I’m eating crow on Daboll

[Mdbearz]

this can't be a serious post.

I am very serious, Byron Leftwich has proven to be a poor OC unless Tom Brady is running the offense.

Why anyone can't see that is beyond me....

 

[dweebs19]

I am very serious, Byron Leftwich has proven to be a poor OC unless Tom Brady is running the offense.

the stats show you that he had a top 5 offense without Brady. You then bring up w/l record as if that's his job as an OC. Just look at offensive production. Simple as that. The better argument against Leftwich is that you don't know how much input Arians has on the offense. Not his w/l record. lol

 

[Mdbearz]

They averaged 28.6 points a game under Winston. The Ints are obviously not good but the O was still putting up points despite all the Ints.

Also are you going to show Daboll's record as OC before he got Allen?

Nope, I was responding to the post about Leftwich having a top 5 offense prior to Brady, that is completely misleading.

 

[rawdawg]

I don't worry about losing an OC to a HC job if he's good. Because the top offensive minds tend to bring with them and develop coaches under them like the QB coach or passing game coordinator, who can be promoted if the OC gets poached.
Plus, if the OC is good enough to get hired for a HC job, that means Justin Fields likely performed very well. Even if it's just 1 or 2 seasons, Fields' isn't going to crumble and fall apart because his OC is gone. Herbert lost his OC after his rookie year, they hired a defensive coach, changed offenses, and he still performed well. Josh Allen isn't going to fall apart without Daboll. The goal is to make Fields good. The league is full of good offensive minds who can't handle being a HC. Get the best coach, deal with the turnover when it happens.

 

[Mdbearz]

the stats show you that he had a top 5 offense without Brady. You then bring up w/l record as if that's his job as an OC. Just look at offensive production. Simple as that. The better argument against Leftwich is that you don't know how much input Arians has on the offense. Not his w/l record. lol

ok since you seem to be willing to look pass the record, how about the TD to INT ratio, or the fact that his pass happy offense lead directly to many of those losses.

I'm not saying I am a Tampa Expert, but I remember clearly in that 2019 season that the vast majority of those INTs came at the critical parts of the game and many of those yards and TD came in garbage time when the game was already decided due to the turn overs.

I will just say this, I want nothing to do with Leftwich as our next HC, because I feel he is a product of Tom Brady's success.

 

[remydat]

the stats show you that he had a top 5 offense without Brady. You then bring up w/l record as if that's his job as an OC. Just look at offensive production. Simple as that. The better argument against Leftwich is that you don't know how much input Arians has on the offense. Not his w/l record. lol

Arians already said he doesn't even attend offensive meetings. He is pretty hands off.

 

[remydat]

Nope, I was responding to the post about Leftwich having a top 5 offense prior to Brady, that is completely misleading.

The truth is misleading? It was top 5 in yards and points. That is a fact.

ok since you seem to be willing to look pass the record, how about the TD to INT ratio, or the fact that his pass happy offense lead directly to many of those losses.

I'm not saying I am a Tampa Expert, but I remember clearly in that 2019 season that the vast majority of those INTs came at the critical parts of the game and many of those yards and TD came in garbage time when the game was already decided due to the turn overs.

I will just say this, I want nothing to do with Leftwich as our next HC, because I feel he is a product of Tom Brady's success.

What garbage time? 6 of the 9 losses were by 7 points or less. In the 3 losses by more than 7 points he had 4 Tds and 12 ints. So no he was not getting a ton of yards and Tds in garbage time.

 

[Mdbearz]

The truth is misleading? It was top 5 in yards and points. That is a fact.

And Top of the League (that mean he was the worst)in Interception, also a fact.

And yet when the Same QB went to another team, Saints, his Interceptions went from a 1.1 ratio (33-30) under Leftwich to 4.6 ratio (14-3) under Carmichael in 7 games.

 

[remydat]

And Top of the League (that mean he was the worst)in Interception, also a fact.

And yet when the Same QB went to another team, Saints, his Interceptions went from a 1.1 ratio (33-30) under Leftwich to 4.6 ratio (14-3) under Carmichael in 7 games.

Yes so it is a mixed bag while you are making it seem like it is just terrible. The reality is 6 of the 9 losses were by 7 points or less. In the 3 losses by more than 7 points he had 4 Tds and 12 ints. So no he was not getting a ton of yards and Tds in garbage time.

In fact, it was those 3 losses that really skewed his numbers as otherwise he would have had 29 TDs and 18 Ints. So the reality is counter to your argument, it was the big losses that skewed his interception numbers not his TD numbers. So it seems there was a snowball effect in the bigger losses where he just threw a fuck ton of Ints.

 

[Visionman]

I pity people who either don’t understand, or willingly choose to ignore, this fact:

INTs lead to a shorter field for the opposing offense. That leads to more points given up (no matter the defense). This leads to MORE LOSSES.

If your offense is throwing a ton of INTs, IT IS HURTING YOUR TEAM. Doesn’t matter if you also get lots of yards, and even points. IT SETS THE DEFENSE, AND THE TEAM, UP FOR FAILURE.

 

[ZenBear34]

The truth is misleading? It was top 5 in yards and points. That is a fact.



What garbage time? 6 of the 9 losses were by 7 points or less. In the 3 losses by more than 7 points he had 4 Tds and 12 ints. So no he was not getting a ton of yards and Tds in garbage time.

They scored 24.8 a game in 2018. They also scored 6 defensive tds in 2019. So in 2018 the Bucs scored 382 offensive points, and in 2018 they scored 416 points. 23.9 in 2018, 26 in 2019. So 2 points a game difference. And more interceptions, fewer passing touchdowns and lower ypa.

So Leftwich's impact on the offense was...what exactly?

 

[remydat]

I pity people who either don’t understand, or willingly choose to ignore, this fact:

INTs lead to a shorter field for the opposing offense. That leads to more points given up (no matter the defense). This leads to MORE LOSSES.

If your offense is throwing a ton of INTs, IT IS HURTING YOUR TEAM. Doesn’t matter if you also get lots of yards, and even points. IT SETS THE DEFENSE, AND THE TEAM, UP FOR FAILURE.

No one is disputing that. The question is how much of that is on the QB or the OC. We don't know so if you want to hate on Leftwich you will pretend it was mostly his fault.

 

[Mdbearz]

Yes so it is a mixed bag while you are making it seem like it is just terrible. The reality is 6 of the 9 losses were by 7 points or less. In the 3 losses by more than 7 points he had 4 Tds and 12 ints. So no he was not getting a ton of yards and Tds in garbage time.

In fact, it was those 3 losses that really skewed his numbers as otherwise he would have had 29 TDs and 18 Ints. So the reality is counter to your argument, it was the big losses that skewed his interception numbers not his TD numbers. So it seems there was a snowball effect in the bigger losses where he just threw a fuck ton of Ints.

This sounds similar to the Matt Forte arguments, where people were saying "if you eliminate his big runs", he would only have so many yards.....

Sorry, but too many red flags for me to consider Leftwich a good candidate for our next HC.

Maybe I am suffering from the Nagy syndrome, he fooled the FO into believing that he was a good OC.

 

[remydat]

They scored 24.8 a game in 2018. They also scored 6 defensive tds in 2019. So in 2018 the Bucs scored 382 offensive points, and in 2018 they scored 416 points. 23.9 in 2018, 26 in 2019. So 2 points a game difference. And more interceptions, fewer passing touchdowns and lower ypa.

So Leftwich's impact on the offense was...what exactly?

How many defensive TDs did they score in 2018. You can't just take off the defensive TDs in one year and not the other so do you numbers exclude the defensive TDs in 2018?

 

[remydat]

This sounds similar to the Matt Forte arguments, where people were saying "if you eliminate his big runs", he would only have so many yards.....

Sorry, but too many red flags for me to consider Leftwich a good candidate for our next HC.

Maybe I am suffering from the Nagy syndrome, he fooled the FO into believing that he was a good OC.

No you are being a hypocrite. You were trying to eliminate yards and TDs based on it being garbage time.

I'm not saying I am a Tampa Expert, but I remember clearly in that 2019 season that the vast majority of those INTs came at the critical parts of the game and many of those yards and TD came in garbage time when the game was already decided due to the turn overs.

This is what you said. You wanted to pull a Matt Forte and remove TDs and yards based on the idea that it was garbage time. I just proved that in the games likely to have garbage time Winston had 4 Tds and 12 ints. Now that your attempt to pull a Matt Forte failed you now want to complain about eliminating numbers when that was your goal. It just backfired on you because you didn't bother to do the research. You opened the door with the above argument and I just walked thru it. Can't cop pleas now.

 

[Mdbearz]

No one is disputing that. The question is how much of that is on the QB or the OC. We don't know so if you want to hate on Leftwich you will pretend it was mostly his fault.

Well that QB was doing pretty good with the Saints (14td and 3 INTs) before he got hurt, so that leaves the OC in that case....

 

[Mdbearz]

No you are being a hypocrite. You were trying to eliminate yards and TDs based on it being garbage time.



This is what you said. You wanted to pull a Matt Forte and remove TDs and yards based on the idea that it was garbage time. I just proved that in the games likely to have garbage time Winston had 4 Tds and 12 ints. Now that your attempt to pull a Matt Forte failed you now want to complain about eliminate numbers when that was your goal. It just backfired on you because you didn't bother to do the research.

You funny..... you are the one that wanted to exclude the bad games, because they skewed to stats.....

No one is disputing that. The question is how much of that is on the QB or the OC. We don't know so if you want to hate on Leftwich you will pretend it was mostly his fault.

And actually if you want to make this about the QB or the OC, I would say that Tampa's offense was struggling with Turnovers prior to Brady's arrival, so.....

 

[remydat]

Well that QB was doing pretty good with the Saints (14td and 3 INTs) before he got hurt, so that leaves the OC in that case....

Small sample size my friend. And no it may just be that Winston was fucking embarrassed about throwing 30 Ints and so decided he would now be more cautious.

 

[remydat]

You funny..... you are the one that wanted to exclude the bad games, because they skewed to stats.....

And actually if you want to make this about the QB or the OC, I would say that Tampa's offense was struggling with Turnovers prior to Brady's arrival, so.....

Um no. Again this is what you said.

I'm not saying I am a Tampa Expert, but I remember clearly in that 2019 season that the vast majority of those INTs came at the critical parts of the game and many of those yards and TD came in garbage time when the game was already decided due to the turn overs.

Why did you mention the bold if it was not an attempt to try and eliminate his garbage time TDs and yards? The only reason to say the bold is to suggest those stats don't count. I simply used your own argument against you.

 

[Mdbearz]

Small sample size my friend. And no it may just be that Winston was fucking embarrassed about throwing 30 Ints and so decided he would now be more cautious.

That is indeed possible, and I think he might have been in line for comeback player of the year if he would have stayed healthy.

I was actually hoping that the Bears might pick him up when Tampa let him go, because he was at least exciting to watch.

And Yes I know this is counter to the entire argument that I have been presenting, so.....