Hoge: 10 Reasons Justin Fields Is Ready Right Now

[Visionman]

Again with an ad hominen. My feelings have nothing to do with this.

If the expert gives no additional analysis and other experts disagree, then you have to then consider whose analysis/argument is better. Manning disagrees with Brees. Thus, HoF QB means nothing in this conversation. That's my point. I'm done attempting to explain this to you.

I consider those who actually have done it to know what they are talking about a lot more than a talking head. Brees gave his comments during a game telecast. Not exactly time to break it down in that situation. Be realistic. You prefer the guy who backs up your opinion.

To me, it t dry isn’t matter. I want Fields to play when he’s ready. If that was day 1, great. If it’s later, perfectly fine. I’m looking to see a great QB for a decade or more in Chicago. A few games doesn’t really matter.

 

[kalmavet]

I consider those who actually have done it to know what they are talking about a lot more than a talking head. Brees gave his comments during a game telecast. Not exactly time to break it down in that situation. Be realistic. You prefer the guy who backs up your opinion.

To me, it t dry isn’t matter. I want Fields to play when he’s ready. If that was day 1, great. If it’s later, perfectly fine. I’m looking to see a great QB for a decade or more in Chicago. A few games doesn’t really matter.

And Peyton Manning says the only way to learn is to play in actual games. Admit it, you prefer the HoF QB who backs up your opinion. And I noted Brees likely didn't have time in the broadcast so your "be realistic" is just silly. Already addressed that. Regardless, all all we have is what he said there. That pales in comparison to a full argument.

I agree about wanting Fields to play when he's ready and being the qb for ten years+.

I wholly disagree with how you've reached that conclusion in this thread by uncritically accepting one HoF QB, disparaging a beat writer who I think is well respected, and somehow managing to totally dismiss another HoF QB's opinion. If anyone is selectively choosing who to side with, it's you. This is clear from the things you've said here.

 

[Visionman]

And Peyton Manning says the only way to learn is to play in actual games. Admit it, you prefer the HoF QB who backs up your opinion. And I noted Brees likely didn't have time in the broadcast so your "be realistic" is just silly. Already addressed that. Regardless, all all we have is what he said there. That pales in comparison to a full argument.

I agree about wanting Fields to play when he's ready and being the qb for ten years+.

I wholly disagree with how you've reached that conclusion in this thread by uncritically accepting one HoF QB, disparaging a beat writer who I think is well respected, and somehow managing to totally dismiss another HoF QB's opinion. If anyone is selectively choosing who to side with, it's you. This is clear from the things you've said here.

You do learn by playing actual games…when you are ready to maximize that learning process. Being thrown in too early greatly reduces those odds.

 

[kalmavet]

You do learn by playing actual games…when you are ready to maximize that learning process. Being thrown in too early greatly reduces those odds.

There it is! Youve made an actual claim that can be discussed. We could cite examples both directions from here and actually move on from things said by HoF QBs (unless they give us a real analysis). Of course the issue I've had this whole time is you led with Brees who didn't offer anything beyond "veteran" platitudes.

So are there specific points in Hoge's article that you disagree with? Are you seeing things from the preseason games and training camp reports (and brief clips) that make you think Fields is unprepared to the point of it hurting his development? Or is there an expert analysis with real depth that leads you to that conclusion? I'm certainly not enough of an expert on the ins and outs to trust only what I see. These are genuine questions.

There is the helmet taken off play, of course, vs Buffalo. Live and learn. Definitely think we dodged a bullet there. Beyond that there are quite a few clips on Twitter etc pointing out how he's going through his progressions and so on. So I think the bulk of the experts are saying to play Fields with a few saying he should take some time to learn protections better. I think the former significantly outnumber the latter at the moment

 

[SlickWilly]

Should I believe Hoge, or Drew Brees…I wonder.:..

I mean, you're right, in the history of the NFL a former player has never been wrong about a current player.....ever.....

 

[Bearly]

Again with an ad hominen. My feelings have nothing to do with this.

If the expert gives no additional analysis and other experts disagree, then you have to then consider whose analysis/argument is better. Manning disagrees with Brees. Thus, HoF QB means nothing in this conversation. That's my point. I'm done attempting to explain this to you.

Adam Hoge is sportswriter that never played or coached anything at a high level. You can agree with him but he’s far from expert compared to genuine coaches or QBs that have been through it and better understand what’s involved. There’s hot reads adjustments etc that Fields hasn’t yet seen let alone experienced. He’ll learn more about how those work with this O in the next few weeks.

 

[kalmavet]

Adam Hoge is sportswriter that never played or coached anything at a high level. You can agree with him but he’s far from expert compared to genuine coaches or QBs that have been through it and better understand what’s involved. There’s hot reads adjustments etc that Fields hasn’t yet seen let alone experienced. He’ll learn more about how those work with this O in the next few weeks.

Sure. Hoge himself makes a similar point on his podcast (Matt Nagy knows more about football...). But that isn't what I'm objecting to. Hoge's proximity to the team is important and more important still is his argument, not what one HoF QB says, unless the qb gives evidence. His background is less important than his argument. I'm objecting to posters ignoring the arguments just because Hoge didn't play football at a high level and brees did

 

[Da Coach]

Neither Rodgers, Brady, or Mahomes started their first game as a drafted rookie.

I see a clear pattern emerging here...

 

[Visionman]

Neither Rodgers, Brady, or Mahomes started their first game as a drafted rookie.

I see a clear pattern emerging here...

Well, at least it shows that at times, starting right off the bat may not be the best option…

 

[Bearly]

Sure. Hoge himself makes a similar point on his podcast (Matt Nagy knows more about football...). But that isn't what I'm objecting to. Hoge's proximity to the team is important and more important still is his argument, not what one HoF QB says, unless the qb gives evidence. His background is less important than his argument. I'm objecting to posters ignoring the arguments just because Hoge didn't play football at a high level and brees did

You’re objecting to someone that knows there’s more to it that Hoge can possibly realize.

 

[kalmavet]

You’re objecting to someone that knows there’s more to it that Hoge can possibly realize.

No. I'm objecting to the logic of accepting it just because a HoF QB says so. If that's the only criteria, what happens when a different HoF QB says the opposite? In this case Manning and Brees disagree. The argument can't stand on that basis alone. It's not that difficult to understand. We can do better.

It's basic logic. If the premise is defeated or contracted (HoF QB says x but different HoF QB says y) then the conclusion is defeated. Thus, the premises have to better. They could be. But HoF QB isn't sufficient.

Put another way, why trust Brees over Manning or vice versa?

BY
THEIR
ACTUAL
ARGUMENT/ANALYSIS

 

[Bearly]

No. I'm objecting to the logic of accepting it just because a HoF QB says so. If that's the only criteria, what happens when a different HoF QB says the opposite? In this case Manning and Brees disagree. The argument can't stand on that basis alone. It's not that difficult to understand. We can do better.

Manning believes QBs should be allowed to learn by making their mistakes on the field. I can accept that but there’s a middle ground where they can make fewer errors by watching for a bit. You can even get better faster if you start with a larger tool bag. Not every QB responds like Manning from throwing that many picks as a rookie. Some develop bad habits or get shell shocked.

I don’t believe Justin would be one of those but I do understand how a few more weeks of seeing NFL Ds actually scheme this O could benefit him in progressing quicker.

i simply feel it’s wrong to dismiss a HOF QB, be it Brees or Manning and assume a Beat reporter knows more. The coaches and Bear QBs are in the best positions to try and get this right.

 

[CHIBEAR]

Well, at least it shows that at times, starting right off the bat may not be the best option…

not really

Brady was a 7th rd pick

Rodgers sat behind a HOF QB

Mahomes sat behind a guy who was pro bowler in that system running one of the better offenses in the league

There is really no comparison for what the Bears are doing

 

[kalmavet]

Manning believes QBs should be allowed to learn by making their mistakes on the field. I can accept that but there’s a middle ground where they can make fewer errors by watching for a bit. You can even get better faster if you start with a larger tool bag. Not every QB responds like Manning from throwing that many picks as a rookie. Some develop bad habits or get shell shocked.

I don’t believe Justin would be one of those but I do understand how a few more weeks of seeing NFL Ds actually scheme this O could benefit him in progressing quicker.

i simply feel it’s wrong to dismiss a HOF QB, be it Brees or Manning and assume a Beat reporter knows more. The coaches and Bear QBs are in the best positions to try and get this right.

Again this is about the logic. You are dismissing a HoF QB's point to follow your own analysis. That is even more suspect than agreeing with a beat writer over a HoF QB. And for the umpteenth time the whole problem is HoF QBs disagree. Thus, the reasons they articulate matter.

It's not that I disagree with the idea of a middle ground. I disagree with dismissing a well reasoned article just because a HoF QB disagrees when another HoF QB disagrees with that QB. Why they say what they say is then the criteria, same as for the beat writer.

 

[The Big Grabowski]

Fields has shown he has the tools and composure to handle the starting job in week 1.

But it was never a competition and that's on Nagy. From the start, he chose to misread history (Smith and Mahomes don't apply to our QB vacuum). Rather than seeing what's obvious, Nagy sticks to his plan rather than taking a step back and considering where each QB stands after the offseason.

FFS, this offense is a pile of steaming garbage entering year 4 yet he only played the top 3 receivers a total of 7 snaps in the preseason. He gave Dalton and Fields nothing to work with on OL or WR. The result was predictably garbage.

Of course everyone is calling for Fields. The rookie is talented enough to create on his own, which gives a desperate fan base something to cling to. Because WTF else gives fans any confidence that games coached by Nagy will be watchable this season?

 

[kalmavet]

Neither Rodgers, Brady, or Mahomes started their first game as a drafted rookie.

I see a clear pattern emerging here...

3 cherry picked examples doesn't establish anything except a biased small sample size. There are dozens of examples of...

Qbs who sat and sucked
Qbs who sat and were great (your examples)
Qbs who started right away and sucked
Qbs who started right away and were great
Qbs who sat briefly and were great

And so on.

 

[Bearly]

Again this is about the logic. You are dismissing a HoF QB's point to follow your own analysis. That is even more suspect than agreeing with a beat writer over a HoF QB. And for the umpteenth time the whole problem is HoF QBs disagree. Thus, the reasons they articulate matter.

It's not that I disagree with the idea of a middle ground. I disagree with dismissing a well reasoned article just because a HoF QB disagrees when another HoF QB disagrees with that QB. Why they say what they say is then the criteria, same as for the beat writer.

Wat? You’re the one dismissing Brees. I simply explained why Hoge’s opinion shouldn’t be more worthy and have my own opinion. You’re spinning this into something else and I clearly stated thar neither QBs opinion should be dismissed. Hoge just doesn’t happen to be the difference maker you claimed he was here. Don’t invert the situation.

 

[kalmavet]

Wat? You’re the one dismissing Brees. I simply explained why Hoge’s opinion shouldn’t be more worthy and have my own opinion. You’re spinning this into something else and I clearly stated thar neither QBs opinion should be dismissed. Hoge just doesn’t happen to be the difference maker you claimed he was here. Don’t invert the situation.

You don't follow me for whatever reason. Maybe that's on me. My issue wasn't even with you initially. Because experts and HoF players disagree we need more than the notion that a HoF player is all I need to make claim x. Their argument is important, too. Brees didn't give a good one for various reasons. The original comment I took issue with was we should accept what Brees says over Hoge because HoF QB. So what do we do when another HoF QB agrees with Hoge? Clearly HoF QB as the criteria got us nowhere.

 

[Bearly]

Go it. This seemed like you were Hoge>>>Brees and is what got me started.

Brees has been following the Bears closely for years, has been to several Bears practices this preseason, watched the all-22 tape of every preseason snap, been to numerous press conferences with bears players and coaches, and in general understands well the immediate context of this conversation. Oh wait. No that's Hoge.

 

[Toast88]

I consider those who actually have done it to know what they are talking about a lot more than a talking head. Brees gave his comments during a game telecast. Not exactly time to break it down in that situation. Be realistic. You prefer the guy who backs up your opinion.

To me, it t dry isn’t matter. I want Fields to play when he’s ready. If that was day 1, great. If it’s later, perfectly fine. I’m looking to see a great QB for a decade or more in Chicago. A few games doesn’t really matter.

We could just as easily point to all the times HoF players became terrible executives and coaches at the pro level. Statements have to be held up by good arguments, no matter who's making them.