From Olin......look at this play from Mitch

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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Nagy needs to treat Trubisky more like he is Kirk Cousins.

Pace needs to build an offense around a Kirk Cousins. There are no weaknesses on the Vikings offense, even the OL has been invested in to the point where they are good.

Pace isn’t good enough drafting to do this
 

Pegger

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NFL Teams do not see it that way.

It is rare for a top 10 pick who has played even below average football not to start games in year 4. You need to absolutely hot garbage for your entire career as a top 10 pick not to get starts in year 4.
I agree that many NFL teams don't look at it that way, but then again many of those teams are stuck in a loop of poor performance from certain positions.

I can't think of a QB who after not looking like a franchise guy in 3 years turned the corner for that same franchise. I would argue with myself that Mitch looked like there something there in 2018, but much like Marcus Mariota looked after year 2 when things regressed it's time to cut bait.

As an overarching theme I wish NFL teams were more patient with their coaches and less patient on their high draft picks. Two things are critical in my opinion: culture and talent. Culture is largely provided by the coach, so you want some consistency there. Talent is mainly on the players and when it's not there teams should move on.
 

mattb78

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You have to look at Mitch starting next year as a replacement value option.

His salary is 3 million.

So the question isn't is Mitch the best option next season. The question is if Mitch plus 10-17 million extra in salary towards free agents is better than the next option.
 

mattb78

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As an overarching theme I wish NFL teams were more patient with their coaches and less patient on their high draft picks.

I think you are dead wrong on coaches. What you are looking for in a coach is special talent. As soon as you realize you don't have that, you move on. Players have cap hits.. coaches don't. You can't just change personnel in the offseason and not incur future penalty.

The NFL and even college emphasizes this in coaching. Show me something special or we will show you the door.

And its a good strategy. Sticking with an average coach gets you nowhere. Just ask the Bengals. You keep hiring and firing until you find an above average talent.
 

HearshotKDS

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He's showing that Trubisky is observed favoring his hip and not throwing with his body. He also kinda walks funny after the throw. The GIF is strictly about the injury and those doubting that it existed (where have you been, the talk of town is that it was a fake injury...)

Ok that makes sense given the caption. He's definitely not using his hips in the throw and has a bit of a limp for a second. Unfortunately, Mitch has a history of not throwing with his hips, at least with good technique, but there's been enough tape put out that it shouldn't be a question of *if* he hurt his hip in the game. Maybe question the severity, but not if it actually happened.
 

Sparks500

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just because Mitch is less bad at times, it doesn’t mean he’s good.
 

MontanaXXIII

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I agree that many NFL teams don't look at it that way, but then again many of those teams are stuck in a loop of poor performance from certain positions.

I can't think of a QB who after not looking like a franchise guy in 3 years turned the corner for that same franchise. I would argue with myself that Mitch looked like there something there in 2018, but much like Marcus Mariota looked after year 2 when things regressed it's time to cut bait.

As an overarching theme I wish NFL teams were more patient with their coaches and less patient on their high draft picks. Two things are critical in my opinion: culture and talent. Culture is largely provided by the coach, so you want some consistency there. Talent is mainly on the players and when it's not there teams should move on.

That's exactly the opposite of how it should work.

Coaches never improve. Never. You either have it or you don't. If you can't design good game plans, call good plays, or have a team prepared, you are never going to have that ability.

Players, on the other hand, improve later in their careers all the time. All the fucking time. Sometimes it just takes too long a wait. Look at Rich Gannon, for example.
 

HearshotKDS

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Coaches never improve. Never. You either have it or you don't. If you can't design good game plans, call good plays, or have a team prepared, you are never going to have that ability.

Exactly, my favorite example of this is Bill Belichick who was 36-44 with the Cleveland Browns, and then went on to have a lackluster/forgettable career with some Boston based team.
 

Willis1524

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Exactly, my favorite example of this is Bill Belichick who was 36-44 with the Cleveland Browns, and then went on to have a lackluster/forgettable career with some Boston based team.
Maybe he meant never improve with the same team? Idk. Nagy doesn’t seem to have “it” to me.
 

Pegger

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That's exactly the opposite of how it should work.

Coaches never improve. Never. You either have it or you don't. If you can't design good game plans, call good plays, or have a team prepared, you are never going to have that ability.

Players, on the other hand, improve later in their careers all the time. All the fucking time. Sometimes it just takes too long a wait. Look at Rich Gannon, for example.
Should work? If you exclude QB the average career of an NFL player is less than 3 years. Weather it's injury or cheaper alternatives teams move on quickly when a player is not achieving a certain level of performance. It's not like there's an NFL coaches draft that happens every year. All players get replaced and it typically happens within 3-4 years.

Rich Gannon was okay. In Oakland he was in a very short pass heavy offense with some pretty decent players )Jerry Rice and Tim Brown) that catered to his strengths. Overall his career was very 'meh'. In 17 seasons he started 132 games. If you average that out it's as if he played just under 8 games a season. IMHO he's the ultimate backup QB turned starter. Granted he was only a starting QB for ~8 seasons AND to my point it's not like he was great for the team that drafted him (Vikings). His career really didn't do much until he was on his 4th team (Raiders), so it's not like his individual talent rewarded the team that drafted him. Heck, you can argue the Vikings wasted a roster spot for 6 seasons.

What I'm really getting at is culture vs. talent. The culture is created by the coach. Back to Belichick, He built the culture. Players come and go, but the coach is responsible for that piece. If you look at your team and don't like to culture, you fire the coach, not a player.

To your comments on player vs. coach, we should just agree to disagree. IMHO a good coach will get you way farther than good players. You can win a championship with a less talented roster if you have good coach, whereas often the most talented team rarely wins the Superbowl. Let's just take the double-doink Eagles/Bears game from last year. Chicago had more talent, but it didn't end up being a material difference.
 
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Chris Sojka

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I agree that many NFL teams don't look at it that way, but then again many of those teams are stuck in a loop of poor performance from certain positions.

I can't think of a QB who after not looking like a franchise guy in 3 years turned the corner for that same franchise. I would argue with myself that Mitch looked like there something there in 2018, but much like Marcus Mariota looked after year 2 when things regressed it's time to cut bait.

As an overarching theme I wish NFL teams were more patient with their coaches and less patient on their high draft picks. Two things are critical in my opinion: culture and talent. Culture is largely provided by the coach, so you want some consistency there. Talent is mainly on the players and when it's not there teams should move on.
Pegger... the reason the patriots are great, is because they dont switch QBs they switch schemes.

Some games they are a power run team. Some games they are running 2 TE sets. Some games they throw from the shotgun 40 times. Some games they lean on screens and PA passing.

The thing about Nagy is.... everyone knows whats coming next week. The scheme will be the same and no adjustments will be made. The offense will score a head scratching 17 points.

Its not the QBs. It's not that the coaches are bad. Every generation you only have a few genuis minds as HCs, and a few superstar QBs, having 1 of those gets you playoff appearances. See Andy Reid, John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin and Belichik. Elite QBs, Brady, Rogers, Rivers, Ryan, Roethlisberger and Mahommes.

If you put them together you get superbowls and deep playoff runs.

These coaches all win regardless. Because they scheme to fit the team. These QBs win regardless because their talent is above the rest.

Chicago has a young QB with possibly the most stubborn playcaller in the NFL. No QB will win with a stubborn playcaller.
 

TezMaKai

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Did he show that? 25% of his TD production came in one game vs the worst pass d in the league. We’ve seen for a stretch that dates back to last season that unless he gets set up with great field position, he’s damn near incapable of driving a team down the field for a TD

You can thank Nagy's playcalling. Ever notice when the Bears are running the hurry up offense (effectively removing the gimmicky bullshit) that Trubisky thrives?

See the last drive of the PLAYOFF game last year and multiple games at the end of the first half this year.

Trubisky is handcuffed by Nagys playcalling. He thrives when he gets to be a quarterback instead of whatever 3rd and 1 read option bullshit Nagy is trying to make him into.
 

TezMaKai

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Cant really agree, Windy. The only way you can possibly have success with Mitch is to go the John Fox route: run, run, and run some more. Take the game out of his hands. But who wants to keep a QB like that??

Pretty idiotic assessment when you compare his success in John Fox's offense to the very next year 2018.
 

msadows

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The only QBs that do not make it to the end of their rookie deals are the epic busts.

The Bortles busts play out there rookie contracts.

I mentioned this weeks ago.

Like it or not, even if fans are done with him, more than likely the bears wont be. He's going to be here next year, and more than likely start. Only the REAL shit qb's dont get 4 years. Even Winston is getting a chance to shit the bed this year.
 

KittiesKorner

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nobody gives a fuck what you mentioned weeks ago. not even your whore mother
 

Chicago Staleys

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The offensive production in 2018 was due to he defense lead leading turnovers. That’s why they were top 10 in points scored but in the 20’s in total offense.

The defense is not producing turnovers this year and Nagy’s offense is getting exposed.
 

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