Duncan Keith traded to Edmonton

HSBOB

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He didn't make 11.5 while he was here. I'm not saying I want Big Cat gone, i love him. I'm just saying if that's what it takes to finally get some stability on the offense then fine. Do it now while Kane can still carry a line and find his replacement. You know what those 40 goals got the hawks in 2018-2019... 9th in scored... 2nd in goals against per game. Obviously, that's not all on him. But the defense has been a big problem for a while now. They relied too heavily on Keith and Seabs to just always be there, and even when they were they weren't themselves. They have been in the top 2 of shots against per game in for the last 3 years. And in the top 10 for the last 7 years.
I know what Panarin made here but his value on the open market was 11.5M. He's a better passer/play maker than D-Cat but he's never had better than a 32 goal season(D-Cat matched that in 52 games last year)and there's no comparison defensively. Find his replacement? Where and for how much? Certainly NOT in-house my friend.

D-Cat didn't have to play with Kane to post those numbers last year and he didn't when he potted 41 as a 21 yro either.

Let's compare the quality of D-Cat's linemates last year to any other top scorer.
 

HSBOB

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This is the 3rd time you referenced the Isles anecdote, as if that one isolated game is meaningful in any respect.

And this is the 3rd time you invented things I said or think, you keep creating strawmen apparently in an attempt to bolster your position.

This is just silly. You win.
I never referenced anything you didn't say.....feel free to show an example but you have refused to counter the stats and improved play on the part of the 23yro that I mention.
I said "IMO,you're under valuing the 23yro sniper" and I believe you are.........IN MY OPINION....no words in anyone's mouth.

A game seven in the conference finals isn't isolated......it was the Isle biggest game of the year and they couldn't score a single goal........that's not meaningful? I've posted stats and my assessment of a young superstar that plays for the Hawks and that seems to upset you for some reason........of course I'm making my case.

I never said stellar defensive play isn't required to win a cup because it is.....as is timely goal scoring.

How does heaping praise on this 23yro superstar make you or anyone else a strawman and how is it silly?

"You win"? C'mon.......I thought we were just debating the value of two great young players.
 

Diehardfan

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I'm not sure why everyone is so big at getting Jones at this particular time. He will cost assets at a time when the Hawks are not very loaded with them. With DeHann, Murphy and Strome going off the books in 2022, it might be a prudent move to wait go after him in free agency. We need to remember that both Kane and Toews' contracts expire the year after that...which has me also wondering if they plan on moving one or both of them. Its hard to fathom even an idiot like Bowman handing out two more huge contracts to 34/35 year players. No matter what their names are. There is a lot of change on the horizon. I mean there is no rush to go balls out for Jones right now.
 

RacerX

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I never referenced anything you didn't say.....feel free to show an example but you have refused to counter the stats and improved play on the part of the 23yro that I mention.
I said "IMO,you're under valuing the 23yro sniper" and I believe you are.........IN MY OPINION....no words in anyone's mouth.

A game seven in the conference finals isn't isolated......it was the Isle biggest game of the year and they couldn't score a single goal........that's not meaningful? I've posted stats and my assessment of a young superstar that plays for the Hawks and that seems to upset you for some reason........of course I'm making my case.

I never said stellar defensive play isn't required to win a cup because it is.....as is timely goal scoring.

How does heaping praise on this 23yro superstar make you or anyone else a strawman and how is it silly?

"You win"? C'mon.......I thought we were just debating the value of two great young players.

With all due respect, no, I am not wasting my time to go back and show you a half-dozen invented comments.

What I claimed is obviously verifiable and I say this with no malice or disrespect, it's just not really important enough to continue, Stan the Lesser gonna fuck things up regardless.
 

DaHawkz24

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I'd love Seth Jones too but why not wait a year(where the fuck are we goin' next year anyway?)and sign him as a UFA instead of giving up assets.....especially a generational scorer.

Why on earth would a rebuilding team give up a budding 23yro superstar or any top prospects instead of waiting a year?

Exactly. If the Hawks are expected to give up a 1st round pick and someone like Dach, Dabrincat, or Boqvist they need to have a contract in place like a sign and trade.

I wouldnt be happy giving up Dach or Dabrincat. Dach is still a work in progress, but the broken wrist in the WJC kept us from seeing the progress from the bubble playoffs. Dabrincat is a proven talent who might get better as well.
 

Granada

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Diehard and Bob -- the thing about waiting for Jones is that, there is a very good chance he won't be in Columbus next year. And if he isn't, that drastically lowers the chances of the Hawks getting him. He already has a modified NTC, so I don't think he'll okay a trade to a shit team -- unless he hates it that much in Columbus. And if he does, a shit team will probably give him an offer he can't refuse. My point is, waiting a year is dangerous, if the goal is to sign him. You can't hesitate.

Getting his brother may give the Hawks a shot, but that's far from a guarantee. Ask the Chicago White Sox.

I'm not saying all this because I'm hell bent on getting Jones -- like I said, I don't think I'd do it if it costs Debrincat -- just saying, it'd be dangerous to expect he'll be available in a year. If you want him, you have to strike now.
 

Diehardfan

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Diehard and Bob -- the thing about waiting for Jones is that, there is a very good chance he won't be in Columbus next year. And if he isn't, that drastically lowers the chances of the Hawks getting him. He already has a modified NTC, so I don't think he'll okay a trade to a shit team -- unless he hates it that much in Columbus. And if he does, a shit team will probably give him an offer he can't refuse. My point is, waiting a year is dangerous, if the goal is to sign him. You can't hesitate.

Getting his brother may give the Hawks a shot, but that's far from a guarantee. Ask the Chicago White Sox.

I'm not saying all this because I'm hell bent on getting Jones -- like I said, I don't think I'd do it if it costs Debrincat -- just saying, it'd be dangerous to expect he'll be available in a year. If you want him, you have to strike now.
Good point. Then it boils down to what they want for him....D-Cat is a finisher which the Hawks are sorely in short supply of and Dach is still a baby in the league. What else do they have to offer? Kuby, maybe? I mean, if you can't defend you damn sure need to able to score....moving any of those guys will cut into that demographic in a big way. Unless Columbus is looking at a rebuild and would be happy with picks....it doesn't look like a match of trading partners.
 

DaHawkz24

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At this point just hold everything and wait to pray for management to be gutted by the courts. One can dream.

The problem is that they might be able to legally sweep this under the rug with their motions to dismiss. Either way Bowman and anyone else involved should be gone.
 

MassHavoc

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The problem is that they might be able to legally sweep this under the rug with their motions to dismiss. Either way Bowman and anyone else involved should be gone.
Yeah, but the NHL could also through it's own investigation provide sanctions and punishments as well. They can't force an organization necessarily to get rid of folks, but they can make it so if they do maybe they don't come down as hard. I don't expect the legal system to do much if anything here when all is said and done, but hopefully the court of public opinion can get something or anything really to not let this just go away.
 

ruprecht

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Do some of you watch "the hockey"? No to Dach, no to Cat, blah blah blah. Jones is good, I'm a fan, but he ain't that good.

Sometimes the negativity and Chicken Little BS on this board is silly......
 

JimAKABlkhwks918

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In the around and around with who the Hawks have and who they need, and trading from a strength to shore up a weakness: the Hawks have mostly weaknesses, and few strengths. For me, I'm not giving up the Cat for Jones; he's not top tier, and he's a one year rental. I understand the Hawks have zero legit D with the loss of Keith, and a young stud Dman is a necessity to build a real team, but Jones isn't the answer right now, especially if the Cat and a first rounder is the price.
 

HSBOB

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Nick leddy aquired for Richard Panik. Hahahaha
They cleared all of Leddy's 5.5M and eat only half of Panik's 2.75M and get the 52dn pick in this year's draft form the Wings for a player they might have lost to expansion . Combine this with the 5.5m they cleared with the Ladd deal and the Isle are poised to make a BIG move soon.
 
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LordKOTL

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That's the thing. Jones is excellent but isn't top-tier, and even if he was it would take more than him to shore up the team D.

In my opinion, a guy like Jones would help if the team was on the upswing, and they aren't. We'd be overpaying for a player go be "the guy" without proper supporting players. Think like what Campbell was.
 

blackpep72

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That's the thing. Jones is excellent but isn't top-tier, and even if he was it would take more than him to shore up the team D.

In my opinion, a guy like Jones would help if the team was on the upswing, and they aren't. We'd be overpaying for a player go be "the guy" without proper supporting players. Think like what Campbell was.
He is not excellent he is good. And they should not overpay to get him.
 

Granada

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Meh, I'm not so sure. Jones isn't one-dimensional (i.e. not just an "offensive d-man"). The guy does it all, including on the PK, and he's in his prime (26 if memory serves). It's extremely rare for a talent like him to become available in this league -- especially a d-man, which is arguably the most coveted positional player in the game (with center being a close second). Normally, you have to acquire guys like him through the draft and wait years (and years) for them to develop in your system before they reach Jones' current level of play.

Honestly, I consider a guy like Dougie Hamilton to be a "shiny new toy" way before Jones. The hype I hear surrounding Hamilton is just ridiculous for his overall skill set, which pales to Jones' in my view.
 
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LordKOTL

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Meh, I'm not so sure. Jones isn't one-dimensional (i.e. not just an "offensive d-man"). The guy does it all, including on the PK, and he's in his prime (26 if memory serves). It's extremely rare for a talent like him to become available in this league -- especially a d-man, which is arguably the most coveted positional player in the game (with center being a close second). Normally, you have to acquire guys like him through the draft and wait years (and years) for them to develop in your system before they reach Jones' current level of play.

Honestly, I consider a guy like Dougie Hamilton to be a "shiny new toy" way before Jones. The hype I hear surrounding Hamilton is just ridiculous for his overall skill set, which pales to Jones' in my view.
Even Keith, who in his prime was on a higher echelon than Seth Jones is and probably ever will be, would not have been able to do everything himself. He had Seabrook as a partner, who himself was at least as good of an overall D-man as Jones, he had Hjammer as well to anchor the 2nd paring and Hjammer was elite defensively. Plus he also had Campbell and Oduja there as well...and that's just the backend.

Who do the 'hawks have now? Murphy is their best guy and he's equal to a worn-down Hjammer. That's it.

If the 'hawks were further along in building a team, I'd be willing to make a move like that. But right now I think Jones will be too far along in his career by the time the rest of the 'hawks team D catches up. Might as well save the money, suck for awhile, and get our resident beancounter fired, and get some high draft picks to develop.
 
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