Can we stop acting like Pagano is the major issue on defense?

bamainatlanta

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We'll find out soon enough that he was an issue. I was hoping we'd get an attacking Pagano and he was way to passive for his system to be effective. He's not that difficult to attack when not disruptive.

The end of the 1st half vs New Orleans was a fucking disaster. Rewatch those defensive play calls and alignments. Why have Danny T on the field vs a 2 minute offense when they were dead set on throwing the ball and he can't cover anyone??
 

Raskolnikov

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Pagano disappointed me.

It was like he took the attitude that he had Mack and could just rush 3 with us.

I never understood the passivity, and he made everyone's job harder like that.

I would not be surprised to see Mack and Quinn explode in the new defense.
 

Visionman

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Pagano disappointed me.

It was like he took the attitude that he had Mack and could just rush 3 with us.

I never understood the passivity, and he made everyone's job harder like that.

I would not be surprised to see Mack and Quinn explode in the new defense.
I have always wondered if they passivity was a Nagy-led directive, or on Pagano himself. If it came from Nagy, it concerns me for the future, but it MAY have been because Nagy knew our offense was severely limited, so he needed to try to slow down the game as much as possible to have a chance. I guess we will see…
 

VashalasX

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Yes, he's not as good of a DC as fangio was. Few are, fangio was fantastic for years. Thats not a slight at pagano.

The major difference in this defense has nothing to do with playcalling or scheme, it all has to do with talent. Legit the opposite of our major issues on the offensive side of the ball. People blame pagano for not being aggressive, but don't understand why he can't be. It's all talent, we don't have the linebacker/db talent to blitz on a regular basis against good QB's.

On the dline, we have no real nose tackle. Hicks is getting doubled up a lot more. Nichols, while playing great, isn't a difference maker. The loss of Eddie Goldman shows up hard in the run game.

For linebackers, the only one playing well is roquan. He's having an all pro year, outside of that mack is having the worst year of his career. Granted, his worst year still makes a ton of previous #1 bears edge rushers look like jokes, but you expect more from him based on the cap hit. Quinn is mostly worthless. Seems like he's either hurt or doesn't fit this scheme. Danny T is a complete liability in pass coverage nowadays, and can't shed a block anymore. Thats where the goldman loss hurts the most. Lineman are getting to the second level, and its hurting Danny the most. He's just not athletic enough to get around slow ass linemen anymore.

In the secondary, fuller is having a great year. Lowest completion % of his career. There are no turnovers, however. Why? No pressures. We were bottom five in the NFL in pressures before the last couple weeks, now we are in the mid teens. That's still terrible considering what we have invested in the guys who should be rushing the QB.

Jaylon is fantastic for a rookie, but he has had plenty of mental lapses, which is to be expected. I can't critique him since he shouldn't have been put into this position this early. That Artie burns injury really hurt the secondary.

Outside of that, everyone in this secondary is trash. Legit trash. Skrine is one of the worst slot CB's in the league. Eddie is one of the worst FS's in the league. Gipson is decent, but worse than the last two SS's we had play next to jackson. The young guys are being thrown to the fire.

Overall, you can scapegoat whoever you want, but at the end of the day to me this feels no different from when the cubs tried to blame hitting and pitching coaches for their players inabilities. The issues on defense are all talent based. These guys just suck compared to 2018. Some fell off a cliff, some of them are new players who just suck. Either way, this isn't that talented of a D anymore.
Chuck Pagano was literally garbage as a defence coordinator and literally squandered the talent on defence making it appear to look like the talent wasn't as talented or in a state of regression but only to people with horribly wrong football takes such as the takes in the post that I'm replying toward right now.
 

Anytime23

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This is close enough
 

bamainatlanta

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This is close enough

I'm kind of angry I wasn't tagged in there. May not have been a meatball but was damn sure an apologist
 

botfly10

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I have always wondered if they passivity was a Nagy-led directive, or on Pagano himself. If it came from Nagy, it concerns me for the future, but it MAY have been because Nagy knew our offense was severely limited, so he needed to try to slow down the game as much as possible to have a chance. I guess we will see…

risk adverse defense tends to be the rule in the nfl

aggressive defense is pretty damn rare and doesn't correlate with success

(but yeah, Pagano was a downgrade from Fangio like everyone knew it was going to be, except a couple fools on here)
 

remydat

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risk adverse defense tends to be the rule in the nfl

aggressive defense is pretty damn rare and doesn't correlate with success

(but yeah, Pagano was a downgrade from Fangio like everyone knew it was going to be, except a couple fools on here)

The thing with Fangio is he was risk averse but disguised where guys were coming from so got pressure while rarely sending more than 4 or 5.

Pagano was risk averse but everyone knew where the rush was coming from.
 

Bearly

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The thing with Fangio is he was risk averse but disguised where guys were coming from so got pressure while rarely sending more than 4 or 5.

Pagano was risk averse but everyone knew where the rush was coming from.
Pagano works better when he's aggressive, looks like he's sending bunches but then backs guys off at the snap. Risk adverse is bad for him. While here, none of that happened and his D lacked any identity. You'd think that with these players he would have been less vanilla and change things up when not getting enough pressure. Neither our O or D has been dictating to an opponent for years. Hopefully that changes now with a more aggressive O and D that will take things away.
 

botfly10

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The thing with Fangio is he was risk averse but disguised where guys were coming from so got pressure while rarely sending more than 4 or 5.

Pagano was risk averse but everyone knew where the rush was coming from.

Also, broadly speaking, Fangio ran coverages that made shit much easier on DB's - beyond just the natural effects of a more effective pass rush

Dude is widely known as getting more out of DB's (especially safeties) than maybe any other current coach. You look at his time in SF and he had a whole string of successful veteran reclamation projects, with most of the DB's they brought in having career seasons. Same is mostly true for his time in Chi.
 

Milky

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Also, broadly speaking, Fangio ran coverages that made shit much easier on DB's - beyond just the natural effects of a more effective pass rush

Dude is widely known as getting more out of DB's (especially safeties) than maybe any other current coach. You look at his time in SF and he had a whole string of successful veteran reclamation projects, with most of the DB's they brought in having career seasons. Same is mostly true for his time in Chi.
The best thing Fangio did while he was here is let Jackson play his style of ball. I don’t ever remember seeing #39 in the box or near the LOS when he was here. Pagano misused Jackson several times a game.
 

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