Don't they have to blow it up?

Steve_A

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The Team is winning a bit lately but they've

1 Traded away Darvish who has a 1.75 ERA this year last year
2 Can't re-sign Bryant who probably would like to go somewhere else at this point
3 Rizzo as well considering the negotiations so far
4 Is Javy even worth resigning?
5 Contreras needs to be resigned for the lack of backstop prospects but does he want to stay?

It'll probably be a long long rebuild if these guys go but will the team be able to keep them even if they wanted to?
And does the team want to to begin out with?

What do you all think?
 
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beckdawg

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No but it kind of depends on your definition of "blow it up". To me blowing it up implies dealing off everything. But in my eyes I think the only two majors pieces I'd trade would be Bryant and Kimbrel. Javy you may want to re-sign or you may not but worst case you attach a QO to him assuming those still exist in the new CBA. I don't think you're going to get that much better of a prospect for him in trade on a one year deal. Rizzo I think will eventually be re-signed. There's really no reason not to. They don't have anyone better to take his place longer term and he's kinda the team leader.

As for Bryant, I think you gotta see what kind of offers are out there. Yes it feels a bit weird trading a guy if you aren't totally selling off but like with the Darvish trade I feel as though it's a move you make to get better for the long term while not completely selling off. And having Bote already softens the loss slightly because while Bote is never going to be a star he can be an ok starter while you reconfigure pieces.

Kimbrel i just think is gonna have way more trade value than value to the actual cubs. If you're a lower end playoff team a closer isn't putting you over the top. And given the way he's pitched maybe someone makes a Miller/Chapman like offer.

Moving those 2 players will set the cubs back but it's not completely unreasonable that they could still make the playoffs without them while also still getting better long term.
 

Bust

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The Team is winning a bit lately but they've

1 Traded away Darvish who has a 1.75 ERA this year last year
2 Can't re-sign Bryant who probably would like to go somewhere else at this point
3 Rizzo as well considering the negotiations so far
4 Is Javy even worth resigning?
5 Contreras needs to be resigned for the lack of backstop prospects but does he want to stay?

It'll probably be a long long rebuild if these guys go but will the team be able to keep them even if they wanted to?
And does the team want to begin out with?

What do you all think?

Money Talks. All you need to know. Some players agents will insist on market value #scottboras while others "claim" a discount. Back in the day JayHey claimed he left money on the table just to sign with the cubs.
 

CSF77

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Players sign for many reasons. Some players are greedy. Some players want to play for a org. Some players will drop cash for opertunites to get hardware.

You really can't put any player into one box and say he will because.

Bryant we assume is greedy because of Boras. Boras has done deals that work for both the player and the team.

Max Scherzer rhp
7 years/$210M (2015-21)

  • 7 years/$210M (2015-21)
    • signed by Washington as a free agent 1/21/15
    • $50M signing bonus
      • $5M in 2015 and $15M each in 2019, 2020, 2021
      • payments in equal semiannual installments, April-September
    • salaries: 15:$10M, 16-18:$15M annually. 19-21:$35M annually
    • 2019-21 salaries ($105M) deferred without interest, to be paid in seven $15M installments each July 1 from 2022 to 2028
    • deferrals reduce contract’s present-day value to $191,401,086 (by MLB calculation) or $191,409,858 (MLBPA calculation)
    • for purposes of annual payrolls (including salaries and a pro-rated 1/7 share of the signing bonus), Scherzer will earn $17,142,857 in 2015, $22,142,857 annually in 2016-18, $37,405,562 in 2019, $35,920,616 in 2020, and $34,503,480 in 2021 (salaries and bonus paid before the contract expires are not discounted, but 2019-21 salaries are discounted to $30,262,705, $28,777,759 and $27,360,623, respectively, as money paid after deal’s expiration)
    • for luxury-tax purposes, Scherzer’s annual salary is $28,689,376
    • award bonuses: $100,000 each for All Star, Gold Glove, Silver Slugger. $150,000 for LCS MVP. $0.25M for WS MVP. $500,000 each for MVP, Cy Young, with $250,000 for second place in either award vote, $150,000 for third, $100,000 for fourth, $75,000 for fifth
    • perks: suite on road
    • deal does not include no-trade protection, though Scherzer will gain right to block any trade as 10-and-5 player after the 2019 season
 

CSF77

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The deferred 105M saved the tax hit and keeps paying Max 15M per year until 2028. Pretty good to get paid while on your sail boat enjoying retirement.

So it has happened with Boras and a player like Bryant who is a team guy could easily do a 8 year deal with deferred payments that go into his 40's.
 

CSF77

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To me the question is what are you getting in the 5 year window.

Heyward was 26. We got crap that you could have gotten at a fraction of the cost. Heyward coming in lacked constant production. It was good avg and below avg. He went power to singles. There was no set type of player. This has continued as he kept tinkering.

Bryant has been the same guy. Sure injury and degraded 3B defense has been the root cause. But him on the outfield where his D is back on par with league avg D and a resurgence on his O looking into a 5 year window he holds the most value as a corner OF vs a 3B.

Now the question is fit. Does Bryant fit in a corner OF for the Cubs for 5 years? Yes but they have a issue. Heyward is getting paid 23M per year until 2023 in the ideal spot. That leaves 3B where you are losing player value. Or 1B which is lowering his value by a bit but not as much.


Rizzo has been injured with a chronic back injury that will only get worse as he ages. In a 5 year window it is a bad investment. His production has also degraded. His strongest suit is his OBA but he plays a power hitters position.

Baez he is the oddball. He does so much but as far as the stat line goes it is not enough to justify a 20+M AAV.

So with SS being a deep class the Cubs could invest into more numbers guys that justify the investment vs a circus act that will get paid.

I love Javy but what he doesn't do gets overshadowed by the circus event
 

CSF77

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So if I had to invest it would be into Bryant, Contreras, Alzolay. Lock them up. Adbert to control his pay increases.

Bryant I would move to 1B until Heyward is off the books. SS I would look into Seimans in a shorter term window. The Cubs need a bridge to their SS depth not a road block.

3B Bote and Duffy are fine there. Bryant can also man it as needed. It would be more of a pivot. Another option would be Happ as he has played there in the past and his bat does play up to justify it. This would be a decent solution if they went a different direction in CF.
 

knoxville7

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I’d be looking to trade Kimbrel, Happ, Bryant, Baez, Davies, Arrieta, Rizzo, Pederson, Duffy, and even Hendricks. All would be dependent on getting the right offer for each of them...not just trading them to trade them. And obviously you wouldn’t trade ALL of them by the trade deadline, but those are the guys I’d be listening to offers on
 

Bust

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I’d be looking to trade Kimbrel, Happ, Bryant, Baez, Davies, Arrieta, Rizzo, Pederson, Duffy, and even Hendricks. All would be dependent on getting the right offer for each of them...not just trading them to trade them. And obviously you wouldn’t trade ALL of them by the trade deadline, but those are the guys I’d be listening to offers on

It's Official, Cub players read this board!

 

CSF77

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Jed is most likely waiting on June's result.

San Diego
San Francisco
San Diego
St Louis
Mets
Miami
Cleveland
Dodgers
Milwaukee

They only have 2 off days for the month.

The team has a grind coming up and if they prove to be fighters I can see Jed adding to give them a fighting chance. They get overwhelmed then it is time to burn.
 

zack54attack

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When does the TV money kick in? Or can I go boo the Ricketts at CubsCon when they talk about Marquee?
 

CSF77

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LF Pull opt on Joc Pederson
CF Trade Happ Promote Brennan Davis
RF Cut Heyward and eat his remainder Resign Bryant
3B Keep Wisdom
SS QO Baez and target Marcus Semien
2B Nico's home
1B Resign Rizzo
C Extend Contreras

Heyward costs 22M payoff
Joc 10M op t
Nico, Wisdom and Davis league min.
Semien, Contreras and Rizzo 20M AAV each
Bryant 30M AAV

Starting 8 cost: Aprox 123.5M

Bench:
Amaya C League min
Bote UI 2.5M
Marisnick OF 4M opt
Sergio Alcantara UI league min

Aprox 7.7M

Rotation
Arrieta 2M buyout
Hendricks 14M
Azolay League min
Steel League min
Thompson League min

Aprox 17.5M

BP
Kimbrel 16M
Chafin 5.25M opt
Wick league min
Weick league min
Maples league min
Nance league min
Rest are rotational off 40 man

Aprox 24M

Total 172.2M

Needs: 1 SP Internal options: Marquez and Abbott or pull William's opt.
External I would target Carlos Rodon. 22M AAV and let Marquez develop for the year.

This puts the rotation at:

Hendricks
Rondon
Alzolay
Steel
Thompson

Pen would still have Nance and Kimbrel. Both are nasty. Wick would be back and provide a stable 7th inning and 3rd closer.

Team would still have the stability of the vets with Davis maturing. Happ they should sell his last 2 years off and just eat Heyward's 44M left.
 

Chicagosports89

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LF Pull opt on Joc Pederson
CF Trade Happ Promote Brennan Davis
RF Cut Heyward and eat his remainder Resign Bryant
3B Keep Wisdom
SS QO Baez and target Marcus Semien
2B Nico's home
1B Resign Rizzo
C Extend Contreras

Heyward costs 22M payoff
Joc 10M op t
Nico, Wisdom and Davis league min.
Semien, Contreras and Rizzo 20M AAV each
Bryant 30M AAV

Starting 8 cost: Aprox 123.5M

Bench:
Amaya C League min
Bote UI 2.5M
Marisnick OF 4M opt
Sergio Alcantara UI league min

Aprox 7.7M

Rotation
Arrieta 2M buyout
Hendricks 14M
Azolay League min
Steel League min
Thompson League min

Aprox 17.5M

BP
Kimbrel 16M
Chafin 5.25M opt
Wick league min
Weick league min
Maples league min
Nance league min
Rest are rotational off 40 man

Aprox 24M

Total 172.2M

Needs: 1 SP Internal options: Marquez and Abbott or pull William's opt.
External I would target Carlos Rodon. 22M AAV and let Marquez develop for the year.

This puts the rotation at:

Hendricks
Rondon
Alzolay
Steel
Thompson

Pen would still have Nance and Kimbrel. Both are nasty. Wick would be back and provide a stable 7th inning and 3rd closer.

Team would still have the stability of the vets with Davis maturing. Happ they should sell his last 2 years off and just eat Heyward's 44M left.
You're being reactionary again. Wisdom at 3b going forward after like 4 good games? He's exactly the player that usually has a good couple weeks then falls off a cliff. I hope he can keep it up, but I wouldn't bet on it. You make rash decisions way too quick on players
 

knoxville7

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You're being reactionary again. Wisdom at 3b going forward after like 4 good games? He's exactly the player that usually has a good couple weeks then falls off a cliff. I hope he can keep it up, but I wouldn't bet on it. You make rash decisions way too quick on players


So if I had to invest it would be into Bryant, Contreras, Alzolay. Lock them up. Adbert to control his pay increases.

Bryant I would move to 1B until Heyward is off the books. SS I would look into Seimans in a shorter term window. The Cubs need a bridge to their SS depth not a road block.

3B Bote and Duffy are fine there. Bryant can also man it as needed. It would be more of a pivot. Another option would be Happ as he has played there in the past and his bat does play up to justify it. This would be a decent solution if they went a different direction in CF.

yeah, just a couple days ago he had happ as the starting 3B, now he’s trading Happ and playing wisdom there because of the last few days. Reactionary as fuckkkkkk

though, I’m glad he’s now on board with trading Happ at least lol
 

Diehardfan

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yeah, just a couple days ago he had happ as the starting 3B, now he’s trading Happ and playing wisdom there because of the last few days. Reactionary as fuckkkkkk

though, I’m glad he’s now on board with trading Happ at least lol
Not sure why you think Happ is a big moving part....better to keep him and hope he improves because as of right now, he won't draw flies in any trade scenario. The guy they need to move is Kimbrel. I mean he's already fallen off the table twice plus he's 33 and been closing for 11 years....his long range forcast is cloudy at best. He's a guy who relies on big time heat and that's usually the first thing to go as a pitcher. He will never be as good or as valuable as he is right now and it's almost a lock he starts regressing in the near future.
 

zack54attack

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This market and a TV deal? No they shouldn’t have to. But they will
 

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