Give me the numbers you think other QB's would have put up here last year.

[modo]

Read some of MS posts. He is suggestimg teams were geared towards stoping Trubs. More likely they simply understood they didnt need an extra LB to stop the run.

Teams play nickel more than 50% of the time against most opponents not just Bears. QBs have to throw into nickel a ton. Case in point the Packers base D against everyone is nickel not just Bears. Part of reason why they suck against the run.

And again Trubs is partly responsible for not checking into runs as often times he has an option to run or pass. So the mental midget is not absolved is the point.

And the fact they could not run when they should have cost the Bears the game twice against the Packers.

While Trubisky had some problems with reading defenses, the times the Bears did run in running situations was not effective. So It is hardly to blame on Trubisky. Also, I posted stats on the defenses that the Bears runners faced.....Cohen ran into passing defenses over 80% of the time and managed to average 3.3 yards.....it seems like they put him in good running situations but he could not succeed...Montgomery's runs were just over 51% into passing defenses. Most of the runs were Montgomery's.

Contrast that with the Texans for example, where Hyde could run into 43% passing fronts and Johnson 65%........Well under what the Bears faced......

 

[remydat]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-defensive-personnel-analysis

Just to put things in perspective. The trend toward more DBs is continuing. Teams played Nickel (60.5%) & Dime (13.5%) a combined 74% of the time.

So this whole "woe is me, Trubs had to throw into Nickel & Dime," is just bullshit. Every QB has to throw into Nickel and Dime. 2018 was the first year where teams used base defenses less than 25% of the time. The numbers aren't out for 2019 but that trend has likely continued with teams like the Pack who play nickel or dime almost exclusively.

So yes, the run game sucking obviously hurt Trubs but let's stop pretending that if we run more effectively suddenly teams will stop playing a ton of Nickel & Dime. It may drop some but the reality is Trubs is still going to have to learn how to beat nickel and dime defenses to be successful in the NFL regardless of the run game.

 

[modo]

No TE and no line doesn't excuse Mitch who was just not playing well most of the season but they are clearly mitigating and allowed Ds to play the way they did. That we couldn't take advantage of nickel with a TE to move backers was devastating to this O.

we all know Trubisky needs to get better. But somehow claiming the bad oline and running game really shouldn't have affected him and he should have doing well despite it, is just football ignorant.

 

[modo]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-defensive-personnel-analysis

Just to put things in perspective. The trend toward more DBs is continuing. Teams played Nickel (60.5%) & Dime (13.5%) a combined 74% of the time.

So this whole "woe is me, Trubs had to throw into Nickel & Dime," is just bullshit. Every QB has to throw into Nickel and Dime. 2018 was the first year where teams used base defenses less than 25% of the time. The numbers aren't out for 2019 but that trend has likely continued with teams like the Pack who play nickel or dime almost exclusively.

So yes, the run game sucking obviously hurt Trubs but let's stop pretending that if we run more effectively suddenly teams will stop playing a ton of Nickel & Dime. It may drop some but the reality is Trubs is still going to have to learn how to beat nickel and dime defenses to be successful in the NFL regardless of the run game.

Remy, you aren't really grasping this....yes QBs have to throw into passing defenses. No one is saying that. We are pointing out that the Bears gave little run support to Trubisky, but when they did Trubisky was actually pretty decent.

Those two assertions I made are indisputable.

 

[remydat]

Remy, you aren't really grasping this....yes QBs have to throw into passing defenses. No one is saying that. We are pointing out that the Bears gave little run support to Trubisky, but when they did Trubisky was actually pretty decent.

Those two assertions I made are indisputable.

And I am saying that doesn't mean Trubs is a good QB which is what people are really getting at.

We are all aware a better run game improves Trubs and the teams fortunes some.

We are saying a better run game doesnt mean Trubs will now read defenses better and be more accurate.

If Trubs is ultimately Bortles all that a good run game does is cause us to make a dumb decision to extend him when in reality he isnt that good a QB.

What we need from Trubs to ascertain if he is actually good is better production when he is kept clean, better production when he is pressured and better production when facing nickel and dime defenses.

When you look at his ratings on the first two he is worse than most of his piers. That is the problem. Particularly when the pocket is clean he still ranks 24th out of 27.

I would be more sympathetic here if Trubs was playing lights out when he has time and terrible when pressured ala say Goff. The reality is he is playing below his peers in both categories.

 

[modo]

And I am saying that doesn't mean Trubs is a good QB which is what people are really getting at.

We are all aware a better run game improves Trubs and the teams fortunes some.

We are saying a better run game doesnt mean Trubs will now read defenses better and be more accurate.

If Trubs is ultimately Bortles all that a good run game does is cause us to make a dumb decision to extend him when in reality he isnt that good a QB.

What we need from Trubs to ascertain if he is actually good is better production when hw is kept clean, better production when he is pressured and better production when facing nickel and dime defenses.

When you look at his ratings on the first two he is worse than mostof his piers. That is the problem. Particularly when the pocket is clean he still ranks 24th out of 27.

I would be more sympathetic here if Trubs was playing lights out when he has time ans terrible when pressured ala say Goff. The reality is he is playing below his peers in both categories.

I never said having a run game will make Trubisky read defenses better. I would advise you to take that up with whomever claimed that.

 

[remydat]

I never said having a run game will make Trubisky read defenses better. I would advise you to take that up with whomever claimed that.

I did not say you did. I am simply explaining why people dont care all that much about the excuses when we can see he is severely deficient.

I mean if a Jag fan said Blake Bortles played better when Fournette had a decent game do you think Jags fans would give a shit given all his obvious problems?

 

[modo]

I did not say you did. I am simply explaining why people dont care all that much about the excuses when we can see he is severely deficient.

I mean if a Jag fan said Blake Bortles played better when Fournette had a decent game do you think Jags fans would give a shit given all his obvious problems?

no one here claimed that Trubisky doesn’t need to be better as a QB. We’ve seen what his ceiling could be and I think we’d like to get a truer picture of him with a competent oline and running game.

 

[remydat]

no one here claimed that Trubisky doesn’t need to be better as a QB. We’ve seen what his ceiling could be and I think we’d like to get a truer picture of him with a competent oline and running game.

I think the point is the truer picture of him has nothing to do with the OL and run game.

It has to do with him fixing his deficiencies. He needs to read defenses and be more consistent regardless of what happens with the OL and run game.

That is what I will be looking for this year. If he is able to do that then you would be able see it even if the run game or OL isnt completely fixed.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

Is it more difficult to throw against an 8 man box or a 6 man box.

IDK if you'll know the answer because your football IQ is pretty lacking, kinda like WCBF. Shit, you might be his alt tbqh.

The most laughable post I've seen in my short time here is when WCBF tried to convince us all that we couldnt run the ball because of Mitch.

I’m a little worried about you. You seem to think about me a lot when you’re drunk. You good there buddy? Has the deep breathing helped you at all?

 

[modo]

I think the point is the truer picture of him has nothing to do with the OL and run game.

It has to do with him fixing his deficiencies. He needs to read defenses and be more consistent regardless of what happens with the OL and run game.

That is what I will be looking for this year. If he is able to do that then you would be able see it even if the run game or OL isnt completely fixed.

It would be nice for Trubisky to over come one of the leagues worst time to throw and run games...I agree

He does need to get better at reading defense. I usually qualify most of my prefaces with this.

If the Bears can't put him in at least the minimally acceptable place to succeed, the entire staff will need to move on.

 

[remydat]

It would be nice for Trubisky to over come one of the leagues worst time to throw and run games...I agree

He does need to get better at reading defense. I usually qualify most of my prefaces with this.

If the Bears can't put him in at least the minimally acceptable place to succeed, the entire staff will need to move on.

His QB rating is actually worse when he has time 79.6 vs when he doesn't 86.5. He also has a 69.3% CP when he throws it under 2.5 seconds and only 55.9% over 2.5 seconds.

So I think the time to throw is more a function of whether his 1st read is open or how quickly he progresses through reads.

He doesn't need more time. He needs to make faster reads. For a mobile QB his stats with time to throw are terrible. If he were killing it when he had time I would be more inclined to blame the OL. He isnt.

The same trend existed last year. He is actually better when he has less time to think.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

Nickel and dime defenses can have run-stopping designs to them. A pinch or blitz can easily be called from nickel and dime with masked coverage

^What I said.

actually teams were disguising plays.

which is what I said.

Teams were not playing the Bears against the run. You can watch the games and if you have a basic understanding of football you can see teams put an extra DB in quite a bit because the Bears simply could not run the ball.

I did watch the games and absolutely they had an extra DB out there more often and absolutely the Bears could not run into it effectively BUT Mitch also could not read the zones and hit open spots. If he had, then the running game would have been looser. You are myopic when it comes to the offense for some reason. @botfly10 was literally correct in his original statements. You just have to weirdly point out that Mitch does better with a running game (no duh) as if Mitch is blameless when he cannot pick apart a basic pass D.

The gutted the entire staff immediately responsible for the run game.

Yes they did. Mitch costs less, plain and simple. No need to cut a QB on rookie deal no matter how bad and every reason to cut staff that fails at basic jobs.

it really isn’t hard to put 2 and 2 together on this.

It's not. Yet it seems like you only see one side of the equation. Later in remarks to remy, you clarified that you do NOT let Mitch off the hook and that's good, but you sure do white-knight for him as hard as MS or anyone when you hop up and down about the run game as if that is the magic factor that will make Mitch a serviceable starter.

We are pointing out that the Bears gave little run support to Trubisky, but when they did Trubisky was actually pretty decent.

And as I have been pointing out ad nauseum to you, the opposing D is more of a factor to when he plays decent as to run support - which is directly correlated to strength of opposing defense!

 

[Calabis]

Not gonna read the rest of the thread, but heres by 4am drunk post:

This team had one of the worst olines in football, no te's, 1 WR, and no run game. Ohh, and an OC who is clueless as far as scheming.

I doubt anyone besides the elites would have succeeded. And yes, mahomes and watson are part of the "elites" group for those bitchboys who cry about us not drafting them.

Hard to have a succesful qb when every team plays nickel/dime against you because you cant run the ball against a 4 man front.

Mitch is not good enough. Dalton is not good enough. Keenum is not good enough. Insert any average qb, they aren't good enough.

This offense is god awful, and mitch is just a scapegoat. Yes, he's not very good, but the unit around him is just as bad or not worse. Like I've said before, you can list at least 5 starters on this unit worse than him this past year. That is not okay.

Not gonna read the rest of the thread, but heres by 4am drunk post:

This team had one of the worst olines in football, no te's, 1 WR, and no run game. Ohh, and an OC who is clueless as far as scheming.

I doubt anyone besides the elites would have succeeded. And yes, mahomes and watson are part of the "elites" group for those bitchboys who cry about us not drafting them.

Hard to have a succesful qb when every team plays nickel/dime against you because you cant run the ball against a 4 man front.

Mitch is not good enough. Dalton is not good enough. Keenum is not good enough. Insert any average qb, they aren't good enough.

This offense is god awful, and mitch is just a scapegoat. Yes, he's not very good, but the unit around him is just as bad or not worse. Like I've said before, you can list at least 5 starters on this unit worse than him this past year. That is not okay.

 

[Jack Lantern]

His QB rating is actually worse when he has time 79.6 vs when he doesn't 86.5. He also has a 69.3% CP when he throws it under 2.5 seconds and only 55.9% over 2.5 seconds.

So I think the time to throw is more a function of whether his 1st read is open or how quickly he progresses through reads.

He doesn't need more time. He needs to make faster reads. For a mobile QB his stats with time to throw are terrible. If he were killing it when he had time I would be more inclined to blame the OL. He isnt.

The same trend existed last year. He is actually better when he has less time to think.

 

[Calabis]

I'm sure we can agree...there're other Qb's out there who don't have substandard units around them, yet they find a way to lift the "O". So should we not hold our Qb to somewhat of the same standard? At what point does lifting those around one
come into the conversation?

Again who are these QBs?

Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson, Brees?

I like how people act like there are so many of these guys just sitting around. 100 years and those mentioned above are the only ones of their kind.

So quick answer, no there are not a lot of QBs who lift there team and make everyone around better.

 

[Jack Lantern]

Again who are these QBs?

Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson, Brees?

I like how people act like there are so many of these guys just sitting around. 100 years and those mentioned above are the only ones of their kind.

So quick answer, no there are not a lot of QBs who lift there team and make everyone around better.

With the window still open with this defense.....any of the 2nd tier free agent guys this year would have won 10 games with the Bears last year. Once you get in the playoffs anything can happen in a one and done.

This defense doesn't need any of those 5, they are that good. Just a game manager who can make an open throw on occasion when the big play is there. Mitch missed so many open passes downfield last year for big plays. Those plays shift momentum and opens up coverage.

 

[Calabis]

With the window still open with this defense.....any of the 2nd tier free agent guys this year would have won 10 games with the Bears last year. Once you get in the playoffs anything can happen in a one and done.

This defense doesn't need any of those 5, they are that good. Just a game manager who can make an open throw on occasion when the big play is there. Mitch missed so many open passes downfield last year for big plays. Those plays shift momentum and opens up coverage.

Who are these 2nd tier guys? I'm curious