Does anyone know why Fields fell?

Toast88

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The italicized quoted below is something I put into another thread, but I’m going to add a little to it now.

“Why did he slide you ask?

•Lawrence and Fields have been neck and neck since H.S. and Fields’ success threatens the anointed golden god that is T. Lawrence.

•Fields’ talents, even his mechanics, challenge preconceptions of what a QB, especially a “black QB”, can/should be. Fields is often euphemistically referred to as a running QB though he has always been more of a pocket passer.

•Orlovsky’s report of work ethic concerns, the epilepsy leak, the characterization as a “one-read and run” guy, and so on were all put out there to explain what was really a fall based on Fields’ threat to QB norms in general and Lawrence’s throne in particular.

•Chris Simms’ Low Ranking of Fields: In ‘18 Simms had Lamar Jackson as his top QB, a call which Simms has used to defend his position on Fields. However, as truly generational athlete at the position Jackson fits the traditional QB stereotypes more comfortably than Fields who prefers to win from the pocket. There is a secondary wrinkle here in that Jackson was clearly being underrated by both the media and the league so Simms was able to play the “white knight” role in this instance.”


Additional thought:

•Trey Lance was taken at #3 despite a body of work that clearly shows a player with a less developed skill set than Fields. I think you can attribute this to two things—Lance’s mechanics lack the idiosyncrasies of Fields’ and the way Lance presents himself to the media is more in line with NFL expectations.

Trey Lance:


Justin Fields:


And here’s Zach Wilson:


•Perhaps you think these points are all a stretch, and you may be correct—I really don’t know—but it’s important to keep in mind that Fields’ college career was marked by racism from the outset by what went down at Georgia. To his credit Fields has continually downplayed the events that lead to his transfer. Still, after all the B.S. storylines and scouting reports of the last few months why should we assume that Fields’ NFL career has begun any differently?
Mannn, all of this. I wish I could like this more than once.

In particular, it drives me crazy how people are describing Fields as a running QB who needs an offense to move him outside of the pocket. That's literally the opposite of his strength. But he's an athletic, black QB. It's what people are used to saying about such players.

I too figured his soft-spokenness and low-key demeanor might hurt him in the draft. Simultaneously sad to see that happen, but also ecstatic that the Bears reaped the rewards of that bullshit mindset. Ask his coaches and teammates what he was like in the huddle. He knows how to lead.

I'm not necessarily saying it's all racial, but Fields has been a victim to some particularly egregious examples of bullshit that appear to have pulled his stock down and/or made people think things about him that simply aren't true.
 

Anytime23

Boding Well
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Ryan Day also went through some examples where Fields went through 3,4,5 reads. I realize he's his college coach and will probably be his biggest advocate, but after watching more tape on Fields, I'm not concerned about this idea that he can't process his reads.

It's true that he holds the ball for a while and that his thought process will need to speed up to NFL levels, but that's true of any college QBs going to the pros. I'm not any more concerned than I would be for any other good college quarterback going to the NFL.
Deshaun Watson anyone?
 

Visionman

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Mannn, all of this. I wish I could like this more than once.

In particular, it drives me crazy how people are describing Fields as a running QB who needs an offense to move him outside of the pocket. That's literally the opposite of his strength. But he's an athletic, black QB. It's what people are used to saying about such players.

I too figured his soft-spokenness and low-key demeanor would hurt him in the draft. Simultaneously sad to see that happen, but also ecstatic that the Bears reaped the rewards of that bullshit mindset. Ask his coaches and teammates what he was like in the huddle. He knows how to lead.

I'm not necessarily saying it's all racial, but Fields has been a victim to some particularly egregious examples of bullshit that appear to have pulled his stock down and/or made people think things about him that simply aren't true.
Remember, this was all put out by the media and pundits, not necessarily actual NFL teams...
 

ursamajor

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Against Clemson Fields was phenomenal. In the NCAA championship he wasn't. 17 for 33, 190 yards, 1 TD. In same game Mac Jones was 36-45, 450 yards, 5 TDs. Of course different situations.

Against Northwestern and Indiana he was bad. He left Georgia for Ohio State because he couldn't beat out Jake Fromm for starting job. Fromm went I think in 5th round and is 3rd string for Buffalo.

He might end up a star in the NFL, or maybe not. Lamar Jackson went 32nd, 5th QB picked and got MVP in second year.

I don't think anybody really knows.
Lawrence looked like hot ass against LSU in his last Championship game. Didn’t he complete like less than half his passes and throw for 0 TDS? Some of his throws that game, got me to pump the brakes on Lawrence. There was a lot of bad there.

Lawrence played much better against the Buckeyes in the Sugar Bowl, but not near the level Fields was playing at.
 

Calabis

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Indiana and Northwestern exposed some flaws in his game. He takes too long to make reads. That's why he fell, and that is what will be his undoing if he doesn't make it in the NFL (barring injury). His physical talent is superior to Trevor Lawrence and is about as good as you'll possibly find.
Northwestern had the best defense in the country...didnt Lawerence struggle against Virgina Tech also LSU in bowl game lthe year before? Also Wilson vs Central Michigan.

I believe it's unintentional, but it's the same old shit....Fields intelligence was questioned on reading the field and defenses(he faced the overall higher ranked ones out of all the QBs)....he was a great athletic talent with a good arm, blah, blah blah

The other two...intelligent, smart, blah blah blah...same with Mac Jones....oh the ability to read the field...with NFL first rounders all over the place.
 

TonyDogs

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Why Fields fell...

I agree with the above posts concerning Fields personality being a big reason. Fields isn't going to kiss anyones butt or smile throughout an interview. He's the anti-Russel Wilson, and I think that bothers certain people and coaching staffs. In that link, you can see how stoic Fields is. A team can take that as a lack of enthusiasm or arrogance, but it's just him.

Remember, these coaches have to build relationships with these guys and if they struggle to communicate with each other and can't connect it could be a turn off.

I have no way of knowing, this is just my opinion. But Fields is a far superior talent than Wilson or Lance, and this is coming from a 49ers fan.
 

Montucky

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Northwestern had the best defense in the country...didnt Lawerence struggle against Virgina Tech also LSU in bowl game lthe year before? Also Wilson vs Central Michigan.

I believe it's unintentional, but it's the same old shit....Fields intelligence was questioned on reading the field and defenses(he faced the overall higher ranked ones out of all the QBs)....he was a great athletic talent with a good arm, blah, blah blah

The other two...intelligent, smart, blah blah blah...same with Mac Jones....oh the ability to read the field...with NFL first rounders all over the place.
Its not about intelligence really. Its just a skill, and its a skill Justin Fields is not developed in. If he doesn't learn it he will struggle mightily in the NFL, if he does learn it his football life will probably be pretty easy if he can stay away from injuries. Its not an indictment of him as a human being, its just a reality of his game.

And let's be real playing for Ohio State against Big Ten competition is not really that much different than playing quarterback for Alabama in terms of surrounding talent.
 

BBBF

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Why Fields fell...

I agree with the above posts concerning Fields personality being a big reason. Fields isn't going to kiss anyones butt or smile throughout an interview. He's the anti-Russel Wilson, and I think that bothers certain people and coaching staffs. In that link, you can see how stoic Fields is. A team can take that as a lack of enthusiasm or arrogance, but it's just him.

Remember, these coaches have to build relationships with these guys and if they struggle to communicate with each other and can't connect it could be a turn off.

I have no way of knowing, this is just my opinion. But Fields is a far superior talent than Wilson or Lance, and this is coming from a 49ers fan.
Nobody in his family seems that excited that he just became a millionaire. I definately buy into the defense that it is how he was raised and not that he doesn't care.
 

DaaBears

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Lawrence looked like hot ass against LSU in his last Championship game. Didn’t he complete like less than half his passes and throw for 0 TDS? Some of his throws that game, got me to pump the brakes on Lawrence. There was a lot of bad there.

Lawrence played much better against the Buckeyes in the Sugar Bowl, but not near the level Fields was playing at.

Yes 18-37 , 234 yds, 0 TDs, and Burrow totally lit it up.
 

Montucky

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Nobody in his family seems that excited that he just became a millionaire. I definately buy into the defense that it is how he was raised and not that he doesn't care.
I think his family is pretty well off. I'm sure they are significantly more well off now that Justin Fields has a eleventh overall pick contract but it sure doesn't seem like anyone is being lifted out of poverty or anything.
 

cdubz11

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Why Fields fell...

I agree with the above posts concerning Fields personality being a big reason. Fields isn't going to kiss anyones butt or smile throughout an interview. He's the anti-Russel Wilson, and I think that bothers certain people and coaching staffs. In that link, you can see how stoic Fields is. A team can take that as a lack of enthusiasm or arrogance, but it's just him.

Remember, these coaches have to build relationships with these guys and if they struggle to communicate with each other and can't connect it could be a turn off.

I have no way of knowing, this is just my opinion. But Fields is a far superior talent than Wilson or Lance, and this is coming from a 49ers fan.
something to this for sure, Fields does not come off as a great conversationalist/interview. fine with me, let play do talking.

how anyone has Wilson or Lance ahead of Fields as a NFL QB prospect is purposely choosing the bigger longshot and more unknown option. zero chance they can show any evidence they will be better. who have Wilson or Lance played against? what was their biggest moment?

Wilson's hardest defense he played was probably Utah in 2019, where he went 21-33 0 tds 2 ints.
Wilson didn't even play a top 50 defense in 2020 lol. so ok good stats for 2020 but how does that look when NFL talent is coming at you and scheming against you.

Lance same story played nobody and even less experience and worse competition. i like his potential better than Wilson, but he is a shot in the dark honestly. how do you have any clue how he reacts to seeing NFL level athletes and coverages.

Fields played vs NFL talent more than any of other QBs, more games, and showed out in the biggest games. Mac Jones ok sure he played in big games, but come on nobody thought he was carrying their offense. they had ball off and run over everyone and nation's best WRs out there. Ohio St had talent sure, but nothing like Bama and they didn't rely on Jones like OSU relied on Fields to make plays.

physical size, arm strength, mobility with legs, speed, injury risk.......Fields is top of all these QBs in most those categories.

i think we reversed history, we got the Watson/Mahomes type guy and SF/NYJ will be maybe looking back like how the hell did we mess this up.
 

Calabis

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Its not about intelligence really. Its just a skill, and its a skill Justin Fields is not developed in. If he doesn't learn it he will struggle mightily in the NFL, if he does learn it his football life will probably be pretty easy if he can stay away from injuries. Its not an indictment of him as a human being, its just a reality of his game.

And let's be real playing for Ohio State against Big Ten competition is not really that much different than playing quarterback for Alabama in terms of surrounding talent.
Where is ur personal scouting report, that this is a skill he never learned? He doesn't posses this skill, yet is a first round draft pick. Plenty of highlights of him starting one way and coming back. Did Wilson develop this skill, playing street football against less than stellar competition? Is it that hard for Mac Jones with top 10 WRs at every spot?
 

cdubz11

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Nobody in his family seems that excited that he just became a millionaire. I definately buy into the defense that it is how he was raised and not that he doesn't care.

he was pissed off he fell so far and 3 other QBs taken ahead of him. he's super competitive. i'm sure he understood Lawrence, but i guarantee he watched Wilson and Lance go and thought wtf is going on here. lol i don't blame him. he mentioned a lot of "negative comments" leading up to draft. i think he was just so sick of it and then falls to 11 and probably had multiple teams above that say they were super interested and i'd bet even teams tell him if falls past 8 or 9 they'd move up to get him and they didn't. nobody knows. SF might have told him "be ready" and he thought he was going 3. ATL might have told him good chance we take you at 4. ya just don't know what any of these players have been dealing with.

he seemed really pissed off to me. guessing his family knew that too lol. i mean his sisters (?) looked like were hugging someone at a funeral giving condolences on their loss. obviously their family must be a little more serious and have a pretty disciplined home.
 

FoCo

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Justin-Fields.jpg
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cdubz11

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No way about 2020. I like fields but i am still taking burrows 1st overall.
i think it'd be really close. Burrows had Jefferson, Chase, Marshall 3 elite WRs i mean Jefferson n Chase are both like pro bowl WRs right now lol.

Burrow had 527 passing attempts in 2019.
Fields had 579 passing attempts in 2019 and 2020 combined.

lol don't get caught up in numbers Burrow put up, they let him throw a million times a game to Pro Bowl WRs, the DBs had zero chance. if OSU went full air raid mode Fields would put up similar numbers, as would other guys.

easy to get caught up in the story, it's like march madness. Jimmer or Morrison look awesome in tourney, then reality hits in pros. i just don't buy Burrows, i think it was lightning in a bottle of elite talent around him and a QB who had plenty of time in pocket and was very accurate. but i didn't see Burrow making a ton of plays on his own. i saw LSU WRs wide open 10 yds behind the defense or catching a 3 yd cross and running past everyone.
 

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