Hoge's CHGO: Bears are better at everything this year except for D-Line & WR (barely)

[bamainatlanta]

Yes they did.

They lost Denico Autry to FA (to a division rival Tenn on a multi year deal) then massively upgraded by acquiring Deforest Buckner.

I get it’s easy to equate something to nothing when you compare it to an all pro, but let’s try being a little less lazy.

In 2018, Autry dominated at 3T with 9 sacks--he was listed as their starting 3T and they finished 10th in DVOA Defensively.
In 2019, he wasn't as dominant and dealt with nagging injuries and they dropped to 19th in DVOA Defense--then they got Bruckner.

 

[Bronek]

Bears will be better because of the rejuvenated T- formation Nagy refused to run.. The emphasis on the run game should help Fields.

 

[Bust]

Nagy is simply the key but most of the staff had issues once Fangio left.

is fangio still unemployed?

 

[Zvbxrpl]

In 2018, Autry dominated at 3T with 9 sacks--he was listed as their starting 3T and they finished 10th in DVOA Defensively.
In 2019, he wasn't as dominant and dealt with nagging injuries and they dropped to 19th in DVOA Defense--then they got Bruckner.

And he still got 3 years from a division rival after his injured/down tear.

I just responded to the idiot who downplays the vital role 3 tech is in this defense by insinuating Indy had great defenses without one.

Try being a little less of a tool.

Try taking your own advice.

Especially after you concede he had great years at 3 tech after saying Indy had solid defensive units “without a 3 tech” then admit you’re wrong…

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Using the Same approach
Offense +1, I think they will run the ball more often and more effectively, get the ball out quick.
Defense - 1, Change in scheme and lack of 3 technique, secondary should be better, Mack and Hicks gone, a lot of talent left the team.
Special Teams -1, since you can not give a zero, not sure about how the holding will go with a rookie punter, plus the punting and who is the kickoff and punt returners?
Coaching +1, (I know a mailbox should be an upgrade over Nagy) and all of them are experienced coaches, but many of them are in new roles, plus implementing a new offense and defensive scheme ALWAYS has growing pains.

Overall a zero, so 6 wins again if we played the same teams as last year, but we are playing a weaker schedule, so 7 wins.

Just some random thoughts about what you wrote.

1. Perspective is important when talking about what the offense can do.
   1. The 2021 offense was horrible with bad play calling, a #1 receiver who had checked out, a completely inept head coach who ignored the running game, the #1 receiver's talents, and coached to the QBs weaknesses, and whole team that was irresponsible and poorly coached.
      1. A new coaching staff teaching the team basic stuff like no stupid penalties, good tackling and team discipline will have an immediate impact on the team.
      2. The Trestman Bears defense was probably the worst defense that the Bears ever had, so Fox, the following year, had a much improved defense even with a shift to a 3-4 defense and not having the personnel to run a 3-4 defense because the defense had been so bad the year before.
      3. I believe that the offense is going to be much improved for the same reason. Nagy had created such a shit-stain offense in 2021 that, even with non-ideal offensive personnel, the offense is going to improve just because of Nagy being replaced with anyone.
   2. The talk of a team with new coaches always having growing pains is not really true.
      1. Both Nagy and Trestman had their best years their very first year when they had a weak schedule and their opponents did not know what to expect from the Bears offense.
         1. Hmmm. That sounds a whole lot like something that is happening now, but I can't put my finger on it.
      2. As shown in 3 above, the new Dox defense had a huge improvement while changing the whole defense scheme with players that did not fit the new scheme.
2. Of course a mailbox would be better than Nagy. Mailboxes are known for getting the message (mail) through, something that Nagy could never do.
3. Yes, a lot of talent left town, but how many games did the Bears lose from 2021 when both Mack and Hicks were either ineffective while injured or missed time while injured.
   1. It is safer to say that a lot of injury time left town, not a lot of production in 2021.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Th key players we lost this year were missing or hampered for most of last year so I expect better play at WR due both to personnel and scheme. Same for QB even if the line remains in question. Scheme should hep a lot and Justin no longer needs to question his leadership roll on the team. Getsy is handing him the keys and ability to steer on the field. I expect a clear upgrade on O if the line can at least be mediocre.

There is little question the secondary will be much improved but the DL is certainly in question. We've lost Hicks, Mack and Goldman but what did we really get from them last year? Still, the lack of a top 3 tech in this D is a genuine concern.

Here's the thing. Record should be better than last year because the C2/3 tends to work really well against meh teams and that's the bulk of our schedule this year. The problem comes when you face VG QBs that read well and throw guys open in seams. Then you need that pressure to hurry a decision and without pushing the pocket, guys like Quinn become less effective. Jones is a decent player but a stop gap. That said, I'm not sure that the Ogunjobi saga is over.

I don't think we have less OL depth than last year. We didn't have Jenkins to start the season and didn't even know if Peters could still play T. Who were our backups in Sept?

This was our depth chart:

• Left tackle: Jason Peters, Larry Borom
• Left guard: Cody Whitehair
• Center: Sam Mustipher
• Right guard: James Daniels, Alex Bars
• Right tackle: Germain Ifedi, Elijah Wilkinson, Lachavious Simmons

Jones is as good a rookie prospect as Borom was, maybe more so as his draft grade was higher. Whether our starting LT will perform to a decent standard remains to be seen but the depth is no worse. That said, Peters was good for us but he also no longer fits an outside zone scheme so was not destined to stay anyway. Shon Coleman is as good as any of the other vets we had around.

Jenkins is an upgrade on the right side.

Patrick is an upgrade at C.

Cody fits this scheme better than the last one.

RG is a big issue right now.

It's early and we're not done. It's not like we had Peters at this time last year either and Thomas has a lot of potential at G but needs coaching, bulk and reps before he makes that move. I doubt he can be all that by Sept (if at all) but it wouldn't be the 1st time.

Don't be surprised if "Pig" Simmons surprises people with a chance of winning the RG spot.

Nagy threw Pig into a tackle spot which he just never had the talent to man. Simmons is meant to play RG. Now the question is: is he good enough to be at least a serviceable RG, if not better?

 

[JoJoBoxer]

A million people have mentioned this. It is literally the go-to thing to say to try and defend Poles.

No, it is the go-to thing to say to put most of the crappy play of the 2021 Bears where it belongs.


Poles may not have done enough with the players to support Fields.

Think of the scale moving towards the negative side.


Now consider how much Nagy screwed up the whole team in 2021 ... and 2020 ... and 2019.

Suddenly the scale shifts dramatically towards the positive side. Poles still didn't do a lot to support Fields this offseason, but that doesn't mean that Fields isn't in a much better place to succeed this year.

 

[rawdawg]

And he still got 3 years from a division rival after his injured/down tear.

I just responded to the idiot who downplays the vital role 3 tech is in this defense by insinuating Indy had great defenses without one.


Try taking your own advice.

Especially after you concede he had great years at 3 tech after saying Indy had solid defensive units “without a 3 tech” then admit you’re wrong…

Name calling strangers on message board is such tiny dick energy. I made a mistake. Owned up to it. Calm your micropenis having ass down.

 

[rawdawg]

You are saying players that DIDNT perform last year were better based upon reputation and talent…that didn’t produce like they were supposed to. How does that make sense?

I'm basically saying you can't say May 2022 Byron Pringle is better than May 2021 Allen Robinson, without the benefit of hindsight. We all thought Robinson was going to be a legit weapon in the offense, some wanted him signed long-term. Now all of a sudden, the WR corps is better without him? Sure, Pringle will probably outproduce 2021 Robinson, but he's not a better WR than 2022 Robinson will likely be.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

I'm basically saying you can't say May 2022 Byron Pringle is better than May 2021 Allen Robinson, without the benefit of hindsight. We all thought Robinson was going to be a legit weapon in the offense, some wanted him signed long-term. Now all of a sudden, the WR corps is better without him? Sure, Pringle will probably outproduce 2021 Robinson, but he's not a better WR than 2022 Robinson will likely be.

Sorry, but this is a fucking stupid argument. Who gives a shit what we thought going into 2021's season? A-Rob sucked. That's the FACTS. Our anticipation has zero to do with it, and fan anticipation is often wrong.

So, arguing that the 2022 WR room is worse than what we THOUGHT the 2021 WR would be is really damn dumb.

The reality is the 2021 WR corps aside from Mooney was ass, and we had zero reason to believe A-Rob would stop sulking and re-sign with the Bears this year, given it was a shit attitude that NO ONE saw coming that fucked him up last year. A-Rob didn't want to be here. So don't cling to that like he's an ex who broke up with you and broke your heart, and you just want to be together again - its sad dude. Move on.

 

[rawdawg]

Sorry, but this is a fucking stupid argument. Who gives a shit what we thought going into 2021's season? A-Rob sucked. That's the FACTS. Our anticipation has zero to do with it, and fan anticipation is often wrong.

So, arguing that the 2022 WR room is worse than what we THOUGHT the 2021 WR would be is really damn dumb.

The reality is the 2021 WR corps aside from Mooney was ass, and we had zero reason to believe A-Rob would stop sulking and re-sign with the Bears this year, given it was a shit attitude that NO ONE saw coming that fucked him up last year. A-Rob didn't want to be here. So don't cling to that like he's an ex who broke up with you and broke your heart, and you just want to be together again - its sad dude. Move on.

Is it though? You're going on what you THINK the 2022 is going to be, aren't you?

And what the hell are you talking about? I'm not holding on to shit. I don't want ARob back. Didn't even want him re-signed last year when everyone else did. Just saying, the WR group is not as talented as the WR group this time last year. Because that's literally all we have to go on is projection....on paper, but this team hasn't put on pads yet. What happens if Pringle gets hurt too and starts sulking because he's a pending FA who is looking to boost his numbers for a big payday so he can afford more reckless driving tickets?

The 2021 corps was ass. The 2022 corps is ass as well. Just because we're all optimistic it will work out doesn't mean it's a better group than 2021 was. Difference in schemes aside, 2022 loses a talent comparison 1-to-1. Just like OL. Everyone took exception to me saying Peters was a HOF'er and Daniels a 2nd round pick. Those are facts. Just because they didn't perform like that doesn't mean unknowns are going to perform better. Just because ARob didn't perform like a former 4x 1000 yard WR doesn't mean the Bears didn't lose a great deal of talent by letting him leave.

 

[Bearly]

is fangio still unemployed?

It's relative. He's still getting his checks.

 

[Bearly]

Don't be surprised if "Pig" Simmons surprises people with a chance of winning the RG spot.

Nagy threw Pig into a tackle spot which he just never had the talent to man. Simmons is meant to play RG. Now the question is: is he good enough to be at least a serviceable RG, if not better?

I'm not high on Simmons but you never know.

 

[VickAshley✅️verified]

Sorry, but this is a fucking stupid argument. Who gives a shit what we thought going into 2021's season? A-Rob sucked. That's the FACTS. Our anticipation has zero to do with it, and fan anticipation is often wrong.

So, arguing that the 2022 WR room is worse than what we THOUGHT the 2021 WR would be is really damn dumb.

The reality is the 2021 WR corps aside from Mooney was ass, and we had zero reason to believe A-Rob would stop sulking and re-sign with the Bears this year, given it was a shit attitude that NO ONE saw coming that fucked him up last year. A-Rob didn't want to be here. So don't cling to that like he's an ex who broke up with you and broke your heart, and you just want to be together again - its sad dude. Move on.

This is literally what happens when you attack the man versus attacking what the man acturally literally wrote and makes you look badly because A. ROB does not and did not suck he just didn't play up to his potential because of culture and money but he is and was more talented than anyone on the bears roster last season and this season and if you are being honest and objective there is no way you can disagree with that but sure let's make the argument about something that wasn't being argued by @rawdawg so you can think you are getting a W but anyone who says A.Rob sucks is holding a big bag of Ls shaking my head!

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Is it though? You're going on what you THINK the 2022 is going to be, aren't you?

And what the hell are you talking about? I'm not holding on to shit. I don't want ARob back. Didn't even want him re-signed last year when everyone else did. Just saying, the WR group is not as talented as the WR group this time last year. Because that's literally all we have to go on is projection....on paper, but this team hasn't put on pads yet. What happens if Pringle gets hurt too and starts sulking because he's a pending FA who is looking to boost his numbers for a big payday so he can afford more reckless driving tickets?

The 2021 corps was ass. The 2022 corps is ass as well. Just because we're all optimistic it will work out doesn't mean it's a better group than 2021 was. Difference in schemes aside, 2022 loses a talent comparison 1-to-1. Just like OL. Everyone took exception to me saying Peters was a HOF'er and Daniels a 2nd round pick. Those are facts. Just because they didn't perform like that doesn't mean unknowns are going to perform better. Just because ARob didn't perform like a former 4x 1000 yard WR doesn't mean the Bears didn't lose a great deal of talent by letting him leave.

I don't completely disagree, but while the 2021 corps was ass, we only THINK the 2022 corps will also be ass. THAT is my point. Its like not learning the lesson. We don't know 2022 will be ass. That doesn't mean they'll be great either, but there is a very wide spectrum between great and ass, and none of us know right know where the Bears will fall on it.

 

[Visionman]

I'm basically saying you can't say May 2022 Byron Pringle is better than May 2021 Allen Robinson, without the benefit of hindsight. We all thought Robinson was going to be a legit weapon in the offense, some wanted him signed long-term. Now all of a sudden, the WR corps is better without him? Sure, Pringle will probably outproduce 2021 Robinson, but he's not a better WR than 2022 Robinson will likely be.

If he’s a better WR this year, then he benefitted the team, and Fields, MUCH MORE than Robinson ever did last year. And that’s all that counts…

 

[JoJoBoxer]

I'm not high on Simmons but you never know.

He is, I believe, a 6th round pick with two years experience. That should give him a leg up over the 4 2022 drafted offensive linemen.

But I agree with you, I am not high on him either but maybe a Pig can fly.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

He is, I believe, a 6th round pick with two years experience. That should give him a leg up over the 4 2022 drafted offensive linemen.

But I agree with you, I am not high on him either but maybe a Pig can fly.

Wasn’t he the one who gave up two sacks in like 80 snaps?

 

[Bearly]

Wasn’t he the one who gave up two sacks in like 80 snaps?

felt like 8 snaps.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

This is literally what happens when you attack the man versus attacking what the man acturally literally wrote and makes you look badly because A. ROB does not and did not suck he just didn't play up to his potential because of culture and money but he is and was more talented than anyone on the bears roster last season and this season and if you are being honest and objective there is no way you can disagree with that but sure let's make the argument about something that wasn't being argued by @rawdawg so you can think you are getting a W but anyone who says A.Rob sucks is holding a big bag of Ls shaking my head!

You are doing exactly what you are saying that he did, which might also be true.

MJY said that Robinson "sucked", which is true. In 2021, Robinson sucked.

MJY did not say that Robinson "sucks" which would mean that he is talentless from 2021 going forward.

Robinson did not play well in 2021. This is a fact.

The 2022 Bears do not have to replace the 2018, 2019 nor the 2020 Robinson. They only have to replace Robinson's production from 2021 to not be worse in 2022 in regards to the #1 receiver position.

This is not some impossible goal. It may not happen if Pringle and company do not show something. If Pringle or Equestrian do match Robinson's 2021 production, it will mean that what the Bears got from that WR position sucked, just like it sucked in 2021 with Robinson.