Don't ask me how

[Omeletpants]

-Bryant gone
-50/50 on Theo staying
-Hoyer is not a candidate to replace Theo
-Rizzo to be resigned
-Schwarber gone
-Players and management love Ross

That is all

 

[CSF77]

Talk about the safest betting line ever.

 

[Omeletpants]

Not my betting line or prediction

 

[CSF77]

You should on those odds.

 

[gopher72]

-Bryant gone
-50/50 on Theo staying
-Hoyer is not a candidate to replace Theo
-Rizzo to be resigned
-Schwarber gone
-Players and management love Ross

That is all

Moves are one year too late IMHO

 

[Omeletpants]

Moves are one year too late IMHO

They arent my moves or suggestions, just what will happen

 

[CSF77]

Bryant really depends on his market this off-season. LAD feels like a natural match up from both teams. If this drags until the deadline it would be a high gamble on him putting up enough quality production to get a decent return.

Seeing how it is a 1 year rental I believe that he will be traded this winter in a weak 3B market.

If Theo goes it would be Ricketts action. I do not see Tom firing him. Theo was the guy doing the axing going into this season and it is far more likely that he finishes his contract.

The next one I kinda agree on. But I want to see Jason McLeod as the GM so I could see Jed moved up.

Rizzo would be about automatic signing as it gets.

Schwarber is the cheapest of the 4 and his only saving grace. I would say that this one is 50/50 depending on what happens with other players.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I don't see Hoyer in charge of anything. I don't think he compares to Theo's leadership qualities. I'd like to see Theo stay longer. I think he is very bright and understands where the initial rebuild failed lomg-term...meaning 1 WS win was great, but why is the team unsuccessful in the playoffs since. I'd like for him to see the "retool/rebuild" come to fruition in another WS Championship or several.

 

[CSF77]

I don't see Hoyer in charge of anything. I don't think he compares to Theo's leadership qualities. I'd like to see Theo stay longer. I think he is very bright and understands where the initial rebuild failed lomg-term...meaning 1 WS win was great, but why is the team unsuccessful in the playoffs since. I'd like for him to see the "retool/rebuild" come to fruition in another WS Championship or several.

I have some issue with his inability to target quality pitching. He played it soft there for years. Then he went to college players who were sluggers. He fell in love with the uppercut and the HR and kept away from hitter types until Nico.

I personally want to see McLeod running the show as he is a untapped talent. Jed would be a temp situation for Jason to adjust to running the team.

 

[knoxville7]

I have some issue with his inability to target quality pitching. He played it soft there for years. Then he went to college players who were sluggers. He fell in love with the uppercut and the HR and kept away from hitter types until Nico.

I personally want to see McLeod running the show as he is a untapped talent. Jed would be a temp situation for Jason to adjust to running the team.

I disagree on the pitching thing. He bought low and sold high or let them walk when the time was right many times.

the hitting thing I agree on. He fell in love with a certain type of hitter and filled the lineup with them, and it hasn’t worked out like he thought it would. He fell in love with OBP and HR and not much else mattered

 

[CSF77]

I disagree on the pitching thing. He bought low and sold high or let them walk when the time was right many times.

the hitting thing I agree on. He fell in love with a certain type of hitter and filled the lineup with them, and it hasn’t worked out like he thought it would. He fell in love with OBP and HR and not much else mattered

I was talking about his drafts.

 

[knoxville7]

I was talking about his drafts.

right, but nobody finds everything they need thru the draft. you have to look at the total picture to evaluate him. He finds pitching...just not in the draft

I’d actually argue Theo has been MORE successful with pitching than he has hitting.

 

[CSF77]

right, but nobody finds everything they need thru the draft. you have to look at the total picture to evaluate him. He finds pitching...just not in the draft

I’d actually argue Theo has been MORE successful with pitching than he has hitting.

He was good when Bosio was the PC and he had a run of rehab projects that were geared towards trades.

Hendricks and Arrietta were his best trade targets. But as far as drafting he has sucked. The only guy that he drafted with any potential was Cease. Every other one was college boys that were easy to sign. The list is long and that list has all failed as prospects.

His intl drafts have yielded better returns over all.

So I really don't agree with your opinion. Bryant, Schwarber, Happ, Contreras, Hoerner. That is far more successful. Trade chips were fine because those trades were geared to bring in pitching. But of all those trades the failure rate was just as high on the returns. Just the Garza trade alone. Every return flamed out. Hendricks was a chip in and Theo got lucky. The true target is playing overseas now. Jake was the biggest heist in the history of the game. He seems to flamed out early also. Trading Cease and Eloy for Q. Still feeling that one.

Theo got them a WS but don't over glorify him. It took 3 ugly years to even get a quality product. And now we are looking at a unstable situation that could result in another ugly situation.

To me I look at the Astroes and think that that is what could have been. The Cubs were in that situation and let it fall apart. Houston has been able to sustain that success. They made trades to keep contending at that level. Even TB has done better. They are in a crap market lose their GM and Manager and still strive for excellence in the worst division in
baseball.

So no. Boston IMO got better after Theo left. Cheating or not. 2 WS rings after he left can not be ignored. The Cubs on the other hand burnt everything to the ground then ramped up for 2016 then destroyed the farm system to sustain that run. The team got worse every year after and the system was in shambles in the aftermath.

 

[CSF77]

End of the story:

In 9 years he has 1 pitcher that they drafted to start a MLB game (Alzolay) That is a pretty crummy track record. But they have drafted a LF/CF/3B/2B/C.

Not even close

 

[Parade_Rain]

I have some issue with his inability to target quality pitching. He played it soft there for years. Then he went to college players who were sluggers. He fell in love with the uppercut and the HR and kept away from hitter types until Nico.

I personally want to see McLeod running the show as he is a untapped talent. Jed would be a temp situation for Jason to adjust to running the team.

I don't mind the idea of McLeod. Hoyer as a temp obviously doesn't work for me.

 

[knoxville7]

He was good when Bosio was the PC and he had a run of rehab projects that were geared towards trades.

Hendricks and Arrietta were his best trade targets. But as far as drafting he has sucked. The only guy that he drafted with any potential was Cease. Every other one was college boys that were easy to sign. The list is long and that list has all failed as prospects.

His intl drafts have yielded better returns over all.

So I really don't agree with your opinion. Bryant, Schwarber, Happ, Contreras, Hoerner. That is far more successful. Trade chips were fine because those trades were geared to bring in pitching. But of all those trades the failure rate was just as high on the returns. Just the Garza trade alone. Every return flamed out. Hendricks was a chip in and Theo got lucky. The true target is playing overseas now. Jake was the biggest heist in the history of the game. He seems to flamed out early also. Trading Cease and Eloy for Q. Still feeling that one.

Theo got them a WS but don't over glorify him. It took 3 ugly years to even get a quality product. And now we are looking at a unstable situation that could result in another ugly situation.

To me I look at the Astroes and think that that is what could have been. The Cubs were in that situation and let it fall apart. Houston has been able to sustain that success. They made trades to keep contending at that level. Even TB has done better. They are in a crap market lose their GM and Manager and still strive for excellence in the worst division in
baseball.

So no. Boston IMO got better after Theo left. Cheating or not. 2 WS rings after he left can not be ignored. The Cubs on the other hand burnt everything to the ground then ramped up for 2016 then destroyed the farm system to sustain that run. The team got worse every year after and the system was in shambles in the aftermath.

you don’t agree because you qualify all of his hits on pitching. You claim he got lucky with Hendricks. You mention arrieta as the greatest heist of all time but won’t give Theo credit for identifying pitching talent and buying it on the low. Don’t forget strop in that same deal.

you mention the current cubs situation and how it hasn’t lived up to the potential it had like the astros for example. Well, why do you think they haven’t lived up to the hype?! Hint, it hasn’t been the pitching that’s been the problem...it’s the hitting. So you can’t claim how much better of an eye Theo has for hitting talent over pitching when it’s the hitting that’s been the Achilles heel for this team. That’s why I argue Theo has a better eye for pitching.

 

[CSF77]

I don't mind the idea of McLeod. Hoyer as a temp obviously doesn't work for me.

Fair enough

 

[CSF77]

you don’t agree because you qualify all of his hits on pitching. You claim he got lucky with Hendricks. You mention arrieta as the greatest heist of all time but won’t give Theo credit for identifying pitching talent and buying it on the low. Don’t forget strop in that same deal.

you mention the current cubs situation and how it hasn’t lived up to the potential it had like the astros for example. Well, why do you think they haven’t lived up to the hype?! Hint, it hasn’t been the pitching that’s been the problem...it’s the hitting. So you can’t claim how much better of an eye Theo has for hitting talent over pitching when it’s the hitting that’s been the Achilles heel for this team. That’s why I argue Theo has a better eye for pitching.

Again my first post was geared towards the draft. You chose to open the flood gates and go all in.

Ok let's play:

1. He fails to sign Gonzalez and falls back to EJax.
2. Signs Scott Fieldman and trades for Jake and Stropp. Again I said that this was a heist.
3. Trades Dempster for Christan and Kyle Hendricks. Again Hendricks was the toss in. He took the time that Maddux was with the minor league system to heart and it worked. But at the time he was never on a radar.
4. Garza for a bunch of pitchers. Grimm was the only one that gained any return. Rest were seen as failures. And being the extra arm in the pen in 2016 and not even trusted with a game 7 doesn't make it a quality trade.
5. Lester was a reward for a long term friend. He earned it.
6. Trading for Q. Mega doah...
7. Signing Chatwood after failing to get Otani... really?
8. Darvish. Made up for the screw ups.
9. Kimbrel looks to be a solid long term move.

Getting into the draft.

Went with Almora #6. Atl's Ace and the White Sox ace both went past Theo. Both were HS teammates and conaidered the top HS arms going in. Again going back to the OP he did not target pitching in the early rounds of the draft. He opted to target easy to sign pitching that has been nothing more than minor league filler talent.

We can go on and on with this and the dynamic did change 2 years ago and they are now targeting ceiling vs floor talent.

Again you lost when you look at Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber, Happ, Contreras all as home grown talent and Alzolay as the ONLY drafted and proved (yet to be proven) MLB quality SP talent.

Sure Theo did some good work in trading for pitching early on but he also sold higher quality talent to extend a failed success story.

That said as we speak we have Alzolay and Marquez is close. Those two could change the dynamic but it shouldn't take 10 years to finally see a result.

 

[knoxville7]

Again my first post was geared towards the draft. You chose to open the flood gates and go all in.

Ok let's play:

1. He fails to sign Gonzalez and falls back to EJax.
2. Signs Scott Fieldman and trades for Jake and Stropp. Again I said that this was a heist.
3. Trades Dempster for Christan and Kyle Hendricks. Again Hendricks was the toss in. He took the time that Maddux was with the minor league system to heart and it worked. But at the time he was never on a radar.
4. Garza for a bunch of pitchers. Grimm was the only one that gained any return. Rest were seen as failures. And being the extra arm in the pen in 2016 and not even trusted with a game 7 doesn't make it a quality trade.
5. Lester was a reward for a long term friend. He earned it.
6. Trading for Q. Mega doah...
7. Signing Chatwood after failing to get Otani... really?
8. Darvish. Made up for the screw ups.
9. Kimbrel looks to be a solid long term move.

Getting into the draft.

Went with Almora #6. Atl's Ace and the White Sox ace both went past Theo. Both were HS teammates and conaidered the top HS arms going in. Again going back to the OP he did not target pitching in the early rounds of the draft. He opted to target easy to sign pitching that has been nothing more than minor league filler talent.

We can go on and on with this and the dynamic did change 2 years ago and they are now targeting ceiling vs floor talent.

Again you lost when you look at Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber, Happ, Contreras all as home grown talent and Alzolay as the ONLY drafted and proved (yet to be proven) MLB quality SP talent.

Sure Theo did some good work in trading for pitching early on but he also sold higher quality talent to extend a failed success story.

That said as we speak we have Alzolay and Marquez is close. Those two could change the dynamic but it shouldn't take 10 years to finally see a result.

lol okay dude, make up parameters as you go. You didn’t say it was draft specific in your OP. You said, “Theos inability to target quality pitching.” That does not specify draft only. You’re now picking a specific area when there’s multiple ways to target quality pitching...not just via the draft.

LOL @ “I lost” due to the “homegrown talent” of position players, when you and everyone else complains about the core of position players we have. Either they suck or they don’t...you can’t have it both ways.

also, rizzo was not a homegrown talent...so stop trying to count him in there. We didn’t draft him since you’re claiming only guys we drafted count now. So kinda you losing not me

again, pitching is the strength of this team not hitting.

 

[CSF77]

lol okay dude, make up parameters as you go. You didn’t say it was draft specific in your OP. You said, “Theos inability to target quality pitching.” That does not specify draft only. You’re now picking a specific area when there’s multiple ways to target quality pitching...not just via the draft.

LOL @ “I lost” due to the “homegrown talent” of position players, when you and everyone else complains about the core of position players we have. Either they suck or they don’t...you can’t have it both ways.

also, rizzo was not a homegrown talent...so stop trying to count him in there. We didn’t draft him since you’re claiming only guys we drafted count now. So kinda you losing not me

again, pitching is the strength of this team not hitting.

Here is the quote

I have some issue with his inability to target quality pitching. He played it soft there for years. Then he went to college players who were sluggers. He fell in love with the uppercut and the HR and kept away from hitter types until Nico.

If you read the paragraph it said he has had issue with targeting quality pitching. Then continues with the draft and sluggers. I did not once refer to trades or F/A signings in that paragraph.

To be honest your reply kinda threw me back some as I had no idea that that paragraph would be segmented into 1 sentence and the rest discarded and a argument over a ambiguous statement.

Regardless your statement holds value. The Cubs and most teams by nature win and lose by pitching. Period. That is not to be argued. But the statement that Theo failed to acquire quality pitching via the draft is true also. There is no argument here either.

Now saying that Theo scored in the international round with Alzolay and Marquez is a strong argument for him. He has done much better on that front targeting talent.

Saying he was good in building the team via trade is true. But he also wrecked the future in the same instance.

Signing F/A. Well there is Chatwood and EJax vs Lester, Kimbrel and Darvish. And it feels when he aims high he gets it right. When he misses his target his back up plan is a trainwreck.

He has been a mix bag from day 1. He has excelled international market. Below the curve national draft. Trades are a mix bag. F/A signings have been under market value as a whole to date.

But in the building phase he was great. He was great busing the Sox also. But his last year's were flawed by misfired trades also.

Some things never change.

But at least he put together a quality plan for running a MLB org vs the ma and pa shop that he inherited.