Did Pace pick the wrong QB again?

remydat

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I think the viewpoint is still valid.

Garrappolo, Brissett, Cassel, Hoyer....what do they all have in common. All of them looked much better when playing on the Pats. What everyone is saying is that Mac Jones is never going to look better than he does playing with the Pats.

Kyle Orton went from the Bears to the Pats system (Broncos/Josh McDaniel) and had a career year. That didn't happen by chance.

Think you are missing the fact all of those guys looked better because they are not aggressive QBs and take what the D gives them. Mac Jones will always look better than Fields in the Pats system because the Pats system is largely a dink and dunk system that prioritizes getting the ball out quickly and horizontally which plays to Jones strength.

Keep in mind that when he went to Denver McDaniels had a Justin Fields type QB ie a guy that liked to attack downfield in Jay Cutler and his first order of business was to get rid of him for a dink and dunker Orton. Justin Fields is a Jay Cutler type QB. He doesn't really fit the Pats system because he takes too long to get rid of the ball.
 

DaaBears

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I am not sure Fields issue is inability to read defenses. I think his issue is he wants to attack downfield and will pass up easy passes waiting for something better to come along. Jones by contrast will take what the D gives him.

You see too many instances on film where Fields is staring at an open guy shot and you can see he is thinking about throwing to them but then he hesitates or pulls back.

He is like a dude that has a perfectly nice girl at home but will be out on the town looking around to see if someone better is available. In the end, he wakes up the next day missing $500 from his wallet and a burning sensation in his groin that he later finds out is gonorrhea.

I am not seeing it that way. To counter that I have seen times when he had a lot of time and nobody was coming at him and he threw real short. Maybe he is deciding ahead of time where he is going no matter what. Maybe he is just not good at this, at least not yet.
 

remydat

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Do you think Jones would be doing better than Fields if he was a Bear in the same circumstances?
Yes because he is more Andy Dalton than Fields namely he would dink and dunk like Dalton did against the Rams and Bengals which is simply a better fit for this team given our shit OL that struggles holding blocks.

This team is not built for a Justin Fields type QB. This team is built for an Andy Dalton or Mac Jones type of QB. Yall were upset when Dalton was dinking and dunking but he had the Bears in Rams territory on pretty much every drive because he sustained drives. Fields can't do that. He can't do that because he can dink and dunk for a while but then inevitably he will start looking downfield and passing up underneath routes because he is hardwired to attack downfield. That is just who he is. That isn't going to work here until we have an OL like Tom Brady does.
 

remydat

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I am not seeing it that way. To counter that I have seen times when he had a lot of time and nobody was coming at him and he threw real short. Maybe he is deciding ahead of time where he is going no matter what. Maybe he is just not good at this, at least not yet.

Sure but that was likely because having looked and looked downfield, there was nothing there so he had to come back to the short stuff. This is Fields in a nutshell IMO. He is staring at the guy circled, he can pull the trigger, he is actually winding up to pull the trigger but in the back of his mind he is imagining there is something better somewhere else on the field. So he doesn't pull the trigger and take the 5 yard gain. Instead Clark gets him for a 12 yard sack. This is probably a TD drive or at worst a FG in a 10 point game in the 4th quarter that he turns into 0 points.

Why? Because in his heart of hearts he can't just stay the course. He wants to make the big play and so he will routinely pass up the easy yards. I have seen this too much on the All 22.

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remydat

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Let me preface what I am saying by noting Nagy should have been fired 2 years ago. Having said that, he was right. This team cannot consistently challenge downfield and he was right to start Dalton and he was right to dink and dunk against the Rams and Bengals with Dalton. That is the only chance for this O to move the ball given the OL ie taking the first open route you see even if it is for 5 yards. Fields does this on occasion but then he will get bored/frustrated and start passing up easy completions looking for something better.

It is those momentary slips that end up killing drives because inevitably the shit OL means he often times gets pressured as a result. There are obviously times he has no chance because the pressure comes right away but a lot of the scrambling sacks are the result of this tendency to pass up easy routes looking for the big play. Cutler had the same problem.
 

Britbuffguy

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Yes because he is more Andy Dalton than Fields namely he would dink and dunk like Dalton did against the Rams and Bengals which is simply a better fit for this team given our shit OL that struggles holding blocks.

This team is not built for a Justin Fields type QB. This team is built for an Andy Dalton or Mac Jones type of QB. Yall were upset when Dalton was dinking and dunking but he had the Bears in Rams territory on pretty much every drive because he sustained drives. Fields can't do that. He can't do that because he can dink and dunk for a while but then inevitably he will start looking downfield and passing up underneath routes because he is hardwired to attack downfield. That is just who he is. That isn't going to work here until we have an OL like Tom Brady does.
WTF are you talking. he scored 14 fucking points in that game. I don't recall Santos missing 6-8 Field Goals that game.

EDIT: Wait, didn't Field score one of those TDs as well??? So you claims he got the Bears offense in Rams territory all night and came up with 7 points?

Seriously, I said you were a troll and I stick with it.
 

remydat

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WTF are you talking. he scored 14 fucking points in that game. I don't recall Santos missing 6-8 Field Goals that game.

EDIT: Wait, didn't Field score one of those TDs as well??? So you claims he got the Bears offense in Rams territory all night and came up with 7 points?

Seriously, I said you were a troll and I stick with it.
SMH.

1st Drive - We have goal to go but Dalton threw a pick.
2nd Drive - Failed a 4th and 1 at Rams 41.
3rd Drive - Failed a 4th and 4 at Rams 38.
4th Drive - Punted on 4th and 2 at Rams 47
5th Drive - Touchdown
6th Drive - Touchdown - This is the drive where Fields ran it in from the 4 but Dalton played majority of drive.
7th Drive - Failed a 4th and 15 at Rams 30.

That is 7 of 8 drives that ended in Rams territory. We moved the ball. We just fucked it up when it mattered but the point is with this shitty OL you have to dink and dunk. We Dalton didn't throw the dumb pick and if we could have converted very makeable 4th downs, we are in that game.

Currently, Fields makes a splash play here and there but he takes too many sacks because he is waiting for something better to open up instead of taking the dink and dunk. That is the reality. I am not proposing we go back to Dalton as he has no future with us but Dalton is a better fit for the team given the limitations. Fields is not going to have enough time to go down the field which is what he is built to do.

Also let's be honest here. If Fields had us in opponent territory 7 out of 8 times, yall would be having an orgasm now.
 

PrideisBears

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SMH.

1st Drive - We have goal to go but Dalton threw a pick.
2nd Drive - Failed a 4th and 1 at Rams 41.
3rd Drive - Failed a 4th and 4 at Rams 38.
4th Drive - Punted on 4th and 2 at Rams 47
5th Drive - Touchdown
6th Drive - Touchdown - This is the drive where Fields ran it in from the 4 but Dalton played majority of drive.
7th Drive - Failed a 4th and 15 at Rams 30.

That is 7 of 8 drives that ended in Rams territory. We moved the ball. We just fucked it up when it mattered but the point is with this shitty OL you have to dink and dunk. We Dalton didn't throw the dumb pick and if we could have converted very makeable 4th downs, we are in that game.

Currently, Fields makes a splash play here and there but he takes too many sacks because he is waiting for something better to open up instead of taking the dink and dunk. That is the reality. I am not proposing we go back to Dalton as he has no future with us but Dalton is a better fit for the team given the limitations. Fields is not going to have enough time to go down the field which is what he is built to do.

Also let's be honest here. If Fields had us in opponent territory 7 out of 8 times, yall would be having an orgasm now.
Negative, I want to score. Dalton wasn’t doing that either
 

remydat

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Negative, I want to score. Dalton wasn’t doing that either

Yes because he fucked it up in the end when it mattered. The point was the dink and dunk was working. That is pretty much what Jones does. He just avoids fucking it up in the end.
 

Raskolnikov

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It was odd what SF did anyway. Move up to #3 without a real plan just because they thought it was a strong QB class. Yeah, it was rumored they wanted Mac Jones but a couple things wrong with that. For one, nobody knows how committed they ever were to Jones, if at all. Two, You didn't have to move up that far to get him cause he was never projected to go that high. It was the rumor, itself, the boosted Mac Jones' draft stock.

Believe the Niners had the #12 pick before they traded that and 2 other first rounders and a third. If they really wanted Jones, that #12 pick was always good enough to get him. They didn't have to do shit. You move up to #3 for what?
In a weird way maybe fleecing pace on Trubisky cost them some peace of mind this time and they did something stupid with know trade up clown Pace targeting a QB behind them.

If so, they guessed that part right and moved off 12.

It would take Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson to save that team from a total rebuild now.
 

BaBaBlacksheep

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“I think Mac Jones is the best rookie quarterback I have ever seen when it comes to knowing who to throw to, when to throw it and then how to throw it," - Dan Orlovsky (this week)
 

Bort

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Idt he picked the wrong qb. I think sticking with naggy plus roster issues it was just the wrong year to trade more picks to move up. We have low cap space, bad roster and supporting cast especially on offense, and a shit hc that has more lives than any feline I’ve seen. Cap space will keep getting worse cause the dumb ass gm keeps pushing the pain down the road so can’t even expect to be bailed out in free agency. And draft picks have been squandered in trades
The correct time to draft a potential generational QB talent is any time you don’t already have one on the roster, especially when that prospect inexplicably falls out of the top 10.
 

Anytime45

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“I think Mac Jones is the best rookie quarterback I have ever seen when it comes to knowing who to throw to, when to throw it and then how to throw it," - Dan Orlovsky (this week)
top notch coaching by Josh McScamiels
 

The BrotherHood

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Yes because he fucked it up in the end when it mattered. The point was the dink and dunk was working. That is pretty much what Jones does. He just avoids fucking it up in the end.
Funny how the people that crap on Dalton don't mention the playcalling and o line. Weird isn't it?
 

EDPeezy

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I don’t want Dalton to play, but he actually looked decent when he was out there. I was pissed he was playing ahead of Fields because I wanted to just get Fields out there and see what we have. There is no future with Dalton. He played better than I thought he would though. People are being disingenuous about that Rams game. And really just further proving that a ton of people here are full of shit and will just say nonsense. Dalton and the Bears as a whole were thrown in the lions den for that Rams game. Season opener on Sunday night where the Rams are opening their new stadium. Everybody knew going into that game the Bears were toast. So to now pretend like it was just another game and Dalton sucked is really disingenuous. He was decent. It’s just that they kept stalling on drives and late they couldnt kick field goals and put points on the board because they were down too big. So they just kept going for it and not converting 4th downs. Plus the Rams have a really good defense. It wasn’t like they were playing the Lions. Then he only played a half against the Bengals after that. He looked decent that game too. But people think they can just make shit up and will it into reality. “dalton sucked, 14 points, blah blah blah.” And they dont even attempt to put any of it into proper context. It’s all about pushing a predetermined narrative.

This team today is definitely better with Dalton. But I’m not worried about that. I’d still rather Fields be out there. its vital the bears know what they have with him and anything that doesn’t further us coming to a decision on him is a waste of time. Playing Dalton would be a waste of time. I’ll give him credit though and admit he was better than I thought he would be.
 
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Black Rainbow

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I don’t want Dalton to play, but he actually played pretty well when he was out there. I was pissed he was playing ahead of Fields because I wanted to just get Fields out there and see what we have. There is no future with Dalton. He played better than I thought he would though. People are being disingenuous about that Rams game. And really just further proving that a ton of people here are full of shit and will just say nonsense. Dalton and the Bears as a whole were thrown in the lions den for that Rams game. Season opener on Sunday night where the Rams are opening their new stadium. Everybody knew going into that game the Bears were toast. So to now pretend like it was just another game and Dalton sucked is really disingenuous. He was decent. It’s just that they kept stalling on drives and late they couldnt kick field goals and put points on the board because they were down too big. So they just kept going for it and not converting 4th downs. Plus the Rams have a really good defense. It wasn’t like they were playing the Lions. Then he only played a half against the Bengals after that. He looked decent that game too. But people think they can just make shit up and will it into reality. “dalton sucked, 14 points, blah blah blah.” And they dont even attempt to put any of it into proper context. It’s all about pushing a predetermined narrative.

This team today is definitely better with Dalton. But I’m not worried about that. I’d still rather Fields be out there. its vital the bears know what they have with him and anything that doesn’t further us coming to a decision on him is a waste of time. Playing Dalton would be a waste of time. I’ll give him credit though and admit he was better than I thought he would be.

Yeah. You can't talk to nutthuggers. Fields gets 0% of the blame for this season.

Next season - if he hasn't turned it around - the excuse will be, "He's learning a new system; it's his 2nd rookie year; it's going to take awhile for the new coach to un-ruin him because of Nagy...etc.

I pray to God, Fields doesn't get hurt because that'd be another excuse. "We won't know what we got until 2023." "It's his 3rd rookie year."
 

run and shoot

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I think the blitzing problem is feeding on itself. Generally the offensive line is playing okay, like a C-, and Fields is holding the ball too long and has bad pocket awareness. This is the starting point.

Things get worse when the defense blitzes. Blitzing is obviously a risk/reward thing otherwise defenses would blitz every down. Well when the Bears can't read a blitz coming and/or don't have a counter to the blitz, then there is no risk to the defense to blitz more often.

So until the Bears learn to read and counter the blitz this situation will continue and possibly worsen.


Fields is holding the ball too long and has bad pocket awareness. This is the starting point.

When is there a "pocket"?
 

run and shoot

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Yeah. You can't talk to nutthuggers. Fields gets 0% of the blame for this season.

Next season - if he hasn't turned it around - the excuse will be, "He's learning a new system; it's his 2nd rookie year; it's going to take awhile for the new coach to un-ruin him because of Nagy...etc.

I pray to God, Fields doesn't get hurt because that'd be another excuse. "We won't know what we got until 2023." "It's his 3rd rookie year."

Well with other young Qb's, I always hear, 'give them time to develop'....right?
 

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