Can we stop acting like Pagano is the major issue on defense?

[msadows]

I noticed the defense was worse last year and didn't think Pagano was good then. The talent is still good this year, but we've never had much depth. I think the defense will likely get worse as they are going to lose players and some will fall off, but I dont think Pagano is a scapegoat. I think the defense plays about as bad as they can because he's an awful coordinator and has an inability to scheme to help them. Same as Nagy with Mitch

We've had the most difficult schedule against two years in a row now, based on DVOA.

Our defense has been top 10 in DVOA both years.

2018 we had the 23rd most difficult defensive schedule.

That also goes into play with things.

Pagano is not a great DC, but yes, he is a scapegoat.

 

[Chicagosports89]

No, no i won't.

I admit when I'm wrong, unlike you.

I'm sorry, but pagano didn't make eddie jackson forget how to tackle and danny T. slow as fuck.

We all knew the decline in this defensive unit would eventually come. The funny thing is when its finally starting people are scapegoating the coach instead of the players. Classic chicago move.

Eddie Jackson could never tackle. He had some games in 2018 when that was pretty glaring

 

[ChiKhan]

Only one that fell off, who was on the roster last year, really, has been eddie and danny T.

The decline of danny was predictable. Eddie is a head scratcher.

You guys do realize pagano coached this defense last year, right?

You know, when eddie jackson was still fantastic in pass coverage?

Mack and hicks are still playing very well, mack just isn't playing as well as he usually does.

Quinn is a terrible acquisition. Gipson is our worst SS yet. We have rookies starting at corner. We have no nose tackle.

Why did Stafford throw for 400? Let me guess the Lions offense is that much more talented then the bears D?

 

[Chicagosports89]

Is that why they played much better last year with basically the same guys?

They've regressed both years under Pagano. Also they didn't have the same guys last year.

 

[msadows]

They've regressed both years under Pagano. Also they didn't have the same guys last year.

Sure, princess.

We were 7th in the NFL last year in pressures.

This year we are 22nd.

2018 = Pressure on 26.7% of dropbacks. 2019 = 25.2% 2020 = 21.8%.

That might be one of the reasons we get thrown all over.

 

[msadows]

Hard to succeed on offense without the ability to block the guys in front of you.

Hard to succeed on defense without the ability to beat the guys blocking in front of you.

We are doing neither well this year. It's why this team sucks. It's a simple formula. Being 22nd in pressures isn't going to make you a good defense in todays nfl.

 

[Wild_x_Card]

We've had the most difficult schedule against two years in a row now, based on DVOA.

Our defense has been top 10 in DVOA both years.

2018 we had the 23rd most difficult defensive schedule.

That also goes into play with things.

Pagano is not a great DC, but yes, he is a scapegoat.

You keep hanging your hat on that like it means something. The realty is there are some fundamental differences between the plays being called last year vs this year. Some of it has to do with injuries. Alot of it has to do with offensive coordinators had a full year of tape on Paganos scheme and have exploited it. This is easy to see for anyone who really understands what they're watching on tape.


It's true, the players have regressed, in part because thier defensive coordinator has been had and his adjustments have not played to his players strengths. Playing passive in soft zone shells.

You can take this to the bank. Regardless if Pace and Nagy stay. Chuck will be gone.

 

[msadows]

Why did Stafford throw for 400? Let me guess the Lions offense is that much more talented then the bears D?

IDK, might have something to do with mack and quinn combining for 1 tackle and nothing else.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

You do realize you are capable of changing your mind on players and coaches, right?

Also, pace signed Artie Burns. JJ WAS the depth. How many teams have 5-6 starting level corners?

I'm sorry, but when you can't rush the passer with your front 4, and have a bunch of scrubs playing DB you aren't going to have a good time on defense.

This unit only works when mack and co wreck havoc. If we don't get a consistent pressure with our front 4 we get destroyed in the pass game all day long.

No shit it’s the scheme lol. Teams attack underneath and the middle of the field taking away Mack and Quinn. Loafing, taking plays off, bad tackling it’s all over the defense and that is a result of poor coaching.

 

[msadows]

You keep hanging your hat on that like it means something. The realty is there are some fundamental differences between the plays being called last year vs this year. Some of it has to do with injuries. Alot of it has to do with offensive coordinators had a full year of tape on Paganos scheme and have exploited it. This is easy to see for anyone who really understands what they're watching on tape.


It's true, the players have regressed, in part because thier defensive coordinator has been had and his adjustments have not played to his players strengths. Playing passive in soft zone shells.

You can take this to the bank. Regardless if Pace and Nagy stay. Chuck will be gone.

Except thats not my point.

My point is we don't have the talent we used to. That won't change no matter who you put at DC. Danny T is old and busted. He can't cover anyone anymore. We have NO nose tackle. We're using guys off the street and practice squads. Gipson is worse than HaHa/Amos.

We got no corner depth because 3/4 of our top corners coming into the season are hurt.

Quinn was the worst signing this team has had in a long long time.

Yes, pagano is not perfect. I don't give a fuck about pagano. People need to realize the issues on defense run a lot more than pagano being a poor playcaller.

 

[msadows]

No shit it’s the scheme lol. Teams attack underneath and the middle of the field taking away Mack and Quinn. Loafing, taking plays off, bad tackling it’s all over the defense and that is a result of poor coaching.

We did not have this issue last year, but okay.

Guess the scheme changed in the offseason and no one told me

You know what did change tho? No nose tackle. No 2nd Edge Rusher. No slot CB. No 2nd ILB.

Ohh, and eddie jackson is straight trash. That has nothing to do with scheme, he just sucks.

 

[Chicagosports89]

Hard to succeed on offense without the ability to block the guys in front of you.

Hard to succeed on defense without the ability to beat the guys blocking in front of you.

We are doing neither well this year. It's why this team sucks. It's a simple formula. Being 22nd in pressures isn't going to make you a good defense in todays nfl.

And when a DC is 22nd in the league in pressures with Mack, Quinn, and Hicks it says a lot about his scheme. Some DC's get the best out of their players and others coast based off talent. I think we know what Pagano is

 

[msadows]

And when a DC is 22nd in the league in pressures with Mack, Quinn, and Hicks it says a lot about his scheme. Some DC's get the best out of their players and others coast based off talent. I think we know what Pagano is

And he was 7th in the league with floyd and hicks out for the majority of the season last year.

wtf lol

Doesn't that counter your point for getting the best out of talent when a bunch of scrubs and mack way outperform what we got now?

Mack had the same amount of pressures in 2019 as 2018. Floyd had basically the same number as this year. The only difference was they didn't finish, but they got to the qb a lot.

This team does neither.

 

[remydat]

Umm offenses adjust to schemes. The problem is Pagano still trying to figure out how to adjust back.

 

[Wild_x_Card]

Except thats not my point.

My point is we don't have the talent we used to. That won't change no matter who you put at DC. Danny T is old and busted. He can't cover anyone anymore. We have NO nose tackle. We're using guys off the street and practice squads. Gipson is worse than HaHa/Amos.

We got no corner depth because 3/4 of our top corners coming into the season are hurt.

Quinn was the worst signing this team has had in a long long time.

Yes, pagano is not perfect. I don't give a fuck about pagano. People need to realize the issues on defense run a lot more than pagano being a poor playcaller.

And to that point, you'd expect some sort of drop off. But a great coordinator can minimize the falling from the cliff. That's the difference. Every team deals with key injuries or absences. I never expected the bears to be a top 5 defense this year even if healthy. Not for lack of talent, but because Pags is average on a good day.

 

[msadows]

Its almost like not having a top 3 nose tackle to soak up double teams is really hurting this defense top to bottom.

 

[msadows]

Umm offenses adjust to schemes. The problem is Pagano still trying to figure out how to adjust back.

Yea, keep thinking that.

How is he going to adjust to eddie jackson not knowing how to cover a tight end or danny T being slow as fuck?

How about adjust for not having a true nose tackle on the team? Can he gain 300 pounds and go out there himself?

Pagano isn't a great coach, but the major issue with this unit is players and not scheme. They are not playing well.

 

[remydat]

Yea, keep thinking that.

How is he going to adjust to eddie jackson not knowing how to cover a tight end or danny T being slow as fuck?

How about adjust for not having a true nose tackle on the team? Can he gain 300 pounds and go out there himself?

Pagano isn't a great coach, but the major issue with this unit is players and not scheme. They are not playing well.

Who chose Danny T over Kwia? You defended that decision when people told you it should have been Kwia.

 

[msadows]

Seriously, meatballs who have never played football.

Pagano and Fangio run similar schemes. Arguably the most important position on the field is an athletic nose tackle. Goldman sat out. After that your entire dline was ruined.

We thought it wouldn't have much of an impact. It has. Heavily.

 

[remydat]

Seriously, meatballs who have never played football.

Pagano and Fangio run similar schemes. Arguably the most important position on the field is an athletic nose tackle. Goldman sat out. After that your entire dline was ruined.

We thought it wouldn't have much of an impact. It has. Heavily.

Which NFL team did you play for?