Cubs post trade deadline 2023 outlook

[Diehardfan]

There’s certainly a handful of really good SS/3B options for the cubs this offseason.

Cubs seem to have lots of OF prospects coming, not so much IF. This offseason seems like a good opportunity to nab one of those FA IF’s due to the abundance of them available and the slim number of teams that seem to have big time $$ and a need.

and ricketts said they plan on being big players this offseason in FA

I'd like to see them refrain from signing any long term pitching deals. I agree they need IF, preferably corner infielders.....they got all these young arms they drafted, let's develop them.

 

[CSF77]

I'd like to see them refrain from signing any long term pitching deals. I agree they need IF, preferably corner infielders.....they got all these young arms they drafted, let's develop them.

I agree 100%

But I doubt that it will be what is expected


Drury for 3B
Happ moves to 1B and extends.
Contreras extends
Velequez takes over LF Hold down for Davis
Morel sits on CF holding it down for Armstrong.
Reyes sticks with Cubs. Seems to like it and he gives solid power.

Pitching Smyly opt pulled.
Miley was a bit of a lost year. He might take the qualifying offer.
Both guys make good bait. Wicks should be ready by then

Then the annual investment to the pen.

At full the rotation was not bad. The issue was injury vs ineffective stuff.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

I'd like to see them refrain from signing any long term pitching deals. I agree they need IF, preferably corner infielders.....they got all these young arms they drafted, let's develop them.

If we want playoffs the next 2-3 years, we need an ACE. Right now none of our prospects project to that. We set up our team to be a great regular season team that loses in the playoffs if we don't get that ACE or two. And we have to spend this money on something, might as well just make our top 7-9 starting pitchers on the 40 man elite, compared to the rest of MLB.

 

[knoxville7]

If we want playoffs the next 2-3 years, we need an ACE. Right now none of our prospects project to that. We set up our team to be a great regular season team that loses in the playoffs if we don't get that ACE or two. And we have to spend this money on something, might as well just make our top 7-9 starting pitchers on the 40 man elite, compared to the rest of MLB.

Thing is, there isn’t any aces available this offseason sans DeGrom. And I’m not super into giving DeGrom and his injury history a long term massive $$ deal

Cubs will have to get creative to find their ace pitcher(assuming one doesn’t surprise from within the system). Probably would have to trade some prospects to acquire said Ace in a trade

 

[Chicagosports89]

I agree 100%

But I doubt that it will be what is expected


Drury for 3B
Happ moves to 1B and extends.
Contreras extends
Velequez takes over LF Hold down for Davis
Morel sits on CF holding it down for Armstrong.
Reyes sticks with Cubs. Seems to like it and he gives solid power.

Pitching Smyly opt pulled.
Miley was a bit of a lost year. He might take the qualifying offer.
Both guys make good bait. Wicks should be ready by then

Then the annual investment to the pen.

At full the rotation was not bad. The issue was injury vs ineffective stuff.

Happ is never going to 1b. Wouldn't the QO be a raise for Miley? I could see them giving him another year, but not at an increased price tag

 

[CSF77]

Happ is never going to 1b. Wouldn't the QO be a raise for Miley? I could see them giving him another year, but not at an increased price tag

He came up as a 2B and has played 3B. 1B is not a reach for him.

Velequez is another option. He has been at -1 DEF and is more of a bat vs a glove.

Drury is about as good as it gets for 3B f/a and is not going to cost 30-40M that the top SS demand. I take Tom's word with a grain of salt. His track record is 20-25M in signings. So to him spending is more tier 2 vs tier 1.

Miley I do agree but healthy he is a 2 fWAR guy. Will push 200 innings. Hold a 4 ERA. Basically a LH Stroman. Both guys want to keep a fast pace and that is what you want out of middle rotation guys. He is worth a Q offer if he is past his shoulder. If he is shelved for the year hard pass.

 

[knoxville7]

He came up as a 2B and has played 3B. 1B is not a reach for him.

Velequez is another option. He has been at -1 DEF and is more of a bat vs a glove.

Drury is about as good as it gets for 3B f/a and is not going to cost 30-40M that the top SS demand. I take Tom's word with a grain of salt. His track record is 20-25M in signings. So to him spending is more tier 2 vs tier 1.

Miley I do agree but healthy he is a 2 fWAR guy. Will push 200 innings. Hold a 4 ERA. Basically a LH Stroman. Both guys want to keep a fast pace and that is what you want out of middle rotation guys. He is worth a Q offer if he is past his shoulder. If he is shelved for the year hard pass.

The thing is, with there being 5 star SS/3B types available his winter, and not 5+ teams that have that need and the resources, means a guy or two is going to get “left out” and have to take less money than they want to. They will end up getting the 20-25 mil per that you’re saying is his track record. Those guys aren’t all getting 30+ mil annually, I guarantee that much

 

[Chicagosports89]

He came up as a 2B and has played 3B. 1B is not a reach for him.

Velequez is another option. He has been at -1 DEF and is more of a bat vs a glove.

Drury is about as good as it gets for 3B f/a and is not going to cost 30-40M that the top SS demand. I take Tom's word with a grain of salt. His track record is 20-25M in signings. So to him spending is more tier 2 vs tier 1.

Miley I do agree but healthy he is a 2 fWAR guy. Will push 200 innings. Hold a 4 ERA. Basically a LH Stroman. Both guys want to keep a fast pace and that is what you want out of middle rotation guys. He is worth a Q offer if he is past his shoulder. If he is shelved for the year hard pass.

Happ sucked at 2b and 3b more than he does in the outfield which is why he never played there everyday in the mlb.

I could be wrong but I don't think Ricketts ever worded offseason plans as aggressively as he just recently did. Usually it has been some vague comment about a plan, whereas recently he said they'd be major players in the FA market or some crap like that, right?

 

[Diehardfan]

If we want playoffs the next 2-3 years, we need an ACE. Right now none of our prospects project to that. We set up our team to be a great regular season team that loses in the playoffs if we don't get that ACE or two. And we have to spend this money on something, might as well just make our top 7-9 starting pitchers on the 40 man elite, compared to the rest of MLB.

You don't know that. Did anyone think Jake would be an Ace? If so, Baltimore gave up an Ace for fucking Scot Feldman. They didn't know and neither did the Cubs. That's exactly why Hoyer is stressing "smart" signings. You wait and see what you have first.

You might want to lighten up a bit, Cubs are not going to the WS next year who matter who they sign.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

You don't know that. Did anyone think Jake would be an Ace? If so, Baltimore gave up an Ace for fucking Scot Feldman. They didn't know and neither did the Cubs. That's exactly why Hoyer is stressing "smart" signings. You wait and see what you have first.

You might want to lighten up a bit, Cubs are not going to the WS next year who matter who they sign.

Arrieta was a one in a thousands chance. Generally speaking it is very rare for that to happen. The Cubs can be smart and also pay an ACE, which would be smart, lol.

 

[Diehardfan]

Arrieta was a one in a thousands chance. Generally speaking it is very rare for that to happen. The Cubs can be smart and also pay an ACE, which would be smart, lol.

I doubt Cubs fans have to worry about it. He won't go after anyone on the over priced list that's out there. The real rarity is finding a Jon Lester....for every guy like that you'll find 20 guys like Price, Grienke, Pavano, Ortiz, Zito, Davis, Jackson, Hampton or Neagle.....the list is endless.

Smart is the last thing I'd call it.

 

[CSF77]

The thing is, with there being 5 star SS/3B types available his winter, and not 5+ teams that have that need and the resources, means a guy or two is going to get “left out” and have to take less money than they want to. They will end up getting the 20-25 mil per that you’re saying is his track record. Those guys aren’t all getting 30+ mil annually, I guarantee that much

I can see that. But with Tom it is really hard to believe it. Heyward was a bust of an investment. Lester was worth it. Then he went into the 22 mil range with Darvish and Stroman. After he ran away from retaining his big 3.

So his track record is pretty crappy.

So the grain of salt is deserved.

 

[CSF77]

Especially right after ridding himself and eating a year of a deal. I would not hold my breath.

What makes the most sense is a 3B. System wise there is not a ranked 3B right now and the focus is in pitching. So it makes sense to trade or sign here.

Say LA decided that they want to go all in on Othani. There has to be a cash relief. Thus Rendon might be available. They could then target Dury for a discount and soak some Cubs pitchers and a OF (Maybe).

So I would not just look at the F)A market. Doing a deal like that gives the Cubs a guy on par with what they lost and some of the deal is gone.

I am a fan of Hoerner. I 100% ok with him there. System wise they have 2 SS that are solid quality. So over loading and dumping 300M really is not what Tom is known for. 165 is far more likely.

You don't know that. Did anyone think Jake would be an Ace? If so, Baltimore gave up an Ace for fucking Scot Feldman. They didn't know and neither did the Cubs. That's exactly why Hoyer is stressing "smart" signings. You wait and see what you have first.

You might want to lighten up a bit, Cubs are not going to the WS next year who matter who they sign.

Short term. Most guys like him have short peaks. His was just incredible. But after that peak he was crud.

It is rare for a late bloomer to amount to anything.

 

[Chicagosports89]

I can see that. But with Tom it is really hard to believe it. Heyward was a bust of an investment. Lester was worth it. Then he went into the 22 mil range with Darvish and Stroman. After he ran away from retaining his big 3.

So his track record is pretty crappy.

So the grain of salt is deserved.

He spent over the luxury tax or right up to it in like 5 or 6 straight years. He didn't retain his big 3 because they all suck and wanted monster contracts.

 

[Adipost]

He spent over the luxury tax or right up to it in like 5 or 6 straight years. He didn't retain his big 3 because they all suck and wanted monster contracts.

Cubs president of business operations Crane Kenney called the organization’s cost-cutting moves “a talking point” and “a false narrative,” defending the Ricketts family ownership group during Saturday’s appearance on 670 The Score, the team’s flagship radio station.

Kenney also referenced the concept of the savings account for baseball operations that Theo Epstein and Hoyer set up years ago. This is not standard operating procedure in the baseball industry, but the famous example became the Yankees outbidding the Cubs for Japanese pitcher Masahiro Tanaka after the 2013 season. Epstein and Hoyer reallocated that money and pursued big-game pitcher Jon Lester, who signed a six-year, $155 million contract with a last-place team after the 2014 season and helped end the 108-year World Series drought.

“If you look at between 2016 and 2021, we rank fourth in all of baseball, only behind the Yankees, Dodgers and just a smidge behind the Red Sox,” Kenney said. “When we were in that championship window, we were one of the top spenders in baseball. And during those six years, we tripped the CBT penalty three times, including as late as 2020, (which) was a shortened season, obviously, but we were over the limit in ’19 as well. I go back now through Sam Zell and all the way back through Tribune (Co.). We’re so lucky that we have an owner that lets us spend when the time is right.

“Clearly, this year, we’ve taken a step back. And as I said, all the resources that weren’t used that would have pushed us up the ladder on the payroll chart this year will go into next year’s budget. So I feel really lucky that Tom (Ricketts) has never said like, ‘No, I don’t want to spend.’

“Yes, in this one single year, we’re back into the middle of the table. But if you look at any sort of reasonable length of time, we’re always in the top four or five.”

 

[CSF77]

He spent over the luxury tax or right up to it in like 5 or 6 straight years. He didn't retain his big 3 because they all suck and wanted monster contracts.

Suck is a bit of a reach. Monster deals? The going rates for monster deals are in the 300M range. None were asking for that.

Monster deal is what Correa will command. He should be in line for 300M. Justice might even get more. Pretty much every SS will be asking for 30M per because that is what is being paid out to their peers.

Lets look for a second at what I suggested.

Rendon: 38.571M per year for 4 years. Otanhi is in his last year of control. That opened up pay roll gives LA the opportunity to retain a far more popular player.

So just tossing this out there for fun.

LAA sends over Rendon. Cubs send over Hendricks, Morel and Velaquez. Toss in Jenson.

Cubs start Davis at CF next year. Keep 2B in a platoon. 1B we know my want but if the Cubs add Rendon then it lessens the need for a impact 1B.

Kilian and Wesneski promoted. Hertz and Wicks at AAA.

So that would be a 24M increase. It gives flex to LA and a stable SP and some quality MLB ready players. Cubs really are just losing guys that were would get playing time cut in a year down the road. If not sooner.

That is just one scenario. But 24M next year is more reasonable for Tom to do. 2024-26 they will have more youth filtering up causing cost relief.

 

[CSF77]

Cubs president of business operations Crane Kenney called the organization’s cost-cutting moves “a talking point” and “a false narrative,” defending the Ricketts family ownership group during Saturday’s appearance on 670 The Score, the team’s flagship radio station.

Kenney also referenced the concept of the savings account for baseball operations that Theo Epstein and Hoyer set up years ago. This is not standard operating procedure in the baseball industry, but the famous example became the Yankees outbidding the Cubs for Japanese pitcher Masahiro Tanaka after the 2013 season. Epstein and Hoyer reallocated that money and pursued big-game pitcher Jon Lester, who signed a six-year, $155 million contract with a last-place team after the 2014 season and helped end the 108-year World Series drought.

“If you look at between 2016 and 2021, we rank fourth in all of baseball, only behind the Yankees, Dodgers and just a smidge behind the Red Sox,” Kenney said. “When we were in that championship window, we were one of the top spenders in baseball. And during those six years, we tripped the CBT penalty three times, including as late as 2020, (which) was a shortened season, obviously, but we were over the limit in ’19 as well. I go back now through Sam Zell and all the way back through Tribune (Co.). We’re so lucky that we have an owner that lets us spend when the time is right.

“Clearly, this year, we’ve taken a step back. And as I said, all the resources that weren’t used that would have pushed us up the ladder on the payroll chart this year will go into next year’s budget. So I feel really lucky that Tom (Ricketts) has never said like, ‘No, I don’t want to spend.’

“Yes, in this one single year, we’re back into the middle of the table. But if you look at any sort of reasonable length of time, we’re always in the top four or five.”

The fact that he is defending him says a lot. How about shut up and show us what you will do vs talk about what you did do. That payroll only netted 1 ring. It was not sustainable. They dumped the system which could have extended that winning way and had to firesale the trainwreck.

Crane sucks. He needs to keep out of the way of baseball operations and playing the we did this game. Who cares. Most of that cash was wasted on underperfoming players.

 

[Chicagosports89]

The fact that he is defending him says a lot. How about shut up and show us what you will do vs talk about what you did do. That payroll only netted 1 ring. It was not sustainable. They dumped the system which could have extended that winning way and had to firesale the trainwreck.

Crane sucks. He needs to keep out of the way of baseball operations and playing the we did this game. Who cares. Most of that cash was wasted on underperfoming players.

Maybe read the words and understand them. What you feel about their spending doesn't align with reality.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

The Ricketts, Theo and Hoyer have completely revamped this organization and spent a ton of money to get us to where we want to be as a franchise.

The fact that they spent money horribly and sucked at developing pitching, doesn't mean they didn't spend or are cheap. They just picked the wrong guys to spend on and develop pitching.

Look at us now, we have a top 5 farm system, pitching galore, and a team ready to spend when the time is right. We are on the verge of being the Dodgers, and not the Padres, Rangers or Angels. Where we can spend a ton of money and not have to trade our farm away to get a legit young roster.

 

[knoxville7]

Meh, why not kick the tires and see what happens. If nothing else, if he regains some of his previous form, he could be a nice trade piece. If he just keeps sucking, then oh well

He’s(Franmil) crushing the ball so far for the cubs