Does Anyone Know If We Could Use The Franchise Tag on Hester?

[xer0h0ur]

WTF? Hold on, wait a second. So you're telling me that Deion Sanders gets INT returns for TDs counted for him but an ACTUAL special teams TD in the fucking SB doesn't count towards Hester's total? Something is dead wrong with this picture.

 

[Slacker]

Playoff stats typically don't count.

 

[xer0h0ur]

Well son of a bitch. I wasn't aware his SB kickoff TD was not being counted in his TD totals. That is a complete load of shit. Then again I am merely one man and one opinion.

 

[Tjodalv]

Well son of a bitch. I wasn't aware his SB kickoff TD was not being counted in his TD totals. That is a complete load of shit. Then again I am merely one man and one opinion.

It's always just regular season stats when talking about records. Playoff records are a separate entity.

 

[fenderpfunk]

Lol what if they had to use his previous salary for the franchise amount since he's like the only guy who is strictly a returner.

 

[Bearin' Down]

I think the OP is assuming he'll want another similar contract, i.e. too much money or he'll leave CHI.

Right, I was thinking his cost would be too much for us. I was also hoping to see him break the record in a Bears uniform.

 

[Bearin' Down]

He housed two punts and had a bunch of long KR returns. I watched a lot of his returns on all 22 and the blocking was generally poor. If you think he is done I'd say go to the tape and see without the emotion of gametime viewing.

As to the decision making, I don't know why they don't just make the rules super simple for him or better yet put a personal protector/decider next to him to tell him what to do.

He didn't attempt enough punt returns this year, I blame some of that on coaching.

LOL, and maybe that guys only position can be called "Devin Hester's KR/PR Advisor." So, eventually, we can average his salary out five times to get his next contract.

 

[malcore]

The Bears kept Hester for the remainder of his contract and basically reduced his responsibilities to being solely a KR/PR. I can't see the Bears signing him to a new contract for that purpose only, regardless of cost. The writing was on the wall for Hester as soon as he was relegated to KR/PR only, imo.

 

[iueyedoc]

Got any more reaches? Was Hester supposed to be like sorry NFL, MikeDitkaPolishSausage said I have received too many opportunities to return kickoffs so I gotta sit this one out...

But to assert that him leading the league in return yards without also mentioning he had the most return opportunities is misleading. Here is the top 10 in return yards which also matches top 10 in # of returns:

1 Devin Hester CHI WR 52 1,436 27.6 80 0
2 Cordarrelle Patterson MIN WR 43 1,393 32.4 109T
3 Quintin Demps KC FS 33 992 30.1 95T 1
4 Keshawn Martin HOU WR 36 947 26.3 50 0
5 Brandon Tate CIN WR 35 914 26.1 71 0
6 Jacoby Jones BAL WR 31 892 28.8 77T 1
7 Marcus Thigpen MIA RB 39 878 22.5 50 0
8 Dwayne Harris DAL WR 28 857 30.6 90 0
9 Trindon Holliday DEN WR 28 775 27.7 105T
10 Jordan Todman JAC RB 26 712 27.4 59 0

Hester is 6th in average of the top 10 players in number of returns. That isn't game changer, worth a roster spot production. As a side note, he also had 4 fumbles and while that may be partially because of his increased return chances(53 returns), the other 9 in the top ten had 4 combined fumbles.(299).

 

[xer0h0ur]

Point taken.

 

[Bearin' Down]

But to assert that him leading the league in return yards without also mentioning he had the most return opportunities is misleading. Here is the top 10 in return yards which also matches top 10 in # of returns:

1 Devin Hester CHI WR 52 1,436 27.6 80 0
2 Cordarrelle Patterson MIN WR 43 1,393 32.4 109T
3 Quintin Demps KC FS 33 992 30.1 95T 1
4 Keshawn Martin HOU WR 36 947 26.3 50 0
5 Brandon Tate CIN WR 35 914 26.1 71 0
6 Jacoby Jones BAL WR 31 892 28.8 77T 1
7 Marcus Thigpen MIA RB 39 878 22.5 50 0
8 Dwayne Harris DAL WR 28 857 30.6 90 0
9 Trindon Holliday DEN WR 28 775 27.7 105T
10 Jordan Todman JAC RB 26 712 27.4 59 0

Hester is 6th in average of the top 10 players in number of returns. That isn't game changer, worth a roster spot production. As a side note, he also had 4 fumbles and while that may be partially because of his increased return chances(53 returns), the other 9 in the top ten had 4 combined fumbles.(299).

I disagree with your assessment here. You point out that his number of opportunities is what lead to his total yards, but ignore that the significantly decreased number of opportunities by other players (3 of which rank above him) could have increased their overall production. Trindon Holiday's longest return was 105 yards. He only returned 27 other kicks after that, and you are crediting him for his average which is only 0.1 above Hester's. It's just as likely that their numbers are skewed bc of the lack of a true sample size.

 

[JDB_219]

A lot of teams have put two returners back at times. If his decision making is unfixable, put a center fielder back to call him off or block as needed.

Earl would probably be great with the hands.


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[iueyedoc]

Bears special teams excelled in core areas - chicagotribune.com http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-special-teams-20140119,0,5793726.story

Bears 4th in starting field position according to this article. I'm not going to fact check but it sure reads like he does more harm than good.

I think some people don't watch enough football to appreciate what 23 does for Bears.

Yeah great stat. The Bears were 4th at 24.2 while the league worst was Ariz. at 20.3. So there were 28 teams behind the Bears but all within less than 4 yards of the Bears. Real game changing stat. And notice how the best and worst are influenced by the weather and the inability to kick deep in poor cold weather influenced rankings of the best and worst in all categories.

KICKOFF STARTING POINT

Best: Minnesota, 27.2-yard line

Worst: Arizona, 20.3-yard line

Cowboys: 6th, 23.1-yard line

OPPONENT STARTING POINT

Best: Tampa Bay, 19.4-yard line

Worst: Green Bay, 25.6-yard line

Cowboys: 11th, 21.4-yard line

I think some people watch too many dvds of the 2006 and 2007 seasons to understand Hester's value today.

 

[iueyedoc]

I disagree with your assessment here. You point out that his number of opportunities is what lead to his total yards, but ignore that the significantly decreased number of opportunities by other players (3 of which rank above him) could have increased their overall production. Trindon Holiday's longest return was 105 yards. He only returned 27 other kicks after that, and you are crediting him for his average which is only 0.1 above Hester's. It's just as likely that their numbers are skewed bc of the lack of a true sample size.

Hester is ranked 19th overall counting infrequent returners. But you can take all the top ten and add their stats and the return average is 27.96. That's a sample size of 299 returns with Hester just below that average, so 6th out of 10 seems fair. He is just average or maybe a little above for a primary return guy. I don't know how that is debatable. Factor in his much higher fumble rate and that he has no other position of value, I just don't see why he should be retained.

 

[Bearin' Down]

Hester is ranked 19th overall counting infrequent returners. But you can take all the top ten and add their stats and the return average is 27.96. That's a sample size of 299 returns with Hester just below that average, so 6th out of 10 seems fair. He is just average or maybe a little above for a primary return guy. I don't know how that is debatable. Factor in his much higher fumble rate and that he has no other position of value, I just don't see why he should be retained.

Not quite. Adding together returners of varying ability, all of which are right around each other, is, again, incredibly misleading. The best way to understand it, and understandably would be skewed based on injuries, age, etc., would be to view each individual players average for their career, where applicable. I'm not sure there is a good way to measure this, other than to say Hester most certainly is still around the top in return ability. Depending on the price, why would you create a hole where you have none?

 

[iueyedoc]

A lot of teams have put two returners back at times. If his decision making is unfixable, put a center fielder back to call him off or block as needed.

Earl would probably be great with the hands.


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Your saying a lot of teams have put two guys back on punt returns? When and Who?

 

[xer0h0ur]

I have seen it repeatedly where teams have two guys at different depths to return the kick should the kicking team decide to kick it away from the primary returner.

 

[iueyedoc]

Not quite. Adding together returners of varying ability, all of which are right around each other, is, again, incredibly misleading. The best way to understand it, and understandably would be skewed based on injuries, age, etc., would be to view each individual players average for their career, where applicable. I'm not sure there is a good way to measure this, other than to say Hester most certainly is still around the top in return ability. Depending on the price, why would you create a hole where you have none?

So you are saying he can't be judged individually against the other most frequent returners and he can't be judged against them as a whole? And suggesting the use of career stats is crazy. Are you suggesting keeping Hester at age 31/32 next year based on his stats from age 23-30?

 

[xer0h0ur]

Your face can't be judged individually. Wait. What?

 

[iueyedoc]

I have seen it repeatedly where teams have two guys at different depths to return the kick should the kicking team decide to kick it away from the primary returner.

On kick offs, not punts. The fair catch, return it, let it bounce decision or lack there of by Hester is primarily a punt issue. I don't think anyone has said he makes bad decisions on kickoffs, not at least wtf types he makes on punts..