Draft thread

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,946
Liked Posts:
37,927
The fuck.

Arob is a slow fat shit according to you and had more TD's than any of those guys you listed and a top 5 Y/C in 2015.

Once again, if you can ball, you can ball. The end result is the same. Doesn't matter if you're snatching peanuts off someones head or breaking free 10 yards.

The only thing nagy has shown he likes at wideout is good route running. Not speed, not height, not length.

You're the only one obsessed with fast guys.

It is 2020 not 2015 and we arent talking about ARob but Williams.

And Nagy signed Gabriel for his speed. We are missing a player like him now that he was cut.
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
32,616
Liked Posts:
19,025
imagine a Chicago Bears fan saying if a great running back is available to trade down......
Imagine thinking RBs are the key component to winning in 2020, as though this were the 1970's. Or thinking you should draft a position that is not one of need simply because of "tradition".
 

BaBaBlacksheep

Half Mod.
Staff member
CCS Hall of Fame '21
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
39,128
Liked Posts:
52,132
Imagine thinking RBs are the key component to winning in 2020, as though this were the 1970's. Or thinking you should draft a position that is not one of need simply because of "tradition".

never said they were “the key component”. You made that up
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,946
Liked Posts:
37,927
Tee Higgins has 25 TD's in the last two seasons.

If I have to remind you points win games, then you're beyond saving Remy.

Yes and Albert O has 23 in 98 receptions yet you still doubt him. We all have our preferences.
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
32,616
Liked Posts:
19,025
Air Yards Per Target:Yards Per Catch rank in the NFL

Gabriel 33:65
Robinson 41:72
Miller 53: 55

We throw the ball short a lot.

We also attempted 104 passes to Tarik Cohen with an average depth of less than 1 yard from the line of scrimmage.
Yeah, but by the time he was finished running East-West, a few of those plays netted upwards of a yard and a half.
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
32,616
Liked Posts:
19,025
Pace is going QB with our 1st pick, then trading down with our 2nd pick. I really don't see it playing out any other way. Foles and Mitch aren't even close to being long term solutions. Rookie QB can be groomed for a year, then start next year with Foles as backup. Unless Foles happens to light it up this year, in which case he remains as starter, giving the new QB even more time to groom. Take advantage of the deep draft at certain positions and Pace can still pick up starters with our picks from the round 2 tradeback (ideally we get a couple of 3rd rounders, which roughly matches up with the draft charts for value).
Pace needs someone who will make an impact sooner than a QB will. He doesn't have the time to wait for the better long term answer.
 

Chicago4Life

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 24, 2012
Posts:
3,448
Liked Posts:
1,941
anyone else seeing how there's articles about how much the bears have talked to this TE prospect and that TE prospect, smells like a smokescreen, usually pace keeps it as close to the vest as possible. So far both Kmet and Hopkins have been getting a lot of bears attention recently...
 

msadows

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 23, 2012
Posts:
22,452
Liked Posts:
17,186
It is 2020 not 2015 and we arent talking about ARob but Williams.

And Nagy signed Gabriel for his speed. We are missing a player like him now that he was cut.

Sigh.

You're unbearable.

My point is as long as you score points you win games. Doesn't matter what kind of WR you are.

And turbo was an excellent route runner. He wasn't just all speed. You fall in love with fast guys. You don't care if they run good routes.
 

msadows

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 23, 2012
Posts:
22,452
Liked Posts:
17,186
Yes and Albert O has 23 in 98 receptions yet you still doubt him. We all have our preferences.

Having 12 touchdowns in the last 2 years as a TE is a little different than having 25 TD's in the last 2 years as a WR.

I think its more than double. But I'm not sure. You're the math guy...mind helping me?
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,946
Liked Posts:
37,927
Sigh.

You're unbearable.

My point is as long as you score points you win games. Doesn't matter what kind of WR you are.

And turbo was an excellent route runner. He wasn't just all speed. You fall in love with fast guys. You don't care if they run good routes.

Yes and there are different ways to score points.

Higgins had 27 TDs on 135 receptions in his career. Albert O had 23 on 98 receptions. They get evaluated on whole college career not just cherry picking last 2 years. Albert O scored a TD every 4 receptions which is a better TD rate than Higgins.

And if it is about scoring points fixating on route running misses the point. Plenty of guys score in the NFL even if their route running was not perfect in college.

So again you have your preferences and I have mine. Trying to pretend one is better than the other is silly. There is more than one way to succeed in NFL.
 

vabearsfan15

Well-known member
Joined:
Mar 12, 2013
Posts:
7,430
Liked Posts:
5,239
Tee Higgins is a very good prospect. He is elite at contorting his body and adjusting himself to make a catch. He increases the catch radius around makes himself a larger target for his QB. I agree it's similar to a guy like A-Rob and even Brandon Marshall. They might be covered but they know how to use their body to give themselves the advantage.

This is the skill that gives receivers longevity. Guys like KJ Hammler are fast and elusive, but get beat up quick in the NFL. Look.at our own team with Tarik Cohen, Taylor Gabriel, and even Anthony Miller to a degree. These type of guys deteriorate.

With that said I think Tee is a guy you could trade back into the 3rd and have a decent shot at. His catching abilities elevate him as a prospect to me, but doesnt put him head and shoulders above other 2nd round prospect. Thought I grade him there in the mix.
 

thedarkstark

Active member
Joined:
Sep 17, 2018
Posts:
315
Liked Posts:
393
WR is so far down on our list of needs: OL, DB, TE, ILB, and QB are much higher on the totem pole. If nobody can step up among: Ridley, Wims, or Patterson and snag that #3 spot then Pace deserves to be canned already for all his draft and FA whifs. Cohen will take ocassional reps at wideout also.
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,946
Liked Posts:
37,927
WR is so far down on our list of needs: OL, DB, TE, ILB, and QB are much higher on the totem pole. If nobody can step up among: Ridley, Wims, or Patterson and snag that #3 spot then Pace deserves to be canned already for all his draft and FA whifs. Cohen will take ocassional reps at wideout also.

If Pace is going to gamble his job on one of those 3 stepping up then he probably should be fired.

Not to mention Miller keeps separating his shoulder.
 

thedarkstark

Active member
Joined:
Sep 17, 2018
Posts:
315
Liked Posts:
393
If Pace is going to gamble his job on one of those 3 stepping up then he probably should be fired.
It's a much safer gamble then betting on any of: Coward, Daniels, Leno, Massie or the castoff gang

Can't throw the ball if you're face down in the dirt.
 

PrideisBears

Bully Mod
Staff member
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '21
Joined:
Jun 20, 2010
Posts:
38,327
Liked Posts:
32,997
Location:
In the mod forum planning your ban
I think OL is a bigger priority as well
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,946
Liked Posts:
37,927
It's a much safer gamble then betting on any of: Coward, Daniels, Leno, Massie or the castoff gang

Can't throw the ball if you're face down in the dirt.

It actually isnt. Massie, Leno and Daniels actually have significant starts in NFL where they have played well.

CP is a draft bust, Wimms has barely seen the field, Ridley has seen the field even less than Wimms, Miller has separated his shoulder around 7 times, and ARob may walk.

Having said that we have 2 2nd round picks and can use one on OL but WR is a huge need. OL is as well. Some of the other positions you referenced are not hence my response.
 

Adipost

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Sep 28, 2014
Posts:
8,616
Liked Posts:
10,212
Location:
Chicago, IL
Here is Fahey’s breakdown of Higgins and Mims for anyone interested...


Tee Higgins Has Huge Upside

Tee Higgins is primed to be compared to A.J. Green.
Clemson's standout receiver enters the draft with a 6'4", 216 lb frame. He's not a hulking body, but rather a slender athlete who shows explosiveness and fluidity through his breaks. He moves in a way few big receivers move. As such, comparisons to Green are inevitable.

The problem is that he's not on A.J. Green's level when it comes to strength at the catch point, catch radius, upper body strength and catch consistency.

Higgins is more likely to be the next DeVante Parker than he is the next Green. A taller receiver capable of explosive plays whose upside will keep him in the league a long time but whose inconsistencies will prevent him from ever being a high-end starter. Parker never developed, and it's not a coincidence he had his best season on a team that had no standards to be held to.

And that's where Higgins can hope to diverge from Parker's path. He can enter the league as an upside player and develop consistency with the team that drafts him.

1.gif


The South Carolina game offered a broad look at Higgins' overall prospect profile. This first place sees him beat press with good quick hands. The defender uses his inside hand initially, to contact Higgins. When Higgins knocks that away, he has a lane to release past his inside shoulder.

One nitpick with this release is that Higgins allows the defender to slow him through his stem with his outside arm. If he was stronger he could accelerate through that leverage because of the angle of the arm as the defender turns.

Ultimately, Higgins winds up on the other side of the defender downfield. He smartly brings his body close to the defender to stop him in his tracks.

At that point the defender is looking around for the ball as it arrives to his blindspot. Higgins manipulated the defender to give himself an opportunity to make a clean catch. This is where he needs to attack the ball stronger. It's not an easy play, but it's a play that's there to be made.
The defender's hand is him his chest and touches the inside of his elbow(s). With the ball away from his body, Higgins has to snatch it with strength and twist so he moves away from the defender and secures possession. Instead it pops out for the incompletion.

DeAndre Hopkins is the best receiver in the league at making this type of play. He'll get into the defender as he's catching the ball and generate more contract to get the ball closer to his body as he falls to the ground. Higgins was trying to complete this catch while staying on his feet.

1.gif


One of his two touchdowns in this game came against press. He was the inside receiver in a triple bunch to the wide side of the field. His quickness here is what sets up this touchdown. He threatens an inside release before getting on top of the cornerback quickly past his outside shoulder.

This is an ideal release from a prospect because it's subtle, it's sharp and most importantly, it's quick. There are plenty of examples of receivers making more elaborate moves that draw more attention because they are fancy, but they aren't NFL-calibre releases. This is an NFL calibre release.

Once in his route, Higgins then uses his size to leverage space off the cornerback. Again, this is NFL-calibre work.

By using his inside arm and his shoulder more than an extended arm, Higgins is pushing off in a manner that's least likely to be called by the officials. This allows for an uncontested catch in the corner of the endzone on a well-thrown ball. His weight will allow him to bully defensive backs whenever he gets his timing right.

1.gif


Being 6'4" and 216 lbs means you're bigger than every cornerback you face. Maybe Richard Sherman can match you physically. But even those who can come close to matching your body's mass will be at a major disadvantage once you have the ball in space.

Cornerbacks are the best athletes in the NFL but they're also asked to play in a huge amount of space and they have small bodies. Higgins with the ball in his hands may as well be Adrian Peterson when they close to tackle him. They'll have to wrap up and concede ground in the tackle to slow him down and assure they don't get brushed off.

Any defender that accelerates to Higgins to try and land a big hit make it easy for him to brush past them and continue downfield.

1.gif


On this play, the safety is coming at speed from the start. His angle is initially fine and you can see Higgins check him after he catches the ball. The receiver subtly changes his stride to draw the defender in then accelerates while changing his posture slightly so he can't be pushed out of bounds.

These are small movements but they are the difference between Higgins being tackled in space and reaching the endzone. His initial move to get past the first defender wasn't bad either.

Higgins is a big, balanced receiver with a burst of acceleration. Assuming he can get open consistently underneath, he could prove to be a hugely valuable YAC receiver. His 4.54 forty time showed on the field at Clemson. Breaking one tackle in space outside might be enough for him to gain 40 yards.

He should be able to get open underneath too.

1.gif


Having that balance and quickness in space is what gives Higgins massive upside as a route runner. He'll never need to be a great route runner to be effective because of his physical traits. Green is a great route runner and that's where Higgins is closest to making that comparison valid.

Not many receivers move this freely through breaks. The list of receivers his size who move like this can probably be counted on both hands.
When you consider his long speed, his size and this fluidity in and out of his breaks, the only thing preventing Higgins from being the best prospect in this draft is his consistency catching the ball.

1.gif


This is the type if play that Higgins needs to make. When his quarterback throws a low ball, he has the ability to adjust to it and get his hands on it but doesn't bring it in. The fluidity and catch radius is only valuable when these plays become consistent.

1.gif


His spacial awareness, fluidity and acceleration to put himself in this position is outstanding. it's not a position most receivers can put themselves in. But most receivers will make what is ultimately a routine catch for an NFL receiver. Higgins doesn't.

1.gif


Fixing Higgins' concentration will be the first priority. As a vertical, big-bodied receiver, he's always going to find himself in positions where drops are inevitable. It's tougher to make plays on the ball against tight coverage downfield. Those plays won't sink his value as a player. But these plays will.

This can be coached. Emphasising Higgins technique and forcing him to watch the ball into his body at all times should give him an opportunity to become a more efficient receiver.

Coaches can do it and he'll need to embrace it for it to actually work.

1.gif


Higgins is the type of receiver who is difficult to project to the NFL. It only takes one team to fall in love with him, ignore the inconsistencies, and draft him in the top 10. But his inconsistencies are also good reason to drop him into the second round. His talent is too high for him to drop any further than that.

This isn't like D.K. Metcalf. It's not like you're drafting a freak athlete who needs to be taught how to play receiver. Higgins will be capable from day one.

Splitting the difference and putting him in the second half of the first round, teams that make a lot of sense are the Green Bay Packers and San Francisco 49ers. Both systems would make use of his vertical route running ability and both have needs at receiver. He would be a like-for-like replacement for Marques Valdez-Scantling in terms of style for the Packers.

He'd bring the drop issues that plague the Packers receiving corps, but he'd also bring a level of playmaking and talent that is lacking in the offense as a whole. Higgins could develop as the #2 option with a quarterback capable of offsetting his drops.


Denzel Mims Has a lot of Work to do

There's a moment just after someone trips during a full sprint. The momentum keeps them in the air, but they're en route to hitting the ground hard. It's almost as if they are suspended in the air, slowly advancing toward their unavoidable collision while their limbs lose all coordinator.

If you've ever seen such a moment, you know what it's like watching Denzel Mims release from the line of scrimmage.

Mims is 6'3" and 207 lbs. He has 34" arms and 9.5 inch hands. He's a large receiver who can allow his weight to slow him down at times. There are clearly-defined negatives to his skill set that will limit his long-term upside in the NFL. Despite his strong performance at the combine, his tape suggests that there is an athletic upside, unlike comparable prospects who have gone on to great success at the next level.

His combine performance suggests that he has enough athleticism to be effective in the NFL. He'll be more situationally-reliant than the best receivers in the league. Like fellow big receiver D.K. Metcalf last season, Mims will need a coach who can maximize his hand usage off the line of scrimmage to give him a shot at beating press off the line.

Assuming he can do that, he'll then rely on his ability to win at the catch point to be a productive NFL player.

On the other side, Mims' bust potential is sky high. He struggles to release from the line, his routes have no definition, he's liable to be caught for offensive pass interference a lot and the lack of explosiveness will limit the separation he creates. He's going to be a narrow skill set player in the best case scenario.

1.gif


The first thing to note with a big-ball receiver is how he catches the ball. That big frame is only valuable if he's capable of catching the ball away from his body with his hands. Receivers who body catch every ball encourage the defender to disrupt the catch point.

This is a simple curl route but it's thrown wide of the mark so Mims has to pull it in after turning around.

1.gif


As Arizona Cardinals wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins will attest to, strong hands are vital for winning the ball against tight coverage. Because big-ball receivers don't create wide windows of separation, they have to be able to maintain control of the ball again against physical contact. Be it a hard hit or while carrying a defender's weight.

On this play, the defender even gets his hand between the receiver's to disrupt the catch point as the ball arrives.

By the time he gets to the ground, Mims has pulled the ball into his chest. However, prior to that point, he had to maintain control of it away from his body while the defender was trying to push it out. You can't make this play unless you have impressive grip strength.

1.gif


A nice aspect of Mims' skill set is his comfort working below his shoulders. Being tall and big is easy to see when the receiver high-points the ball above his opponent. It's not actually all that often you get opportunities to make those plays. Plays such as this one are more prevalent within he design of the offense. As such, they are more important.

This is the great equalizer of Mims' limited skill set. The defensive back covers this route perfectly and the ball is thrown to a spot that favours the pass breakup rather than the completion. Mims' frame boxes the defender out while his hands allow him to complete the play.

On this occasion, the reciever covers for the quarterback. But it also has to be acknowledged that the receiver not winning on the route makes it tougher for the quarterback to throw an accurate ball.

1.gif


Mims obviously won't be a slot receiver in the NFL. He can line up inside as a vertical option to stretch the field on occasion and he'd be a dominant blocker from an interior alignment on running plays. But he lacks the quickness to run routes from the slot. Mims will spend most of his career playing outside the numbers.
Having the ability to make this adjustment to the ball in the air then maintain possession of the ball through the catch point is critical.
Not to mention, Mims shows a nice release here by hesitating off the line of scrimmage. He threatens an in-breaking route with the defender gaining depth off the snap. It's a quick, subtle movement that creats an avenue for him to escape through down the sideline.
His quarterback does a good job of leading him to space this time too.

1.gif


Having such a large frame with the ability to run long distances in good time makes Mims an easy receiver to throw backshoulder passes to. He has the ability to redirect back to the ball and pull it in while the defender is forced to be aggressive going the other way.

Considering the lack of suddenness and precision in his routes as a whole, having this kind of ability to create plays down the sideline is important.

But Mims' ball skills are a problem. He has to improve his awareness at the catch point if he's going to have any chance of being a consistent player against NFL defensive backs. His primary problem is reading the flight of the ball in the air.

1.gif


This play is a prime example of the type of throw Mims is likely to see early in his career. Assuming he's not a full-time starter, Mims will be used when the offense reaches the redzone. Fade routes remain popular in the NFL despite their low rate of success because they are safe throws in a dangerous area of the field.

Mims' size means he would be the primary fade route receiver on most teams in the league.
On this play, the ball is thrown from the far hash with an ideal trajectory. It's put in a good spot too. Mims is locked into coverage by the defender from the start to the end of the play. But as he crosses the goal line, there is an opportunity for Mims to work through the defender's inside shoulder or allow himself to drift past his outside shoulder.

Going outside ends the play. The defensive back is always going to win from that point. Had Mims forced his way inside, he would have had an opportunity to high point the ball in front for the score.

1.gif


And we know that Mims can comfortably high point the ball when he puts himself in the right position.

1.gif


Reading the flight of the ball in the air is something Mims can get better at with experience. Coaching will help too. When his technique improves, he will have an understanding of how to best catch the ball, which will give him comfort reading what is happening as it develops in front of him.
This play is a great example of how coaching can help Mims.

He has no reason to leave his feet here. he catches the ball and somehow gets his feet in bounds. This is a negative play that shows off his ability at the catch point. A good coach will show him this play and teach him to keep his feet on the ground from the start. He can then more comfortably catch the ball with his hands while leaning over the sideine.

Refined technique leads to consistency.
Consistency is vitally important when you have a narrow skill set. Mims will be reliant on creating big plays and covering his quarterback's inaccuracy at the catch point. If he can only do that 50% of the time while offering nothing else, he'll be unemployed quickly. If he does that 90% of the time, he can be a high-end starter.

There's a lot of work to do to figure out Mims' fit in the NFL. He's currently projected to be a low first-round pick but he fits the profile of a receiver who falls into the second round to be more of a developmental prospect.

If your team is in desperate need of a starting receiver in 2020, Mims isn't the guy for you.
 
Last edited:

Adipost

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Sep 28, 2014
Posts:
8,616
Liked Posts:
10,212
Location:
Chicago, IL
Okay Bruh. Hey Bruh, why would i give a shit if i was the only one who wants Chinn at 43? I don't play follow the leader on here. I like J.Chinn so it wouldn't bother me if we draft him at 43 and it would bother you. Now if i don't give a shit that it bothers you then why do you care so much that it doesn't bother me....Bruh?

Good talk Bruh.

I absolutely love Chinn. He’s a first round talent all day everyday. The Harrison Smith comp is no joke, but he’s even bigger, faster and more athletic than Smith. He’d be a perfect fit next to Eddie Jackson.
 

Top