Hopkins on the move...to Chicago???

MikeDitkaPolishSausage

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 12, 2013
Posts:
8,533
Liked Posts:
7,695
Location:
Black Rainbow’s Grandma’s house.
It's amazing, and a little sad, that you can't seem to handle when i go back at someone that comes at me. You come at me and i hit back. It's really pretty simple. Now why don't you let the big boys handle things themselves?

Thanks
What exactly are you referencing to “hit back”. Calling people names on a message board? All you are doing is showing your mental instability.

Is the bolded your way of “hitting back” at me?
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,798
Liked Posts:
37,737
I don't see Hopkins as a checkdown target LOL.

Again 55% of his targets are 9 yards or less. There is a reason teams are not rushing to sign him.
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,798
Liked Posts:
37,737
Every team and every QB has a checkdown WR. Fields not clicking with ARob had nothing to do with the type of WR he is and everything to do with he quit on the team before Fields was ever the starter. Fields favorite WR, Mooney averages, what do you know 8.3 ybc while playing with Fields, less than Hopkins. And will you look at that, he did that with King Checkdown Charlie throwing him the ball.
View attachment 29482

The majority of Mooney's targets are 10 yards or more per PFF. See @bamainatlanta data on WR efficiency.
Hopkins was 70th(?) in DVOA at WR which measures a player’s efficiency and expected production based on targets/catches. He usually ranked in the top 20(like 2021 which was injury plagued).

Correct. As I said his production last year was largely a function of the number of targets. He is not the same WR as he was before hence why no one is running to sign him.
 

bamainatlanta

You wake him up, you keep him up
Staff member
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Aug 10, 2013
Posts:
33,619
Liked Posts:
33,550
Location:
Cumming
Again 55% of his targets are 9 yards or less. There is a reason teams are not rushing to sign him.
He’s a declining asset. He would offer this roster nothing to improve the long term outlook. I’m not even sure he’s much of a short term improvement given his low DVOA last year
 

SugarWalls

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 17, 2013
Posts:
5,983
Liked Posts:
6,366
Again 55% of his targets are 9 yards or less. There is a reason teams are not rushing to sign him.
Probably has a lot to do with scheme, also it’s only half so how about the other half of his targets?
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,798
Liked Posts:
37,737

That said, there’s a healthy divide on exactly what Hopkins has left. I asked one veteran team executive what’s still there, and he answered, via text, “Not much. He can’t run anymore.” Another answer was pretty different—“He’s still a good player. Good route runner, big, physical target that can play a ball in the air. He’s still a threat.” And a third played both sides of it.


“Still great hands, he is not going to separate, not much of a deep threat, but very strong, and makes contested catches as well as anyone in the NFL,” the AFC exec said. “Does not love to practice—I can’t imagine that’ll get any better. And when things don’t go well, you’re always gonna be leery, All right, what kind of drama are we gonna get from this guy? When things are great, he’s great. When things go south, his true colors show a little bit.

Right so again you going to bring a guy that got 10 targets a game and doesnt fit what Fields likes to do so he can get pissed when he is only getting 3-5 targets.

He’s a declining asset. He would offer this roster nothing to improve the long term outlook. I’m not even sure he’s much of a short term improvement given his low DVOA last year

Bears fans really be acting like this is madden.


Probably has a lot to do with scheme, also it’s only half so how about the other half of his targets?

No a lot to do with he can't run anymore. If 55% of his targets are 9 yards or less then it means the other 45% are 10 yards or more.
 

didshereallysaythat

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 14, 2011
Posts:
20,304
Liked Posts:
9,919
Every player on the roster does not have to be some young undeveloped player who has no unlocked his true potential. We need some veteran presence. Not saying it is Hopkins. But just because Poles has a theme of players he signs doesn't mean there are not exceptions.
 

bamainatlanta

You wake him up, you keep him up
Staff member
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Aug 10, 2013
Posts:
33,619
Liked Posts:
33,550
Location:
Cumming
Every player on the roster does not have to be some young undeveloped player who has no unlocked his true potential. We need some veteran presence. Not saying it is Hopkins. But just because Poles has a theme of players he signs doesn't mean there are not exceptions.
But I’d rather it be a veteran that actually practices (which helps Fields develop)and won’t throw a hissy fit if things go south. Hopkins will be a fine addition to a team that wants to win a SB this year that also has a QB who is fully developed
 

SugarWalls

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 17, 2013
Posts:
5,983
Liked Posts:
6,366
No a lot to do with he can't run anymore. If 55% of his targets are 9 yards or less then it means the other 45% are 10 yards or more.

Cardinals were dead last in the league at 6 yards per attempt.

I guess that’s all in D hop though and has literally nothing to do with the scheme they ran lmao good one.
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,798
Liked Posts:
37,737
Apparently not much interest around the NFL…

So elite that no one wants him. Saw Watson may want him in Cleveland. Maybe Hopkins oversaw his massage schedule and kept the therapists from talking.

Cardinals were dead last in the league at 6 yards per attempt.

I guess that’s all in D hop though and has literally nothing to do with the scheme they ran lmao good one.

All on him? No. On him enough for teams to not be interested at his asking price? Yes.

Hopkins is no longer an elite WR. You are free to disagree but it wont change the fact he isn't coming here. The end.
 
Last edited:

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
32,296
Liked Posts:
18,795
He had those yards in 9 games because the Cards sucked and his target share was ridiculous. He needed 10 targets a game to get those numbers and he is unlikely to get 10 targets a game with the Bears because there is more competition and he isn't the type of WR Fields typically likes. In this offense with the WRs we have he would basically be the checkdown/safe option which for Fields is typically the last read in his progression. So you would be signing a guy to good money to get like 5-7 targets a game if that and his production will be much less as a result.

Basically it would be like arguing to sign Allen Robinson when we already saw that Fields doesn't like an Allen Robinson type of WR. Sign Hopkins and you likely looking at him complaining when he is getting 3 receptions of 5 targets for 33 yards. So unless Fields turns into a checkdown/short game specialist, it isn't worth it IMO.

Houston's No 1 WR is Robert Woods. So he is likely to get a fuck ton of targets there which is part of the reason he is still considering them. At this stage, I suspect Hopkins is after Super Bowls, money, and stat padding in some order.
What other factors are there? Weather? Uniform color?

And I do love the suggestion that if he were to come to the Bears he'd be only a check down option.
 

SugarWalls

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 17, 2013
Posts:
5,983
Liked Posts:
6,366
So elite that no one wants him. Saw Watson may want him in Cleveland. Maybe Hopkins oversaw his massage schedule and kept the therapists from talking.



All on him? No. On him enough for teams to not be interested at his asking price? Yes.

Hopkins is no longer an elite WR. You are free to disagree but it wont change the fact he isn't coming here. The end.
I don’t want the bears to go after him, they don’t even pass enough to warrant it, and with clay pool / Mooney looming it makes no sense.

Your narrative on him is stupid though, doesn’t change that at all. Sure there are better young guys in the league, but Hopkins is still an excellent WR.
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,798
Liked Posts:
37,737
What other factors are there? Weather? Uniform color?

And I do love the suggestion that if he were to come to the Bears he'd be only a check down option.

Weather, being close to home, culture, and so on and so forth. The point was the Bears can only offer money at this point. They are not Super Bowl contenders and he isnt going to be able pad his stats given all the options the Bears have.

He was largely a check down option for the Cards and we have WRs that are better options intermediate and deep. Again there is a reason why he isnt signed.

After talking with several league sources this week about a potential union between Hopkins and the Patriots, a handful of themes have emerged. He is not thought to be, I'm told, a "program fit."

Hopkins "doesn't practice," said one offensive assistant. That sentiment was echoed by others who identified the Patriots as a "rigid" working environment where an emphasis on intense preparation is the modus operandi.

"That's not him," the offensive assistant said. "He's never been that guy."


We already saw Jenkins in the doghouse due to practice habits so why would we spend $15m on a guy that doesn't buy into practice. This again is not Madden. Poles and Flus have certain guys in mind that they bring in. An aging WR who is limited as an intermediate to deep option that doesnt like to practice but wants $15m or so is not a fit for the Bears. Sorry.

If he is willing to come in under 15m and be a team player then great but doubt that is what he is looking for.
 
Last edited:

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,798
Liked Posts:
37,737
I don’t want the bears to go after him, they don’t even pass enough to warrant it, and with clay pool / Mooney looming it makes no sense.

Your narrative on him is stupid though, doesn’t change that at all. Sure there are better young guys in the league, but Hopkins is still an excellent WR.

My narrative on him is supported by the data and the talk about him around the league.

That said, there’s a healthy divide on exactly what Hopkins has left. I asked one veteran team executive what’s still there, and he answered, via text, “Not much. He can’t run anymore.” Another answer was pretty different—“He’s still a good player. Good route runner, big, physical target that can play a ball in the air. He’s still a threat.” And a third played both sides of it.

“Still great hands, he is not going to separate, not much of a deep threat, but very strong, and makes contested catches as well as anyone in the NFL,” the AFC exec said. “Does not love to practice—I can’t imagine that’ll get any better. And when things don’t go well, you’re always gonna be leery, All right, what kind of drama are we gonna get from this guy? When things are great, he’s great. When things go south, his true colors show a little bit.


Again it is fine if you disagree but to pretend there isnt a sentiment that at this stage of his career Hopkins isnt much of an intermediate or deep threat is silly. Not to mention he doesnt like to practice and can turn into a malcontent if he isn't getting targets.
 

SugarWalls

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 17, 2013
Posts:
5,983
Liked Posts:
6,366
My narrative on him is supported by the data and the talk about him around the league.

That said, there’s a healthy divide on exactly what Hopkins has left. I asked one veteran team executive what’s still there, and he answered, via text, “Not much. He can’t run anymore.” Another answer was pretty different—“He’s still a good player. Good route runner, big, physical target that can play a ball in the air. He’s still a threat.” And a third played both sides of it.

“Still great hands, he is not going to separate, not much of a deep threat, but very strong, and makes contested catches as well as anyone in the NFL,” the AFC exec said. “Does not love to practice—I can’t imagine that’ll get any better. And when things don’t go well, you’re always gonna be leery, All right, what kind of drama are we gonna get from this guy? When things are great, he’s great. When things go south, his true colors show a little bit.


Again it is fine if you disagree but to pretend there isnt a sentiment that at this stage of his career Hopkins isnt much of an intermediate or deep threat is silly. Not to mention he doesnt like to practice and can turn into a malcontent if he isn't getting targets.
Lmao if you just read the stuff you didn’t bold then it paints a different story.

Why trust one exec that says he literally can’t run and the info right around it says he’s a good player.

Obviously he is t a top 5 WR, but he’s not a garbage player that literally can’t run.

Are you unable to hold an unbiased and nuanced opinion, you’re far too emotional.
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,798
Liked Posts:
37,737
Lmao if you just read the stuff you didn’t bold then it paints a different story.

Why trust one exec that says he literally can’t run and the info right around it says he’s a good player.

Obviously he is t a top 5 WR, but he’s not a garbage player that literally can’t run.

Are you unable to hold an unbiased and nuanced opinion, you’re far too emotional.

I never claimed he wasn't a good player. I claimed he was no longer a No 1 or elite and that he is limited down the field. I also didn't trust just one exec. I trusted 2. There are 3 execs commenting in the article and two of them concede he is not much of a threat down the field which is exactly what I said and what you initially disagreed with as you were blaming it on the QB or scheme. What those 2 execs are telling you is that Hopkins is not good down the field. His skill set is contested catches within 10 yards or so.

And you are the only one getting emotional. I already said you are free to disagree which acknowledges that others may have a different opinion on him. I gave you my opinion on him backed up by data and backed up by the article I quoted in which 2 out of 3 execs note he isn't much of a deep threat which again is the original claim you were disputing. Had nothing to do with whether he was good. It had to do with whether he was a deep threat or not as again you blamed it on the QB rather than Hopkins.

My argument was never that he is not a good player. It is that Fields likes to throw the ball down the field and Hopkins isn't a fit in that regard. Fields also seems to prefer guys who can separate which Hopkins isn't that guy. Finally I noted his practice habits and attitude was not a great fit for Flus and could be a problem if he isn't getting the 10 targets he got with the Cards.

So you aren't comprehending. You are whining about my opinion despite already agreeing he wasn't a fit for the Bears. So I have no idea what you are going on about. If you are going to respond, please respond to the argument I made and don't make up shit like suggesting I said he was not a good player. In fact, maybe quote the exact statement of mine that you disagree with.
 
Last edited:

SugarWalls

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 17, 2013
Posts:
5,983
Liked Posts:
6,366
I never claimed he wasn't a good player. I claimed he was no longer a No 1 or elite and that he is limited down the field. I also didn't trust just one exec. I trusted 2. There are 3 execs commenting in the article and two of them concede he is not much of a threat down the field which is exactly what I said and what you initially disagreed with as you were blaming it on the QB or scheme. What those 2 execs are telling you is that Hopkins is not good down the field. His skill set is contested catches within 10 yards or so.

And you are the only one getting emotional. I already said you are free to disagree which acknowledges that others may have a different opinion on him. I gave you my opinion on him backed up by data and backed up by the article I quoted in which 2 out of 3 execs note he isn't much of a deep threat which again is the original claim you were disputing. Had nothing to do with whether he was good. It had to do with whether he was a deep threat or not as again you blamed it on the QB rather than Hopkins.

My argument was never that he is not a good player. It is that Fields likes to throw the ball down the field and Hopkins isn't a fit in that regard. Fields also seems to prefer guys who can separate which Hopkins isn't that guy. Finally I noted his practice habits and attitude was not a great fit for Flus and could be a problem if he isn't getting the 10 targets he got with the Cards.

So you aren't comprehending. You are whining about my opinion despite already agreeing he wasn't a fit for the Bears. So I have no idea what you are going on about. If you are going to respond, please respond to the argument I made and don't make up shit like suggesting I said he was not a good player. In fact, maybe quote the exact statement of mine that you disagree with.
Here we go with the mind reading. Please tell us what fields is thinking!
 

Bearly

Dissed membered
Donator
Joined:
Aug 17, 2011
Posts:
41,084
Liked Posts:
23,406
Location:
Palatine, IL
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
My narrative on him is supported by the data and the talk about him around the league.

That said, there’s a healthy divide on exactly what Hopkins has left. I asked one veteran team executive what’s still there, and he answered, via text, “Not much. He can’t run anymore.” Another answer was pretty different—“He’s still a good player. Good route runner, big, physical target that can play a ball in the air. He’s still a threat.” And a third played both sides of it.

“Still great hands, he is not going to separate, not much of a deep threat, but very strong, and makes contested catches as well as anyone in the NFL,” the AFC exec said. “Does not love to practice—I can’t imagine that’ll get any better. And when things don’t go well, you’re always gonna be leery, All right, what kind of drama are we gonna get from this guy? When things are great, he’s great. When things go south, his true colors show a little bit.


Again it is fine if you disagree but to pretend there isnt a sentiment that at this stage of his career Hopkins isnt much of an intermediate or deep threat is silly. Not to mention he doesnt like to practice and can turn into a malcontent if he isn't getting targets.
While I still think he'd contribute here and open Fields' game to more throw it ups, which he was understandably tentative of last year, I'm sure the practice habit stuff doesn't sit well with this staff.

That said, lots of that short throws was due to the air raid and Murray bailing. He had the highest YPC of any WR on that team. He was a 4.6 guy coming into the league and his game was never about speed.
 
Last edited:

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,798
Liked Posts:
37,737
Here we go with the mind reading. Please tell us what fields is thinking!

Has nothing to do with reading his mind. He has one of the highest air yards per pass in the NFL and hesitates throwing to guys that are tightly covered.

Again you aren't comprehending the argument as you are fixated on disagreeing just to disagree. The fact Fields likes throwing down the field and likes guys who separate has been discussed on here a ton.

While I still think he'd contribute here and open Fields' game to more throw it ups, which he was understandably tentative of last year, I'm sure the practice habit stuff doesn't sit well with this staff.

That said, lots of that short throws was due to the air raid and Murray bailing. He had the highest YPC of any WR on that team. He was a 4.6 guy coming into the league and his game was never about speed.

The question is whether he will contribute enough to warrant 15m a year and to keep him happy. I don't see him getting 10 targets a game here. He is much better going to a place that can feed him a ton of targets.

His YAC was 1.7 which would be lowest on the team. Even if I accept the scheme led to a lot of short passes, it doesnt explain his complete inability to get YAC.

He is good at what he does which is largely contested catches and working the short game.
 
Last edited:

Top