perhaps what I'm saying is Zach doesn't really hinder the team from being able to contend in the next couple years if he's maxed...he's not really the problem per se. He's flawed sure, but so are many players.
Tbh, I don’t think Portland would make that deal. I believe they’re high on Simons and if they’re gonna wheel and deal, they likely trade Lillard.

Bulls are really in the drivers seat with LaVine though. They could max him out if they want and Zach almost assuredly accepts. If he’s hell bent on leaving, they could work out a sign and trade if a good enough package is out there. One thing is pretty certain though…Zach is not going to leave money on the table
 

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Tbh, I don’t think Portland would make that deal. I believe they’re high on Simons and if they’re gonna wheel and deal, they likely trade Lillard.

Bulls are really in the drivers seat with LaVine though. They could max him out if they want and Zach almost assuredly accepts. If he’s hell bent on leaving, they could work out a sign and trade if a good enough package is out there. One thing is pretty certain though…Zach is not going to leave money on the table
Agreed on both fronts. If we're honest with ourselves, the most overwhelmingly most likely outcome is that Zach's re-signing for the max. I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that either.
 

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Agreed on both fronts. If we're honest with ourselves, the most overwhelmingly most likely outcome is that Zach's re-signing for the max. I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that either.
Yeah I think he returns on a max deal. There’s nothing wrong with that. The hope is he gets the knee taken care of and has a career year next season and beyond to go along with a healthy Zo and a bounce back year from Vuc. Sign an Andre Drummond and another shooter and perhaps BD gets things sorted defensively.
 

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Yeah I think he returns on a max deal. There’s nothing wrong with that. The hope is he gets the knee taken care of and has a career year next season and beyond to go along with a healthy Zo and a bounce back year from Vuc. Sign an Andre Drummond and another shooter and perhaps BD gets things sorted defensively.
Yeah, if all those things happens I think we'll have a better result next year in both regular season and playoffs. Still not a "contender" but definitely a watchable team and a fun team.
 

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Yeah, if all those things happens I think we'll have a better result next year in both regular season and playoffs. Still not a "contender" but definitely a watchable team and a fun team.
Hopefully. The team was super fun early in the year and then morphed into an equally painful team after the all star break (started sliding before then, though). I’m just hoping for a team that looks competent and shows grit/fight night in and night out. The complete fold jobs and routine blowout losses just can’t happen.
 

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I'll resurrect this thread to bring forth some realistic but unexciting options that could fill holes on this roster. Low floor, maybe high potential players depending on who they are. Only considering UFAs, no sign and trades, just players we can have for MLE or less and sign straight up.

For reference the MLE is about 10M for teams not in the luxury tax, about 6M for teams who are over the luxury tax. Even with re-signing Lavine Bulls should remain under the tax as far as I know.

1. Backup big
This is a giant gaping hole, but it'll be hard to get a game changer here with the resources available. You want someone who can defend and rebound, offensive ability is a bonus I think at the MLE and lower level of player. Here's some options

Thaddeus Young - He's old, but he thrived in this system. At 34 he'll probably be more willing to get paid MLE or less. Offense is lacking as far as scoring, but brings a big playmaking component to the bench while being a very solid defender. A pretty decent upgrade over all our bench bigs as of now.

Jalen Smith - A rare two way option at the 4 on this FA list. Did well given minutes in Phoenix and Indiana last year. He can hit the 3 and block shots and decent rebounder as well. Still young so that's a plus. A bit foul prone, but in ~25 mpg with Indiana he provided all we could ask for from a reserve big.

Bol Bol - Absolutely available, can block shots and hit 3s. Actually has a little bit of perimeter skill. Looks like a twig, but that's what makes him perhaps the most realistic option lol. Really low floor, potentially a high ceiling. Worst case he gives as much as Tony Bradley did. Best case, a 3 and D big? With limited options I say why not take a flyer and see what happens, especially if no better options present themselves.

Chris Boucher - I've actually heard him called not an NBA level player by some Raptors fans on Reddit, but again hits 3s and blocks shots so that's better than what we're getting. Approaching 30 so depending on salary expectations might be a reach, but he also had a relatively down year last year compared to the one before so perhaps his value is down enough to be in our range.

2. Shooters
Plain and simple we need more of them. Coby should be the one who really fits that role, but he's all over the place. Matt Thomas fits that role, but he can't get on the court.

Ben McLemore - Not particularly efficient and can't create his own shot (he doesn't have to here), but he's someone you can run plays for to get an open 3. Above average shooter, has some physical tools that he doesn't seem to know how to use properly, can't defend a cone. If he's more consistent than Coby on offense though, that's an improvement. All in all, a pretty realistic option for a shooter, not gonna wow anyone, but fits the role.

Bryn Forbes - shoots over 40% from 3, but lacking a great deal of size. Has shown though he can be an asset as a shooter if given opportunity. Of shooters available, he's probably one of the better options honestly. If we were to punt Coby somewhere else, he could slot right in and we'd probably see an improvement just because of the consistency shooting the ball.

Joe Ingles - Coming off a major injury and in the last years of his career. However, one of the few FAs available who actually has a little bit of size and shoots 40% from 3 for his career. High IQ player as well, always a plus. Due to the injury and age, unlikely to be a good defender anymore so putting him as only a shooter, but if he can recover some defensive ability that's a huge plus.

Mention for the lulz - Carmelo Anthony. He's not really realistic, but the man can shoot.

3. 3&D
The ever elusive ideal role player that every team needs. Troy Brown Jr was supposed to be this, but alas. This is going to be very hard to fill within this FA class

Victor Oladipo - He's actually probably not a realistic option if Miami wants to keep him, but if he's available he's worth a look. Hasn't been super consistent in the playoffs with Miami, but he's still getting his legs under him really and fought his way into the rotation. Really high upside if he's available for MLE or less.

Otto Porter Jr - If used properly and not making a huge salary, we'd have been totally fine with him the first time around. Probably the best SF option available in this role honestly. Again health is an issue, but better than the production we're getting from Troy Brown Jr.


Everyone on this list is flawed and can be argued against, so that's exactly why they were considered. However, they do fit the role and I tried to only consider players that would truly fit the roster as well. Imo there's no one realistically available who's going to vault this team into bona fide contender category, so don't bother with that, just fill some holes on your bench and see if you can hit close to 50 wins with a hopefully more healthy squad next year.

Side note, there's probably also GLeague players that you could take a flyer on (like Bol Bol) but I'm less familiar with them so didn't consider others.
 

Enasic

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Give me Andre Drummond or Montrezl Harrell as backup big and OPJ. Don’t know if that’s realistic or not. Draft BPA at #18 and then hope LaVine/Lonzo can stay healthy and Vuc can shoot the 3 closer to his career average (preferably better).
 

Enasic

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Oh yeah…Williams taking a MAJOR leap forward would be nice too.
 

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This would have greater impact than any FA the Bulls can sign
Yeah for sure. When the Bulls drafted him they knew he was a very raw prospect that was going to take time but they believed he had the highest superstar potential. Going into year 3, he needs to be more consistent and play at a level closer to an all star as opposed to just a guy….
 

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