Cubs Farm System And Prospects Discussion Thread

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,064
Liked Posts:
2,667
Location:
San Diego
That’s your answer to the 3B hole. One of the SS’s in the minor leagues ends up playing third.
Most have fallen off to be honest. 3B is not a great market ATM. That is why I was saying Rendon. Coming off the DL and to be honest a guy that Jed could take on contract for a low return so LAA could retain Otanhi. There have to be other options out there for trade but this one seems likely that LAA is in sell mode

Pitching wise the system is deep and the GM has a track record with Cleveland in producing quality pitching. I'm feeling that Jed gives Kyle his last year while the farm naturally fixes this issue. Wicks should be in Iowa next year. Chicago really is in a good place with starting pitching and in the 2nd half they ranked in the top 5 post ASG. For a bunch of subs that is pretty good.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,064
Liked Posts:
2,667
Location:
San Diego
Point to remember the 3 best runs of the Cubs they all had stable 3B production.

Santo
A Ram
Bryant.

It is not everything of course. But all 3 teams had a all star quality player there.
 

Castor76

Active member
Joined:
Nov 2, 2018
Posts:
701
Liked Posts:
113
Arenado is the only difference maker at the position available in FA. And he's going to cost 35-40M. Rendon would cost little prospect wise but that's 4 years worth of albatross if he doesn't bounce back.
 

knoxville7

I have the stride of a gazelle
Joined:
Jul 12, 2013
Posts:
12,307
Liked Posts:
7,720
Location:
The sewers
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Tennessee Volunteers
Most have fallen off to be honest. 3B is not a great market ATM. That is why I was saying Rendon. Coming off the DL and to be honest a guy that Jed could take on contract for a low return so LAA could retain Otanhi. There have to be other options out there for trade but this one seems likely that LAA is in sell mode

Pitching wise the system is deep and the GM has a track record with Cleveland in producing quality pitching. I'm feeling that Jed gives Kyle his last year while the farm naturally fixes this issue. Wicks should be in Iowa next year. Chicago really is in a good place with starting pitching and in the 2nd half they ranked in the top 5 post ASG. For a bunch of subs that is pretty good.
The fact that there are no good FA options at 3B is all the more reason the cubs fill 3B with a SS turned 3B.

don’t acquire washed up third basemen, when you can sign or bring up a SS that can play 3B. Use those FA dollars on trea turner instead and have your SS/2B duo set for the next 5 years in turner and Hoerner. when one of the SS prospects pans out and is legit ready for the big leagues, you have him play third or move turner to third.

but you absolutely don’t go acquiring contracts that are albatrosses to other teams and will be for ours. Youll just end up needing a third baseman again in another year and less resources to get one
 

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
8,528
Liked Posts:
5,805
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
I favor Bogaerts. He's a 29 yr old SS who started his career at 3B....switching back now would likely extend his career as third has far less ground to cover when his legs start to go.
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
29,064
Liked Posts:
15,847
Arenado is the only difference maker at the position available in FA. And he's going to cost 35-40M. Rendon would cost little prospect wise but that's 4 years worth of albatross if he doesn't bounce back.
Arenado is already discussing why Albert Pujols should come back to the Cardinals next year so it does not sound like he plans on moving on
 

Castor76

Active member
Joined:
Nov 2, 2018
Posts:
701
Liked Posts:
113
Arenado is already discussing why Albert Pujols should come back to the Cardinals next year so it does not sound like he plans on moving on

And he may not. I was just pointing out that he's the only real difference maker at 3B and what he might cost. He has 5 years and 144 M left on his deal. I figure any deal, if he goes to FA would have to be 6-8 yr with 35 AAV. I think the Cubs would be better off going SS myself.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,064
Liked Posts:
2,667
Location:
San Diego
And he may not. I was just pointing out that he's the only real difference maker at 3B and what he might cost. He has 5 years and 144 M left on his deal. I figure any deal, if he goes to FA would have to be 6-8 yr with 35 AAV. I think the Cubs would be better off going SS myself.


Top D 3B is Hayes from Pitt. 14.4 Def. Arenado #2 at 14.2

O wise Arenado 7.1 fWAR. Machado 7.0

Now Bogaerts is at 6.0 fWAR as a SS.

Current rankings for SS (F/A)
Swanson 6.0
Bogaerts 6.0
Turner 5.8
Correa 4.2

Hoerner is at 4.0 So TBH this is not a huge upgrade. 3B Wisdom holds a 1.ish. that is a huge upgrade.

D wise.

Swanson leads all SS at 19.6 Def.
Hoerner #4 13.8
Bogaerts 9.0
Turner 4.5
Correa 1.8

So IMO Correa is better off sticking with Minn. His value took a dive.

Swanson is the best SS on the market. But Horner is also a top end SS in all of MLB. So this is a small upgrade.

Bogaerts going back to 3B makes plenty of sense. As a SS he might be #2-#3 in the pecking order. 3B his value goes up in a weak 3B market. Turner is the best lead off available. Not the best SS available.
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
29,064
Liked Posts:
15,847
Top D 3B is Hayes from Pitt. 14.4 Def. Arenado #2 at 14.2

O wise Arenado 7.1 fWAR. Machado 7.0

Now Bogaerts is at 6.0 fWAR as a SS.

Current rankings for SS (F/A)
Swanson 6.0
Bogaerts 6.0
Turner 5.8
Correa 4.2

Hoerner is at 4.0 So TBH this is not a huge upgrade. 3B Wisdom holds a 1.ish. that is a huge upgrade.

D wise.

Swanson leads all SS at 19.6 Def.
Hoerner #4 13.8
Bogaerts 9.0
Turner 4.5
Correa 1.8

So IMO Correa is better off sticking with Minn. His value took a dive.

Swanson is the best SS on the market. But Horner is also a top end SS in all of MLB. So this is a small upgrade.

Bogaerts going back to 3B makes plenty of sense. As a SS he might be #2-#3 in the pecking order. 3B his value goes up in a weak 3B market. Turner is the best lead off available. Not the best SS available.
Nobody’s value is going to go up moving to third base. Your bat is your bat and your defense is more important at shortstop.

And current season war stats aside, Arenado is head and shoulders above the next best third baseman defensively.
 

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
8,528
Liked Posts:
5,805
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Nobody’s value is going to go up moving to third base. Your bat is your bat and your defense is more important at shortstop.

And current season war stats aside, Arenado is head and shoulders above the next best third baseman defensively.
Agreed. But as you said.....he's not going anywhere, so the point is moot. Bogaerts has an avg glove at best at SS, so a move to third might be
his best option. I like the fact that he's generally a .300 hitter with maybe 20 HRs and strikes out about half what our guy Wisdom is doing now.
I haven't seen much of him but he sounds like a Bill Madlock type to me.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,064
Liked Posts:
2,667
Location:
San Diego
You would have to look at his D metrics at 3B vs SS to have a sound judgement. Both positions are premium. Contract is based off of supply and demand. Weak market means that the position should pay off more. Strong market means that teams have more bargaining power reducing the contract.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,064
Liked Posts:
2,667
Location:
San Diego
Agreed. But as you said.....he's not going anywhere, so the point is moot. Bogaerts has an avg glove at best at SS, so a move to third might be
his best option. I like the fact that he's generally a .300 hitter with maybe 20 HRs and strikes out about half what our guy Wisdom is doing now.
I haven't seen much of him but he sounds like a Bill Madlock type to me.
.
I agree.

Roster if nothing done.

LF Happ
CF Davis
RF Suzuki
3B Morel
SS Hoerner
2B Madrigal
1B Mervis
C Gomes
DH Wisdom

Rotation

Hendricks
Steele
Thompson
Smyly
Wesneski

Closer Heuer
Set up Alzolay
Set up Killian

This team is not in a bad position at status quo. But upgrading 3B pushes Morel into a Javy role pre SS lock. Which suits him better.

C I think is decent with status quo. Not sure if Contreras at 31 will drop off.

Hendricks in last year and Kilian getting his feet stable in set up makes sense.

Smyly opt pulled and Wicks at Iowa.

3B seems the right choice.
 

JP Hochbaum

Well-known member
Joined:
May 22, 2012
Posts:
1,616
Liked Posts:
926
Guess the 2nd question is if they had to sign 1 big name only who would be the largest need. Not want to as that is subjective.

I feel that 3B is a hole. System has ziltch. Wisdom is a placeholder at best. SS has heavy depth but Hoerner is a solid MLB quality SS.

So in view of this and the pitching pending. 3B looks to be the area of concern. Catcher #2. #3 would be a TOR. Top tier SS falls under want unless that person slots at 3B.
We sign a short stop and move them to third.
 

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
8,528
Liked Posts:
5,805
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
I'm still saying they should resign Contreras....you will not find anything better either on the marketplace or in the system. Besides that, they would keep an excellent catching combo with Gomes in the mix. Gomes turned into a far better signing than I originally thought, the guy is the perfect backup catcher. Just signing Bogaerts and Contreras improves this team considerably and if Mervis turns into the real deal and a couple of the young pitchers step up.....you know, this is a weak division.....they may be in contention for a playoff spot as early as next year.

Is it a lot of things that need to fall into place? Sure it is....but stranger things have happened before in baseball.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,064
Liked Posts:
2,667
Location:
San Diego
I'm still saying they should resign Contreras....you will not find anything better either on the marketplace or in the system. Besides that, they would keep an excellent catching combo with Gomes in the mix. Gomes turned into a far better signing than I originally thought, the guy is the perfect backup catcher. Just signing Bogaerts and Contreras improves this team considerably and if Mervis turns into the real deal and a couple of the young pitchers step up.....you know, this is a weak division.....they may be in contention for a playoff spot as early as next year.

Is it a lot of things that need to fall into place? Sure it is....but stranger things have happened before in baseball.

My heart says the same. And if he signs around 22M per it could be a real option.


As far as contending. It really depends on pitching. 2nd half the staff has a top 7 era and it translated to +.500 ball.

So getting a healthy rotation is the most likely factor going into 2023. Hendricks is training for next year. Thompson and Steele looked like solid middle of the rotation pitchers. Then a potential ace.

I kinda forgot Stroman. Shoot he is going to get a spot for sure. Well see what happens.
 
Last edited:

Top