Hate to be a buzz kill, but 2022 not gonna look any brighter according to Cap Friendly!

[Savard18]

im checking out this Red wing and Buffalo game and watching Suter have a pretty good game, and remember him with the hawks from last season and wonder why the hawks never re signed him? So I goto Chicago Blackhawks Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps and check out the cap and what the details on the hawks are. For the past month I've quietly viewed this forum and chuckled at some of the suggestions ( call up Riechel ,call up this guy, trade that guy. ) I knew Bowman did some bad moves but, geez I can see why we have 4 entry level guys in the forwards and a defence that is well lol you guys get the picture. BUT ! then I see Seth Jones doesn't even kick in 9.5 till next year and their already up against the cap! I get they won't be next year , you lose Strome and MAF and Guss and hopefully De Haan. But really does make you wonder what he was thinking? Sign Tyler Johnson for 5 mill nmc and longer term to boot and let Suter go when you could have saved 1.5 m.

As for guys wanting to bring up Nylander and Reichel. why? so they can play on the 3rd line , leave down there till next year unless you get rid of Kubilik which I can't see you getting rid of proven 25-30 goal scorer.

But I also see why we have the Khaira, Carpenters and Bjorgy. he had no choice for 1mill or less each. But geez might aswell promoted from Rockford instead.

Personally I don't want to see Capt Serious or Kane traded, I know it eats 10 mill per and Capt has had better days, but still I'd rather see him finish a Hawk! and Kane is a generational player, fun to watch even if the games are blah and it will look at lot worse without him. Blowing it up seeing these two leave not in my interest, see Jordan and the Bulls, their still waiting for a decent team since what ? going on from 1996?

 

[hawkinmontreal]

im checking out this Red wing and Buffalo game and watching Suter have a pretty good game, and remember him with the hawks from last season and wonder why the hawks never re signed him? So I goto Chicago Blackhawks Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps and check out the cap and what the details on the hawks are. For the past month I've quietly viewed this forum and chuckled at some of the suggestions ( call up Riechel ,call up this guy, trade that guy. ) I knew Bowman did some bad moves but, geez I can see why we have 4 entry level guys in the forwards and a defence that is well lol you guys get the picture. BUT ! then I see Seth Jones doesn't even kick in 9.5 till next year and their already up against the cap! I get they won't be next year , you lose Strome and MAF and Guss and hopefully De Haan. But really does make you wonder what he was thinking? Sign Tyler Johnson for 5 mill nmc and longer term to boot and let Suter go when you could have saved 1.5 m.

As for guys wanting to bring up Nylander and Reichel. why? so they can play on the 3rd line , leave down there till next year unless you get rid of Kubilik which I can't see you getting rid of proven 25-30 goal scorer.

But I also see why we have the Khaira, Carpenters and Bjorgy. he had no choice for 1mill or less each. But geez might aswell promoted from Rockford instead.

Personally I don't want to see Capt Serious or Kane traded, I know it eats 10 mill per and Capt has had better days, but still I'd rather see him finish a Hawk! and Kane is a generational player, fun to watch even if the games are blah and it will look at lot worse without him. Blowing it up seeing these two leave not in my interest, see Jordan and the Bulls, their still waiting for a decent team since what ? going on from 1996?

Yes the cap situation could be messy next season, hence the reason why for years majority wanted Bowman out, he was a terrible GM and all his poor signings and clauses attached to those contracts will hinder the Hawks for years to come. However the damage is done and to clean up the mess the organization will have to make the decision most Hawks fans have been dreading for years. Toews and Kane will always be symbolic with this team, generational players, Hall of Famers and Chicago Blackhawks players inside and out for life. Kane is and has been for the last couple of years the only player that will bring back talent and draft picks for the future, shedding 21 million for Toews and Kane will be huge, add in DeHaan, MAF, Strome, Gus and possibly a few others will allow a new GM to restart the rebuild and hopefully do it properly. The Hawks need to shed the deadweight. I like many don’t want to see the cornerstones of this team leave and play somewhere else but at the same time, I don’t want to wait another 10 years to see a somewhat competitive team play. The team as of right now, is borderline wildcard, nowhere near being in the top echelon of the league, might as well look forward to the future and start making the difficult decisions that we all knew were going to arrive one day.

 

[Ares]

Hawks are gonna be trash for a while now, I recommend checking back in around 2040 when Kane's children are coming of age.

And to be clear, I meant coming of age for the NHL draft.... not w/e creepy shit the Hawks normally allow.

 

[JimAKABlkhwks918]

Bowman's damage is done. The team can't be rebuilt entirely from free agency, and the cupboard is bare; there isn't really much in Rockford. Toews will not bring back very much at this point in his career. He's an excellent faceoff man, but the rest of his game is not where it once was. Out of respect, I'd let him decide his future. The only players that would fetch what is needed, that is, prospects and draft picks are Kane and Debrincat.

All this trading talk is the old saying: rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Someone mentioned the Bulls....they finally made substantial change at the top, and look at them now. That's what the Hawks need to do first and foremost. They need to find a good hockey mind that's not named Bowman to help them rebuild GM, scouting, farm team, coaching staff, etc., and let the people in those positions develop a plan and stick to it despite what us meatball fans say.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I dont expect Toews to bounce back until late in year.

 

[hawkinmontreal]

Bowman's damage is done. The team can't be rebuilt entirely from free agency, and the cupboard is bare; there isn't really much in Rockford. Toews will not bring back very much at this point in his career. He's an excellent faceoff man, but the rest of his game is not where it once was. Out of respect, I'd let him decide his future. The only players that would fetch what is needed, that is, prospects and draft picks are Kane and Debrincat.

All this trading talk is the old saying: rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Someone mentioned the Bulls....they finally made substantial change at the top, and look at them now. That's what the Hawks need to do first and foremost. They need to find a good hockey mind that's not named Bowman to help them rebuild GM, scouting, farm team, coaching staff, etc., and let the people in those positions develop a plan and stick to it despite what us meatball fans say.

Dcat is the future leader of this team, he is not going anywhere. Once Kane and Toews are gone he will bare the C on his jersey.
I mentioned the same, the team will not undergo any construction until a new GM and president of hockey operations are brought in.

 

[Granada]

im checking out this Red wing and Buffalo game and watching Suter have a pretty good game, and remember him with the hawks from last season and wonder why the hawks never re signed him? So I goto Chicago Blackhawks Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps and check out the cap and what the details on the hawks are. For the past month I've quietly viewed this forum and chuckled at some of the suggestions ( call up Riechel ,call up this guy, trade that guy. ) I knew Bowman did some bad moves but, geez I can see why we have 4 entry level guys in the forwards and a defence that is well lol you guys get the picture. BUT ! then I see Seth Jones doesn't even kick in 9.5 till next year and their already up against the cap! I get they won't be next year , you lose Strome and MAF and Guss and hopefully De Haan. But really does make you wonder what he was thinking? Sign Tyler Johnson for 5 mill nmc and longer term to boot and let Suter go when you could have saved 1.5 m.

As for guys wanting to bring up Nylander and Reichel. why? so they can play on the 3rd line , leave down there till next year unless you get rid of Kubilik which I can't see you getting rid of proven 25-30 goal scorer.

But I also see why we have the Khaira, Carpenters and Bjorgy. he had no choice for 1mill or less each. But geez might aswell promoted from Rockford instead.

Personally I don't want to see Capt Serious or Kane traded, I know it eats 10 mill per and Capt has had better days, but still I'd rather see him finish a Hawk! and Kane is a generational player, fun to watch even if the games are blah and it will look at lot worse without him. Blowing it up seeing these two leave not in my interest, see Jordan and the Bulls, their still waiting for a decent team since what ? going on from 1996?

A lot to digest here, but if we're talking about Suter specifically, you may as well go back to Capfriendly and see how much Detroit signed him for, and you will realize why the Hawks passed and why that was the right move. Kurashev was retained instead as a poor-man's version of Suter. Sure, it would be nice to have Suter here, but what he wanted was outrageous and unworkable.

Jones was necessary and you have to pay for a top2 D-man in this league. There are times when he irritates me on the defensive side of the puck, but he's improved since the beginning of the year; and he will be a cornerstone in this franchise for a very long time. This was a good signing and necessary, since Bowman never adequately addressed the position via draft and since Keith's departure.

Johnson is still a question mark. He hasn't been good since arriving here, but I am hoping that he improves eventually. I do feel like this can still end up being a good signing, he's a depth center and we haven't seen what he can do yet without Colliton.

Who wants Nylander up?

One way or another, Toews will be gone. I'm a fan of Toews, don't get me wrong, but he isn't a top-six center anymore. If he can't be moved beforehand, he will finish out his contract but will not be re-signed; or will be moved at the deadline to a contender in his last year. Kane on the other hand, I really don't know what will happen there. If he agrees to a massive pay cut and assuming the Hawks are competitive enough that he'll want to stay, then he may be retained, but if not, he'll be moved because there will still be a market for him.

 

[KBIB]

I’m more in the trade everyone and start over camp.

Trade Dach, Cat, Kane, get as much liquid assets that you can and start fresh. The only people I would keep are Jones, because you aren’t finding a 1D at the cheap price they paid, and Lank who has what it takes to be a number one.

You ask for the moon on Cat, but if somebody offers you said moon you gotta take it and not look back, not kid yourself that dumb moves put you in a position to make the playoffs, not pull another “retool “ and scorch this fucking earth.

You have two deep drafts ahead of you the next two years where the first three rounds in both can net you some good players to build around. They should be doing everything in their power to accumulate as much draft capital possible, tanking, and moving up.

If you are building around Dach, then you have to get this guy shooters. If Cat can get you a first or two and an elite prospect from a desperate team, you have to pull the trigger. Kane can get you a haul, you have to start asking him what teams he’s willing to go to.

 

[Fred Garvin]

A market for Toews? I don't know....unless a team wants a guy who is good at faceoffs and nothing else. Toews doesn't even have a goal...not one this year....and that's sad. It's pretty bad when it's a serious concern whether he'll get one this year. What value do u place on an offensive player who has ZERO offense? Thanks for the stanley cups Jonathan...but there a comes a time to move on.

 

[LordKOTL]

Dcat is the future leader of this team, he is not going anywhere. Once Kane and Toews are gone he will bare the C on his jersey.
I mentioned the same, the team will not undergo any construction until a new GM and president of hockey operations are brought in.

...and subsequently a coach--preferably one with a good hockey mind that can see what we got, what we realistically can fill in to build a team with, and get buy-in. I think that has to happen in the offseason.

I’m more in the trade everyone and start over camp.

Trade Dach, Cat, Kane, get as much liquid assets that you can and start fresh. The only people I would keep are Jones, because you aren’t finding a 1D at the cheap price they paid, and Lank who has what it takes to be a number one.

You ask for the moon on Cat, but if somebody offers you said moon you gotta take it and not look back, not kid yourself that dumb moves put you in a position to make the playoffs, not pull another “retool “ and scorch this fucking earth.

You have two deep drafts ahead of you the next two years where the first three rounds in both can net you some good players to build around. They should be doing everything in their power to accumulate as much draft capital possible, tanking, and moving up.

If you are building around Dach, then you have to get this guy shooters. If Cat can get you a first or two and an elite prospect from a desperate team, you have to pull the trigger. Kane can get you a haul, you have to start asking him what teams he’s willing to go to.

I disagree paritally.

Dach has not shown that he's got what it takes to be a #1C, or even a #2C. He's got some flashes but we have to expect him to be over 40% at the dot to even be in consideration--especially if he's lined up with guys who aren't that good at wresting the puck away from the opposition. Considering that he's floating around 30%, I think at this point we might have to see if he can make the jump to wing.

While we should keep Jones especially for the pricetag and he's decent at a #1D (and let's be real, we were spoiled with Keith as a #1D), I think if we should be building around someone, it should be Debrincat. He's still young at 23 and as a winger his game is probably the most complete of any FWD we got on the team at this point. Now, if someone offers the 'hawks a king's ransom in futures for Debrincat I think the 'hawks should consider it. But if there was a single player the 'hawks should rebuild around at this point, Debrincat is it.

I'd also keep Hagel. He might not be on the same echelon as Seth Jones or Debincat, but he's dirt cheap for the next couple of years, has the right attitude, and is brining more to the ice than Dach. In a similar vein though, if we're offered a king's ransom, we consider it.

However, I think all considerations should got though a real GM (not an interim one) and a real hockey mind. So, probably not until Davidson is replaced.

So far I'm not too impressed with Lankinen, especially because his numbers are very Lalime-like even in spite of the fact that it's his sophomore year and the 'hawks D kinda sucks. I think it might be too early to jettison him, but I think moving into next year if Fleury doesn't want another bite at the apple, we might want to get a cheap vet along the ilk of Turco/Emery to back him up in case the doesn't get out of his sophomore slump. There should be a contingency plan there especially since we don't have a pipeline with stacked D along the 2010 'hawks level and there's no FWD defensive depth even remotely close to Hossa/Toews/Sharp/Bolland/Kruger (or a combination thereof) that can help keep the chances low. We're going to need at least an above-average netminder moving FWD to offset everything.

As for Kane and Toews, I think they control their own destinies at this point. I don't think Toews leaves 6.9M on the table for next year and retires, but I'm hoping he can work with the club if he wants to leave. Ditto with Kane if he wants to leave.

 

[Ares]

I dont expect Toews to bounce back until late in year.

I think he's done, in Chicago at least.

But if I had my guess, I think he's gonna find out his body is done much like Seab's did.

Toews will slip away into retirement with a flash, much like Hossa did.

"Oh, uh sorry guys, I have this weird skin thing, and uh (I'm done carrying your fucking water)"

Nothing against Hossa, but I think he was done with hockey and used the skin thing as an out from a team that was clearly backsliding.

I honestly think the Hawks depended on Hossa above all to set the example in terms of effort, just effort, and he got tired of having to be that guy.

I think Bowman expected Toews to transition into being a new Hossa, Kane to transition into being an older (less scoring but still very good) Kane, and for them to bring up the next generation of championship players much in the way Sharp/Hossa/Ladd/etc brought them up.

It didn't work.... Toews didn't want to be that guy anymore than Hossa did at the very end.

Maybe the idea was a break for a year would get him physically rejuvenated, and I think it did, but mentally I don't think Toews wants that C on his chest anymore. He'd love to be Patrick Sharp with an A on some other team, scoring a modest number of goals and maybe winning another Cup as a 2C or 3C.

Team needs a clean slate, and so do our loyal players who (hopefully) had nothing to do with the sexual assault bullshit or the coverups.

When they stop resting on the Kane/Toews laurels of 10+ years ago, I'll get interested again.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah, 1000 games in NHL is a huge toll unless you are heavily protected and exempt from some dirty work like Gretsky or Kaner.

1000 games seems to be alot like 30 years old for an NFL running back.

 

[Granada]

...and subsequently a coach--preferably one with a good hockey mind that can see what we got, what we realistically can fill in to build a team with, and get buy-in. I think that has to happen in the offseason.


I disagree paritally.

Dach has not shown that he's got what it takes to be a #1C, or even a #2C. He's got some flashes but we have to expect him to be over 40% at the dot to even be in consideration--especially if he's lined up with guys who aren't that good at wresting the puck away from the opposition. Considering that he's floating around 30%, I think at this point we might have to see if he can make the jump to wing.

While we should keep Jones especially for the pricetag and he's decent at a #1D (and let's be real, we were spoiled with Keith as a #1D), I think if we should be building around someone, it should be Debrincat. He's still young at 23 and as a winger his game is probably the most complete of any FWD we got on the team at this point. Now, if someone offers the 'hawks a king's ransom in futures for Debrincat I think the 'hawks should consider it. But if there was a single player the 'hawks should rebuild around at this point, Debrincat is it.

I'd also keep Hagel. He might not be on the same echelon as Seth Jones or Debincat, but he's dirt cheap for the next couple of years, has the right attitude, and is brining more to the ice than Dach. In a similar vein though, if we're offered a king's ransom, we consider it.

However, I think all considerations should got though a real GM (not an interim one) and a real hockey mind. So, probably not until Davidson is replaced.

So far I'm not too impressed with Lankinen, especially because his numbers are very Lalime-like even in spite of the fact that it's his sophomore year and the 'hawks D kinda sucks. I think it might be too early to jettison him, but I think moving into next year if Fleury doesn't want another bite at the apple, we might want to get a cheap vet along the ilk of Turco/Emery to back him up in case the doesn't get out of his sophomore slump. There should be a contingency plan there especially since we don't have a pipeline with stacked D along the 2010 'hawks level and there's no FWD defensive depth even remotely close to Hossa/Toews/Sharp/Bolland/Kruger (or a combination thereof) that can help keep the chances low. We're going to need at least an above-average netminder moving FWD to offset everything.

As for Kane and Toews, I think they control their own destinies at this point. I don't think Toews leaves 6.9M on the table for next year and retires, but I'm hoping he can work with the club if he wants to leave. Ditto with Kane if he wants to leave.

Yeah, I don't think you would need to completely tear it down. Debrincat, Hagel, Jones and Dach -- these guys are fine and should not be traded. I still have hope for Dach but my patience is wearing thin -- either way, I still think you keep him. Kane: you either trade at him at the deadline this year or next, or you let him finish out his contract and let him walk. Toews: I hate saying this, but no one is going to want even a year of that contract -- you might be able to trade him in his last year at the deadline, since (if I remember right) the cap hit won't count for whoever trades for him and he'll go UFA the next. So if a contender wants him his last year for third line center depth at the deadline his last year, you absolutely make the trade, assuming he doesn't retire by then (which in my opinion is a possibility).

 

[KBIB]

...and subsequently a coach--preferably one with a good hockey mind that can see what we got, what we realistically can fill in to build a team with, and get buy-in. I think that has to happen in the offseason.


I disagree paritally.

Dach has not shown that he's got what it takes to be a #1C, or even a #2C. He's got some flashes but we have to expect him to be over 40% at the dot to even be in consideration--especially if he's lined up with guys who aren't that good at wresting the puck away from the opposition. Considering that he's floating around 30%, I think at this point we might have to see if he can make the jump to wing.

While we should keep Jones especially for the pricetag and he's decent at a #1D (and let's be real, we were spoiled with Keith as a #1D), I think if we should be building around someone, it should be Debrincat. He's still young at 23 and as a winger his game is probably the most complete of any FWD we got on the team at this point. Now, if someone offers the 'hawks a king's ransom in futures for Debrincat I think the 'hawks should consider it. But if there was a single player the 'hawks should rebuild around at this point, Debrincat is it.

I'd also keep Hagel. He might not be on the same echelon as Seth Jones or Debincat, but he's dirt cheap for the next couple of years, has the right attitude, and is brining more to the ice than Dach. In a similar vein though, if we're offered a king's ransom, we consider it.

However, I think all considerations should got though a real GM (not an interim one) and a real hockey mind. So, probably not until Davidson is replaced.

So far I'm not too impressed with Lankinen, especially because his numbers are very Lalime-like even in spite of the fact that it's his sophomore year and the 'hawks D kinda sucks. I think it might be too early to jettison him, but I think moving into next year if Fleury doesn't want another bite at the apple, we might want to get a cheap vet along the ilk of Turco/Emery to back him up in case the doesn't get out of his sophomore slump. There should be a contingency plan there especially since we don't have a pipeline with stacked D along the 2010 'hawks level and there's no FWD defensive depth even remotely close to Hossa/Toews/Sharp/Bolland/Kruger (or a combination thereof) that can help keep the chances low. We're going to need at least an above-average netminder moving FWD to offset everything.

As for Kane and Toews, I think they control their own destinies at this point. I don't think Toews leaves 6.9M on the table for next year and retires, but I'm hoping he can work with the club if he wants to leave. Ditto with Kane if he wants to leave.

I kind of think Cat has the most value among all the Hawks currently. I’d be eyeing up the Oilers and a couple firsts, Broberg, and a cap dump to make it work.

Teams would line up for Cat right now and he’s outplayed his contract. You have to stop the “let’s keep this guy” bullshit and actually rebuild. I like Cat, but if he’s the player who starts this team back to square one you have to think about it.

 

[Granada]

I kind of think Cat has the most value among all the Hawks currently. I’d be eyeing up the Oilers and a couple firsts, Broberg, and a cap dump to make it work.

Teams would line up for Cat right now and he’s outplayed his contract. You have to stop the “let’s keep this guy” bullshit and actually rebuild. I like Cat, but if he’s the player who starts this team back to square one you have to think about it.

Debrincat is great but you wouldn't get all that for him, that's crazy talk.

Also, the kid is only 23 and is already a bonafide NHL player. There is nothing wrong with a sprinkling of veterans on a rebuilding team, the majority of rebuilding teams have them. I mean, if you want to get rid of guys like Murphy, de Haan, McCabe, even Toews and Kane, yeah, go for it -- but trading what is your one and only highly-valuable asset for the future is just completely counterproductive. You already have one decent center piece, and you're going to trade him for picks that you can only hope will end up being like him, who probably won't mature as well or faster than he did when they hit 23.

 

[KBIB]

Debrincat is great but you wouldn't get all that for him, that's crazy talk.

Also, the kid is only 23 and is already a bonafide NHL player. There is nothing wrong with a sprinkling of veterans on a rebuilding team, the majority of rebuilding teams have them. I mean, if you want to get rid of guys like Murphy, de Haan, McCabe, even Toews and Kane, yeah, go for it -- but trading what is your one and only highly-valuable asset for the future is just completely counterproductive. You already have one decent center piece, and you're going to trade him for picks that you can only hope will end up being like him, who probably won't mature as well or faster than he did when they hit 23.

Idk about that.

Jones returned two firsts and a shit prospect and you can say a first line player with a decent cap hit returns something similar. Throw in that Cat is a 40 goal scorer and yes teams would be lining up for him. At 23 he hasn’t even hit his prime.

But again, I’m for a complete over haul and getting rid of everything Blowmans finger prints are on.

 

[Granada]

Idk about that.

Jones returned two firsts and a shit prospect and you can say a first line player with a decent cap hit returns something similar. Throw in that Cat is a 40 goal scorer and yes teams would be lining up for him. At 23 he hasn’t even hit his prime.

But again, I’m for a complete over haul and getting rid of everything Blowmans finger prints are on.

There's no way you're also dumping salary with that though to boot. Also, d-men/centers are a lot hotter commodities than wings.

 

[LordKOTL]

Yeah, I don't think you would need to completely tear it down. Debrincat, Hagel, Jones and Dach -- these guys are fine and should not be traded. I still have hope for Dach but my patience is wearing thin -- either way, I still think you keep him. Kane: you either trade at him at the deadline this year or next, or you let him finish out his contract and let him walk. Toews: I hate saying this, but no one is going to want even a year of that contract -- you might be able to trade him in his last year at the deadline, since (if I remember right) the cap hit won't count for whoever trades for him and he'll go UFA the next. So if a contender wants him his last year for third line center depth at the deadline his last year, you absolutely make the trade, assuming he doesn't retire by then (which in my opinion is a possibility).

I'm not 100% sold on Dach as a rebuilding prospect.

IMHO the only thing that makes Dach worth it to keep around is if he (a) becomes much better than 30% at the dot and thus could be a real, bonafied #1C or #2C (even 45% would be acceptable in that role), or he moves over to the wing and can play wing effectively using the rest of his skillset.

Right now though? He's only a point better than Kubalik who's slumping something fierce.

He may be young, but I don't think he's proven to be a piece we can build around--at least yet. We might have ruined him like Cam Barker. We might not have, but I think if we don't find a decent role for him anywhere in the top-6 we should be prepared to move on.

As for Toews, I think we have to let that one play out. In all fairness to Toews the last goal he scored that was taken away? He did everything right and the linesmen screwed him. I won't hold that against him at this point. I don't think he retires this offseason and leaves almost 7M on the table--especially since he's 33YO and he might not get another deal after he turns UFA. I agree that we might be able to flip him at next year's TDL, but I think we got him this year and next. But I do think if he's willing to waive and someone comes knocking we entertain the deal.

I kind of think Cat has the most value among all the Hawks currently. I’d be eyeing up the Oilers and a couple firsts, Broberg, and a cap dump to make it work.

Teams would line up for Cat right now and he’s outplayed his contract. You have to stop the “let’s keep this guy” bullshit and actually rebuild. I like Cat, but if he’s the player who starts this team back to square one you have to think about it.

El Gato might have the most value, but if we're not getting a king's ransom he'll be worth more to the 'hawks than if we lose him. He *is* only 23. He *is* playing above his paygrade. He *should be* a de facto "A" on the team. He *is* our best player. So, if we're going to tear it all down we better be getting bank for him.

We shouldn't jettison him simply to "tear it down". We should only jettison him if the returning pieces really set us up for a real rebuild--and not in a "pay a mid-tier #1D man a fuckton of money for 8 years" type of move like the departed legume-reckoner did. Proposals can and should be entertained, but the 'hawks should be mindful of the returning value.

 

[Granada]

I'm not 100% sold on Dach as a rebuilding prospect.

IMHO the only thing that makes Dach worth it to keep around is if he (a) becomes much better than 30% at the dot and thus could be a real, bonafied #1C or #2C (even 45% would be acceptable in that role), or he moves over to the wing and can play wing effectively using the rest of his skillset.

Right now though? He's only a point better than Kubalik who's slumping something fierce.

He may be young, but I don't think he's proven to be a piece we can build around--at least yet. We might have ruined him like Cam Barker. We might not have, but I think if we don't find a decent role for him anywhere in the top-6 we should be prepared to move on.

As for Toews, I think we have to let that one play out. In all fairness to Toews the last goal he scored that was taken away? He did everything right and the linesmen screwed him. I won't hold that against him at this point. I don't think he retires this offseason and leaves almost 7M on the table--especially since he's 33YO and he might not get another deal after he turns UFA. I agree that we might be able to flip him at next year's TDL, but I think we got him this year and next. But I do think if he's willing to waive and someone comes knocking we entertain the deal.


El Gato might have the most value, but if we're not getting a king's ransom he'll be worth more to the 'hawks than if we lose him. He *is* only 23. He *is* playing above his paygrade. He *should be* a de facto "A" on the team. He *is* our best player. So, if we're going to tear it all down we better be getting bank for him.

We shouldn't jettison him simply to "tear it down". We should only jettison him if the returning pieces really set us up for a real rebuild--and not in a "pay a mid-tier #1D man a fuckton of money for 8 years" type of move like the departed legume-reckoner did. Proposals can and should be entertained, but the 'hawks should be mindful of the returning value.

Honestly, I think people are way too hung up on Dach's face-off percentage. Yes, I'd like Dach to improve there, but if the guy sucks at face-offs but he's sound positionally as a center in both zones, that's seriously fine and not the end of the world. His faceoff ability alone shouldn't determine whether he's moved to wing.

 

[KBIB]

There's no way you're also dumping salary with that though to boot. Also, d-men/centers are a lot hotter commodities than wings.

I never said you were dumping salary along with trading Cat. I’m saying you are taking a bad contract along with futures to make the cap work since most teams are up against the cap right now.

And there’s no way a 30 goal scorer isn’t a commodity in the NHL. It doesn’t matter what position you play. Cat had a good chance at 50 last year if the schedule was normal.