Did Pace pick the wrong QB again?

tardigrade

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dbldrew

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lets compare this with current stats and what Pace had on the board for QBs..


Rookie seasons..

Mitch
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2017Chicago Bears121219633021936.6773119677.54124862103

Watson
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2017Houston Texans7612620416998.319819116103362697.5231

VS

Fields
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2021Chicago Bears10811519813616.9483122069563115.6293

Jones
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2021New England Patriots131327038428697.5168242049732682.1052


So far it looks like Pace fucked up again.. He had Mitch and Watson on the board and picked the wrong one in 2017 (based on talent, obviously Watsons off field problems change things but on a player talent evaluation Watson was the one to pick over Mitch)

Again in 2021 he had Fields and Jones on the board and so far Fields compared to Jones is not even close.. I mean Fields to Mitch rookie years looks terrible for Fields as well! The faster Pace is gone the better!
 

playthrough2001

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lets compare this with current stats and what Pace had on the board for QBs..


Rookie seasons..

Mitch
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2017Chicago Bears121219633021936.6773119677.54124862103

Watson
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2017Houston Texans7612620416998.319819116103362697.5231

VS

Fields
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2021Chicago Bears10811519813616.9483122069563115.6293

Jones
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2021New England Patriots131327038428697.5168242049732682.1052


So far it looks like Pace fucked up again.. He had Mitch and Watson on the board and picked the wrong one in 2017 (based on talent, obviously Watsons off field problems change things but on a player talent evaluation Watson was the one to pick over Mitch)

Again in 2021 he had Fields and Jones on the board and so far Fields compared to Jones is not even close.. I mean Fields to Mitch rookie years looks terrible for Fields as well! The faster Pace is gone the better!
You actually bumped this because you believe this is a verifiable truth at this point?

Context is your friend. History is your friend.

I highly doubt any NFL GM would select Jones over Fields in a re-draft.

I guess that awesome defense, o-line, scheme, run game and coaching aren’t a factor for Mr. Jones.

He’s just better. Ok…

If Jones had been put under the same conditions Fields had to deal with in Cleveland, his chubby little ass would be out for the season.
 

dbldrew

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You actually bumped this because you believe this is a verifiable truth at this point?

Context is your friend. History is your friend.

I highly doubt any NFL GM would select Jones over Fields in a re-draft.

I guess that awesome defense, o-line, scheme, run game and coaching aren’t a factor for Mr. Jones.

He’s just better. Ok…

If Jones had been put under the same conditions Fields had to deal with in Cleveland, his chubby little ass would be out for the season.
It absolutely is a viable truth at this point. You want to talk about hypotheticals and what ifs with Jones being on the Bears.. I'm taking about reality. And the reality is so far just like Watson being the better QB vs Mitch, Jones is the better QB vs Fields.. thats reality

Forget comparing to Jones if you want.. Fields cant even out play Mitch.. Now what excuses are you going to use?

Mitch wasnt good enough so when his replacement cant even play up to his level then we have a problem.. and I'm comparing rookie to rookie here..

Can Fields get better? absolutely just like Mitch got better.. not better enough unfortunately.. so Fields is going to have to make a massive turn around.

What is it about Paces history of massive failures at evaluating QBs makes you think he got it right this time? Luck? I hope your right, but its not to much to ask that you play better then Mitch is it?
 

remydat

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No one evaluates QBs just based on hard stats. Fields makes plays that Trubiksy rarely did. That is why he projects to be better.

Trubisky had 13 big time throws in 326 attempts last year. Fields has 15 in 198 throws.

That is what separates them.
 

Gustavus Adolphus

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Again, the irony here is that only Justin Fields can save Nagy's, and should be the only one that can save Pace's job.
 

pdxbearsfan

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Is this just another Nail in the "fire Pace" coffin? The 2 Qbs that where on the Board when the Bears moved up was Fields and Mac Jones.

Justin Fields
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2021Chicago Bears75751318166.2262217961.8341404.1162

Mac Jones
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2021New England Patriots7717424717797.2961411192.813453.5031

At this point it seems like Jones was the better option, granted it could turn out that after a few years Fields is the better QB but if the Bears are evaluation both Pace and Nagy this year then all they have to go off is this years QB numbers. And so far it looks like Pace picked the wrong QB again
Crap early comparison, Fields is absolutely the right pick and one the Bears will enjoy for years to come when he becomes a top 5 QB. Stop with this crap!
 

playthrough2001

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It absolutely is a viable truth at this point. You want to talk about hypotheticals and what ifs with Jones being on the Bears.. I'm taking about reality. And the reality is so far just like Watson being the better QB vs Mitch, Jones is the better QB vs Fields.. thats reality

Forget comparing to Jones if you want.. Fields cant even out play Mitch.. Now what excuses are you going to use?

Mitch wasnt good enough so when his replacement cant even play up to his level then we have a problem.. and I'm comparing rookie to rookie here..

Can Fields get better? absolutely just like Mitch got better.. not better enough unfortunately.. so Fields is going to have to make a massive turn around.

What is it about Paces history of massive failures at evaluating QBs makes you think he got it right this time? Luck? I hope your right, but its not to much to ask that you play better then Mitch is it?
This is so dumb it makes my head hurt.
 

Anytime23

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No one wants to bash Pace more than me but he absolutely made the correct pick, even if it was a lucky one.

Jones is a product of an entire organization being good at what they do from top to bottom. There isn’t another team in the NfL where he would play as well as he has. I was very lucky to see his incredible performance live in Buffalo. Never seen such brilliant handing off in my life.
 

Briggs is GOAT

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No one evaluates QBs just based on hard stats. Fields makes plays that Trubiksy rarely did. That is why he projects to be better.

Trubisky had 13 big time throws in 326 attempts last year. Fields has 15 in 198 throws.

That is what separates them.
If people can't see that Fields is easily the more accurate thrower (except on maybe 3 yard out routes) than Mitch on every type of throw, then idk what to tell them.

He's also a more athletic QB, more dynamic runner (so Mitch doesn't even have his one true strength over him), and Mitch was/is a mental midget, which Fields is the opposite of.
 

dbldrew

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No one evaluates QBs just based on hard stats. Fields makes plays that Trubiksy rarely did. That is why he projects to be better.

Trubisky had 13 big time throws in 326 attempts last year. Fields has 15 in 198 throws.

That is what separates them.
never said thats the only way to evaluate QB. But its an important tool in the evaluation process.. name me a great QB that has terrible stats in the modern era.. every single great QB is always backed up with the stats..

And what is "big time throw" even mean? are you talking about a deep ball like Grossman?

And does that "big time throw" make up for the fact that every 24 pass attempts ends in an INT? well not according to his stats, eye test or his win %..

Its real simple, I expect that the next "franchise" QB should be able to play better then Mitch.. and all im doing is comparing that to Mitch's terrible rookie year.. I set the bar VERY low here with being better then a rookie Mitch.. Something that he has failed to do.. he cant even outplay rookie Mitch!? my god this is depressing..

Listen I get it.. he can improve, and next year I will set the bar as Mitch in year 2.. will he be able to out play Mitch then?

Do I have any faith that Fields will improve? Sure.. some.. But I have more faith that Pace once again failed in the QB evaluation like he has done with every QB he has brought here VS faith in a huge turn around.

There are a few more games this year, if he can play well It sure will ease my mind for the future..
 

remydat

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never said thats the only way to evaluate QB. But its an important tool in the evaluation process.. name me a great QB that has terrible stats in the modern era.. every single great QB is always backed up with the stats..

And what is "big time throw" even mean? are you talking about a deep ball like Grossman?

And does that "big time throw" make up for the fact that every 24 pass attempts ends in an INT? well not according to his stats, eye test or his win %..

Its real simple, I expect that the next "franchise" QB should be able to play better then Mitch.. and all im doing is comparing that to Mitch's terrible rookie year.. I set the bar VERY low here with being better then a rookie Mitch.. Something that he has failed to do.. he cant even outplay rookie Mitch!? my god this is depressing..

Listen I get it.. he can improve, and next year I will set the bar as Mitch in year 2.. will he be able to out play Mitch then?

Do I have any faith that Fields will improve? Sure.. some.. But I have more faith that Pace once again failed in the QB evaluation like he has done with every QB he has brought here VS faith in a huge turn around.

There are a few more games this year, if he can play well It sure will ease my mind for the future..

Manning threw 28 Ints. Alllen was not that great as a rookie. Brees was so bad the Chargers drafted Rivers. Plenty of QBs have uneven rookie years.

I wasnt comparing to Trubs rookie year. I was comparing to last year. Last year Trubs had 3.9% BTTs and 5.9% Turnover Worthy Plays. So a net negative of 2%

Fields has 6.9% BTT and 3.9% TWPs for a next positive of 3%. So relative to Trubisky he throws 77% more BTTs while committing 66% less TWPs.

Fields is 4th in the NFL in BTT% 7th in TWP and 1st in air yards per pass. So the point is it is a mixed bag but the BTT% and air yards are indicative of special traits. The issue is whether he can harness them. Trubisky never showed those traits as a passer. Definitions from PFF below.

BTT: Big Time Throws - a pass with excellent ball location and timing, generally thrown further down the field and/or into a tighter window

TWP: Turnover Worthy Plays - a pass that has a high percentage chance to be intercepted or a poor job of taking care of the ball and fumbling
 
Last edited:

dbldrew

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If people can't see that Fields is easily the more accurate thrower (except on maybe 3 yard out routes) than Mitch on every type of throw, then idk what to tell them.

He's also a more athletic QB, more dynamic runner (so Mitch doesn't even have his one true strength over him), and Mitch was/is a mental midget, which Fields is the opposite of.
Then why doesn't that show up in his stats compared to Mitch's rookie year? Mitch was not good in his rookie year, but still has a better comp%, better TD%, MUCH better INT% better running yards average, better fumble %. The only thing that fields was better was a slight ypa..

Listen Fields might turn into something.. but right now with his rookie year vs Mitch's.. he has played terrible..

I would LOVE to eat crow here.. but that's up to Fields play..
 

Spitta Andretti

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lets compare this with current stats and what Pace had on the board for QBs..


Rookie seasons..

Mitch
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2017Chicago Bears121219633021936.6773119677.54124862103

Watson
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2017Houston Texans7612620416998.319819116103362697.5231

VS

Fields
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2021Chicago Bears10811519813616.9483122069563115.6293

Jones
SEASONTEAMGGSCOMPATTYDSAVGTDINTSCKSCKYRATEATTYDSAVGTDFUMLOST
2021New England Patriots131327038428697.5168242049732682.1052


So far it looks like Pace fucked up again.. He had Mitch and Watson on the board and picked the wrong one in 2017 (based on talent, obviously Watsons off field problems change things but on a player talent evaluation Watson was the one to pick over Mitch)

Again in 2021 he had Fields and Jones on the board and so far Fields compared to Jones is not even close.. I mean Fields to Mitch rookie years looks terrible for Fields as well! The faster Pace is gone the better!


jones wins while throwing 3 passes

please stfu
 

dbldrew

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Manning threw 28 Ints. Alllen was not that great as a rookie. Brees was so bad the Chargers drafted Rivers. Plenty of QBs have uneven rookie years.

I wasnt comparing to Trubs rookie year. I was comparing to last year. Last year Trubs had 3.9% BTTs and 5.9% Turnover Worthy Plays. So a net negative of 2%

Fields has 6.9% BTT and 3.9% TWPs for a next positive of 3%. So relative to Trubisky he throws 77% more BTTs while committing 66% less TWPs.

Fields is 4th in the NFL in BTT% 7th in TWP and 1st in air yards per pass. So the point is it is a mixed bag but the BTT% and air yards are indicative of special traits. The issue is whether he can harness them. Trubisky never showed those traits as a passer. Definitions from PFF below.

BTT: Big Time Throws - a pass with excellent ball location and timing, generally thrown further down the field and/or into a tighter window

TWP: Turnover Worthy Plays - a pass that has a high percentage chance to be intercepted or a poor job of taking care of the ball and fumbling


Manning lol your brining up Manning who threw for 26 TD as well? Back in 98! seriously? lol

Ok if Fields can throw another 22TD this year I will eat crow and love every bite.. lol

BTT and TWP are all hypothetical stats not reality stats.. BTT and TWP do not win games.. TD and INT do and fields has been terrible in the "real" TD and INT stats
 

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