Fields Development Goals

dabears70

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Disagree as this is an easy fix for me. Just a change in mentality. 3Ms problem was he sucked throwing deep so teams could crowd the short stuff and thus he was fucked and had trouble reading defenses that clogged the underneath passing game.

Fields cab hurt you deep but right now teams can clamp down on the deep stuff and rely on the fact Fields is too impatient to just take what the D gives.

Mahomes had a similar problem early last year when teams sat in Cover 2 to take away Hill and the deep stuff. Took him a few games to realize he had to stop hunting the big plays and just take what the D gives him.

I don't think this is an issue of him struggling to read defenses which is a bigger issue. He just has to accept a lot of 3 and 4 yard gains instead if waiting on 15 and 20 yard routes to open up.
I mean......come on now. Fixing a QB is far from an easy thing. If it was then every team would have a legit starting QB with some having legit ones as backups. This is the NFL. You either got it or you don't.
 

TexasBearfan

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That means he only completed 1 pass when under pressure.
all NFL QB's are under pressure...

look in Fields pre draft profile ....he is what he has always been, they have worked on his release all summer because they correctly identified he is too slow to get the ball out. We saw the evidence comparing his old windup with his new more compact windup in videos all summer, so he can mechanically release the ball faster, but what are they doing to help with his processing time/vision and is it even possible to speed this up or is this just the way he is wired? It wouldn't be such a daunting issue if his slower reads weren't combined with terrible pocket feel, but they are.

The Oline is not good and now losing Whitehair they're going to get this kid killed because he was one of the few legit quality starters on the line, and during this they're playing games with Jenkins....I see posts "oh let's get the young kids experience"....funk that, how about not destroying what's left of Fields' confidence? I see him regressing, they can't keep letting Mustipher getting pushed back into him all game....how TF do you learn to step up in the pocket when your C is getting thrown around like a rag doll. I watched Mustipher and Patrick last game and it actually disgusted me they weren't replaced...is it possible Eiselin is as bad as Mustipher? If Patrick can snap now why TF would Mustipher ever see the field again? How is it possible the coaches can't see what we see w/ Mustipher...and what is Olen Kreutz smoking?

Overview
Like Dak Prescott before him, Fields enters the league with dual-threat capabilities but is more of a pocket passer with the ability to extend plays or win with his legs when needed. He was up and down in 2020, but a bounce-back performance against Clemson -- including an impressive second half after suffering an injury -- said a lot about his toughness and leadership. He sees the field fairly well inside the Buckeyesâ quarterback-friendly offense but needs to become a full-field reader and prevent his eyes from becoming transfixed on primary targets. He sticks open throws with accuracy and velocity thanks to a sturdy platform and good drive mechanics. Heâs also comfortable throwing into intermediate holes of a zone. A slower operation time and a lack of a twitchy trigger will require him to work with better anticipation and pressure recognition pre- and post-snap. He takes more sacks than coaches will be comfortable with but he also digs his way out of holes and creates explosive plays. Fields operates with a quiet confidence and has experience overcoming adversity. He should continue to improve and become a solid NFL starter within a couple of seasons.
Strengths
  • Toughness/willingness to do what it takes is always on display.
  • Never lost a Big Ten game as a starter.
  • Vast improvement in 2020 with fumbles per snap.
  • Good size with stout lower body to stave off sacks/tackles.
  • Lateral footwork to side-step downhill blitzers.
  • Usually finds a firm, sturdy passing base beneath him.
  • Plenty of zip for long, field-side throws.
  • Attention to drive mechanics generates velocity when needed.
  • Makes quality reads when deciphering high-low concepts.
  • Confident and comfortable throwing into intermediate zone windows.
  • Willing to take a big hit to deliver a pass.
  • Good command and accuracy on boot action to the right.
  • Keeps defenses honest with his legs.
  • Picks up tough yards on the ground when team needs it.
Weaknesses
  • Needs to improve pocket mobility for clean launch points.
  • Below-average feel for edge pressure, running himself into pressure points.
  • Field vision is average in face of the blitz.
  • Missed open blitz beaters in the middle of the field against Indiana.
  • Gradual operation time prevents expedited release.
  • Needs to release ball earlier on anticipatory throws.
  • Needs to improve eye manipulation as a pro.
  • Stagnant eyes invite coverage to the passing party.
  • Forces receivers to slow for deep throws.
  • Pet spin move as runner got him clocked against Clemson.
 

tardigrade

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I mean......come on now. Fixing a QB is far from an easy thing. If it was then every team would have a legit starting QB with some having legit ones as backups. This is the NFL. You either got it or you don't.
You mean like r pace trading up for fields?
 

remydat

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run and shoot said:


I'm watching the vid now. @0:21 the backer is on Herbert in the flat. And then as usual, #70 Jones is getting beat.
I'm going to review the other plays. Also please answer the question about the proper way to count down setting up in a non collapsing pocket.





Yeah he gets it to Hebert if the pocket is not collapsing. You dodged that aspect. Please watch @0:21 again and analyze
the collapsing.



The OL is a part of this discussion on JF's develop. If the pocket is collapsing, then it's a valid question. If u don't know the answer to the proper way to count down setting up in a non collapsing pocket......fine. Just say it.

In LINK #1 You bring up time in the pocket RIGHT? here it is......

And I quote ......"Mills is 2nd in the NFL with 2.42 time to throw. Lawrence is 3rd with 2.46. Highly mobile Kyler Murray is 4th with 2.51. Justin Fields is last in NFL with 3.40."

You bring up time again in LINK #1 ............"Time to throw dropping below 3 seconds to around 2.75."



So, NO 'pocket count' not "irrelevant". And stop using "irrelevant" as a way to dodge a football question. Stop always worrying about being wrong. Stop always needing to be "right", needing to "argue" and "debate" vs just having a discussion. Heck if I don't know something, I have no problem admitting it. And being open to new info.

Again......If u don't know the answer to the proper way to count down setting up in a non collapsing pocket......fine. Just say it. And I'll explain.

---------

I'm still reviewing the vid. I'll have a partial time stamped analysis soon. BTW....if u could, please use time stamps in the
future. It makes play diagnosis easier.

No didn't dodge. I disagree. He can make that throw to Herbert period. End of story.

No the OL is not part of the discussion. I already said this thread is about what Fields needs to do to improve not the OL or the WR. You can go to other threads if you wish to discuss those aspects of the team.

You either want to discuss what Fields needs to do to develop or your don't. If you don't then nothing left for you and I to discuss.
 

remydat

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@run and shoot

.53 - He has time to throw to Kmet if he didn't spend 3 seconds staring Pettis down the whole time.

1.36 - He has to be able to get that ball to Kmet. This is the NFL. The other guys are paid to stop you. It can't be that any sign of the other team trying to stop him and suddenly he is blameless if the play fails.

1.55 - You can't see then. Guy at top of the screen is open as he runs an in breaking route 2 yards past the LoS. The guy that cuts to sidelines at top of screen is also open.

2.49 - Fields fumbles as he has 3 guys open but waits a second too late to throw the ball. Again 3 guys are open but he takes too long to pull trigger.

3.49 - The play action worked as all 3 LBs freeze and Mooney is open coming across wide open. Play action is designed to hold the LBs so Fields should be looking to Mooney as he is running into the space the LBs are exposing as they don't get any depth. So just a bad read to focus on the guy whose defenders aren't going to be fooled by PA.

4.12 - Kmet blocks and releases and is wide open underneath on 1st down. Take the free 4 yards.

4.30 - It is a blitz so gotta throw hot. Kmet blocks and the WR cuts underneath the block. He is your hot route as he is going to the space the blitzers are vacating and his defender has to go over Kmet and the defender Kmet is blocking. So you throw that quick and he has space to run. Fields is again a half second too late here.

5.15 - Wide open Mooney backside which Fields should know if he read this correctly presnap as Mooney chips and his defender is 10 yards away.

5.23 - Fields drifts right into the pressure as Borom is one on one and defender has outside leverage on him. Instead of moving back to his left Fields keeps drifting right which is what gets him in trouble. If he had moved back left, not only does he help Borom who has more leverage to the inside there are 6 Bears blockers to 3 Giants defenders. I have no idea why Fields would continue to drift right to the one area where the defense has the advantage.

I agree with the other observations on the other plays.
 
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remydat

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Maybe some, but note the fact that the Bears receivers are only getting open on about 35% of plays as per this chart.

If this is the chart I think you mean then that is not what it says. It says Bears WRs are open 38% time. So on a 3 receiver route that would be 1 guy is open and on a 5 WR route about 2 guys.
 
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remydat

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I mean......come on now. Fixing a QB is far from an easy thing. If it was then every team would have a legit starting QB with some having legit ones as backups. This is the NFL. You either got it or you don't.

Yeah no. Some things are easier to fix than others. Getting Fields to take the checkdown that I can see him look at and bypass is easier than getting say 3M to actually find the right WR when he seems not to see it.

I am not saying every QB is easy to fix. I am saying this particular part of this particular QBs game should be easy to fix as it is entirely within Fields ability to fix it.
 
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dabears70

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Yeah no. Some things are easier to fix than others. Getting Fields to take the checkdown that I can see him look at and bypass is easier than getting say 3M to actually find the right WR when he seems not to see it.

I am not saying every QB is easy to fix. I am saying this particular part of this particular QBs game should be easy to fix as it is entirely within Fields ability to fix it.
I'm saying it's not easy to fix most problems QB's have and i'm pretty sure that there's nothing any of us fans that have never been anywhere near anything NFL can come up with that hasn't already been talked about in NFL circles by people that have spent all of their lives around football and the NFL. I mean come on now, it should be common sense.
 

Doubledown

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Ref
What does that have to do with the Bears?

Thanks for the Dilfer link though. Haven’t watched it yet
Ref Fields saying stats don’t matter, Mahomes threw for 240 and Chiefs dominated , Analytics are Important not Everything.
 

Sparks500

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This looks like a team with new management from the GM on down with depleted talent, a new offensive system, a new defensive system, on its 4th game……

patience, grasshopper…..
 

alswank87

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There’s plenty of time to ruin another QB in between Fields and Manning
I’m a little past my prime, but I would take a rookie contract for a few years to be QB until we draft the next manning. I’d be way worse than fields.
 

remydat

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I'm saying it's not easy to fix most problems QB's have and i'm pretty sure that there's nothing any of us fans that have never been anywhere near anything NFL can come up with that hasn't already been talked about in NFL circles by people that have spent all of their lives around football and the NFL. I mean come on now, it should be common sense.

This is an opinion with no data to back up. You say we are fans that have never been anywhere near anything NFL but them you state an opinion that by your logic only real NFL people would know.

So not it is not common sense. It is just your opinion you are passing off as somehow better than someone else's opinion despite never being anywhere near anything NFL.
 

run and shoot

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No didn't dodge. I disagree. He can make that throw to Herbert period. End of story.

No the OL is not part of the discussion. I already said this thread is about what Fields needs to do to improve not the OL or the WR. You can go to other threads if you wish to discuss those aspects of the team.

You either want to discuss what Fields needs to do to develop or your don't. If you don't then nothing left for you and I to discuss.

Here's how OL is involved in Qb development (time to throw). Ultimately, Ya can't have one without the other in a intensely team dependent sport like football. These are your words below from link #1 :


In LINK #1 You bring up time in the pocket RIGHT? here it is......

And I quote ......"Mills is 2nd in the NFL with 2.42 time to throw. Lawrence is 3rd with 2.46. Highly mobile Kyler Murray is 4th with 2.51. Justin Fields is last in NFL with 3.40."

You bring up time again in LINK #1 ............"Time to throw dropping below 3 seconds to around 2.75."
______________________________


Pocket collapsation or Collapsing Pocket ( see analysis in LINK #49)is a real thing that we all need to look at in the coming weeks, as it relates to JF's development
 

remydat

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Here's how OL is involved in Qb development (time to throw). Ultimately, Ya can't have one without the other in a intensely team dependent sport like football. These are your words below from link #1 :


In LINK #1 You bring up time in the pocket RIGHT? here it is......

And I quote ......"Mills is 2nd in the NFL with 2.42 time to throw. Lawrence is 3rd with 2.46. Highly mobile Kyler Murray is 4th with 2.51. Justin Fields is last in NFL with 3.40."

You bring up time again in LINK #1 ............"Time to throw dropping below 3 seconds to around 2.75."
______________________________


Pocket collapsation or Collapsing Pocket ( see analysis in LINK #49)is a real thing that we all need to look at in the coming weeks, as it relates to JF's development

I already responded to post 49 with post 66. So I already pointed out where I disagreed with you and where I agreed.
 

run and shoot

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I already responded to post 49 with post 66. So I already pointed out where I disagreed with you and where I agreed.
I'll re-review and analyze your video time stamps.


However.....you're still not acknowledging the comments below which got this started

Here's how OL is involved in Qb development (time to throw). Ultimately, Ya can't have one without the other in a intensely team dependent sport like football. These are your words below from link #1 :
In LINK #1 You bring up time in the pocket RIGHT? here it is......
And I quote ......"Mills is 2nd in the NFL with 2.42 time to throw. Lawrence is 3rd with 2.46. Highly mobile Kyler Murray is 4th with 2.51. Justin Fields is last in NFL with 3.40."
You bring up time again in LINK #1 ............"Time to throw dropping below 3 seconds to around 2.75."
 

remydat

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I'll re-review and analyze your video time stamps.


However.....you're still not acknowledging the comments below which got this started

Here's how OL is involved in Qb development (time to throw). Ultimately, Ya can't have one without the other in a intensely team dependent sport like football. These are your words below from link #1 :
In LINK #1 You bring up time in the pocket RIGHT? here it is......
And I quote ......"Mills is 2nd in the NFL with 2.42 time to throw. Lawrence is 3rd with 2.46. Highly mobile Kyler Murray is 4th with 2.51. Justin Fields is last in NFL with 3.40."
You bring up time again in LINK #1 ............"Time to throw dropping below 3 seconds to around 2.75."

I have already addressed this. I am critiquing plays where I felt he had time to get the ball to someone I considered own. In post 66 if I agreed with you that the pressure was the reason he could not complete a pass, I did not respond to your point individually. I say I agreed with your other observations.
 
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BaBaBlacksheep

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Ref

Ref Fields saying stats don’t matter, Mahomes threw for 240 and Chiefs dominated , Analytics are Important not Everything.
Fields acted offended when asked why the passing game wasn’t working. It’s not. Anyone that thinks it is working is laughably full of shit.

Don’t talk about stats. They can’t score. That’s all that really matters. (And Mahomes won)
 

dbldrew

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No that's a time stamp for the video. I'm watching the drop back real time and counting the time in the pocket (also from snap to throw). When I played.....we were taught '1-1000, 2-1000, 3-1000' etc, I used those video time stamps here in link #49
Yes its a timestamp of the video and that is more accurate then you counting in your head.
 

dbldrew

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Nah 3M's problem was different IMO. He could not process at all. Processing isnt the issue for Fields IMO. It is taking action after he has processed.

Put another way, 3M didnt seem to know where to go with ball. Fields seems to be saying ok WR2 is the right read but let me wait another sec just to he sure.
this is exactly what his issue is. He is looking at guys getting open and he is not processing what is happening in real time. This is the same thing that Mitch has problems with, the only difference here is that Mitch never got better, and the hope is that Fields can figure it out..
 

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