I am all in on rebuild

[CSF77]

Here is their view point. At 58M. Add 20M for retention. Keep Happ in LF because he is cheap. Then flip him. Sign Cron and flip him. Sign Pax and flip him.

So basically 80M then add 20M For 100M. Maybe 10 more for the pen.110M.

Ya that will kill the box office.

Here is what I believe should happen.

Tom tell Jed. Spend to generate excitement or go find a new gig.

Jed says ok. Who do you want?

Tom: Castellanos and a pitcher to match Kyle.

Jed: well that should cost you 50M per. Are you sure?

Tom: as a heart attack.

Jed: ok I get on the horn with some agents. Any pitcher on particular?

Tom: Marquez is still fighting a bum shoulder?

Jed: It is improving. But he has lost two years. I would feel better giving him a full year in lower pressure games before tossing him in the fire.

Tom: Fair enough. Get me a lefty.

Jed: ok there are a few available.

Tom: I don't want Shaw. His arm will fall off soon. He is not the same guy. We already went down that road with Jon.

Jed: ok, how much risk are you willing to take on?

Tom: define risk? Like signing a injury risk or a guy that was injured type. Option 2. Any pitcher can get injured on any pitch. Just make sure to get them medically cleared. And no I am not paying for acguys rehab again. I was not smiling when Smiley was banking on pine.

Jed: got it.

 

[CSF77]

“I don't know what the definition of a ‘rebuild’ is,” said Hoyer, when pressed on the Cubs’ path forward. “I think you should wait until after you see what we do this winter to decide what we're going to do. I don’t know what we’re going to do yet. So, no one knows what we’re going to do yet. We're going to sit down and figure out the right path to try to build a championship team.” -- Jordan Bastian

 

[CSF77]

Here is a hint. Sign some studds and filter in around them. Take the pressure off of unproven talent to lead the way.

The last build was the same thing. Signed Jon, John, Zobrist, Fowler. Then filtered Bryant, Baez ETC around them.

The worst thing to do is strip it bare and expect unproven to lead the way. Or go cheap and sign bench scrub vets and let the kids play. You end up with unrealistic expections and plenty of failure.

Be smart. Spend. Create a back bone then let the system filter up.

 

[Diehardfan]

“I don't know what the definition of a ‘rebuild’ is,” said Hoyer, when pressed on the Cubs’ path forward. “I think you should wait until after you see what we do this winter to decide what we're going to do. I don’t know what we’re going to do yet. So, no one knows what we’re going to do yet. We're going to sit down and figure out the right path to try to build a championship team.” -- Jordan Bastian

Ok, they built one championship team....now they have to build another. Isn't that the definition of the word "rebuild"?
I sure hope Hoyer is a better GM than he is at knowing the English language.

 

[TL1961]

So basically 80M then add 20M For 100M. Maybe 10 more for the pen.110M.

Ya that will kill the box office.

Here is what I believe should happen.

Tom tell Jed. Spend to generate excitement or go find a new gig.

Jed says ok. Who do you want?

Tom: Castellanos and a pitcher to match Kyle.

Jed: well that should cost you 50M per. Are you sure?

Tom: as a heart attack.

Jed: ok I get on the horn with some agents. Any pitcher on particular?

Tom: Marquez is still fighting a bum shoulder?

Jed: It is improving. But he has lost two years. I would feel better giving him a full year in lower pressure games before tossing him in the fire.

Tom: Fair enough. Get me a lefty.

Jed: ok there are a few available.

Tom: I don't want Shaw. His arm will fall off soon. He is not the same guy. We already went down that road with Jon.

Jed: ok, how much risk are you willing to take on?

Tom: define risk? Like signing a injury risk or a guy that was injured type. Option 2. Any pitcher can get injured on any pitch. Just make sure to get them medically cleared. And no I am not paying for acguys rehab again. I was not smiling when Smiley was banking on pine.

Jed: got it.

It’s interesting that they come to the same conclusion you do: It all centers around one man and one man only: Nick Castellanos

 

[JP Hochbaum]

Here is their view point. At 58M. Add 20M for retention. Keep Happ in LF because he is cheap. Then flip him. Sign Cron and flip him. Sign Pax and flip him.

So basically 80M then add 20M For 100M. Maybe 10 more for the pen.110M.

Ya that will kill the box office.

Here is what I believe should happen.

Tom tell Jed. Spend to generate excitement or go find a new gig.

Jed says ok. Who do you want?

Tom: Castellanos and a pitcher to match Kyle.

Jed: well that should cost you 50M per. Are you sure?

Tom: as a heart attack.

Jed: ok I get on the horn with some agents. Any pitcher on particular?

Tom: Marquez is still fighting a bum shoulder?

Jed: It is improving. But he has lost two years. I would feel better giving him a full year in lower pressure games before tossing him in the fire.

Tom: Fair enough. Get me a lefty.

Jed: ok there are a few available.

Tom: I don't want Shaw. His arm will fall off soon. He is not the same guy. We already went down that road with Jon.

Jed: ok, how much risk are you willing to take on?

Tom: define risk? Like signing a injury risk or a guy that was injured type. Option 2. Any pitcher can get injured on any pitch. Just make sure to get them medically cleared. And no I am not paying for acguys rehab again. I was not smiling when Smiley was banking on pine.

Jed: got it.

These conversations you imagine are quite fascinating. But I think your opinions on what is happening are better suited for fiction short stories.

 

[finderd]

@CSF77: I see it too!

find a word​

 

[CSF77]

These conversations you imagine are quite fascinating. But I think your opinions on what is happening are better suited for fiction short stories.

Fan fiction is the best.

But to be honest Jed can drop 140M on this team over the winter. The opinion that MLBTR is wrong. They act like Jed will be forced to flip year in and out and that is not the case. He has 4 players in AA that can be a part of the next gen. He has some working pieces in hand. All he needs is really 3 big names then stablize the pen.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

Fan fiction is the best.

But to be honest Jed can drop 140M on this team over the winter. The opinion that MLBTR is wrong. They act like Jed will be forced to flip year in and out and that is not the case. He has 4 players in AA that can be a part of the next gen. He has some working pieces in hand. All he needs is really 3 big names then stablize the pen.

I mean yeah I agree, the team needs to spend. Without saying who they should sign, they should sign a mix of guys on long term deals who will be able to make us compete and 1-2 year deals on flips. Keep us interested and also keep building the farm.

Judging by recent words it really seems KB can be targeted on a 7 year deal. IMO, he won't regress a lot at ages 32-36 so you can overpay now and have declining salary when he declines.

 

[CSF77]

I mean yeah I agree, the team needs to spend. Without saying who they should sign, they should sign a mix of guys on long term deals who will be able to make us compete and 1-2 year deals on flips. Keep us interested and also keep building the farm.

Judging by recent words it really seems KB can be targeted on a 7 year deal. IMO, he won't regress a lot at ages 32-36 so you can overpay now and have declining salary when he declines.

I would avoid the 3 guys lost. Turn the page. With them they still stunk.

On buying flips: If Bryant, Rizzo and Baez combined netted 0 top 100 players and it took a add in to even get a prospect close to it, what is renting to flip going to get you? The same or less.

That is why that is a flawed plan.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

I would avoid the 3 guys lost. Turn the page. With them they still stunk.

On buying flips: If Bryant, Rizzo and Baez combined netted 0 top 100 players and it took a add in to even get a prospect close to it, what is renting to flip going to get you? The same or less.

That is why that is a flawed plan.

It is a numbers game, you want to do that as much as possible. It isn't about developing the entire farm, it is also about having the depth to be able to trade them in the future.

 

[CSF77]

It is a numbers game, you want to do that as much as possible. It isn't about developing the entire farm, it is also about having the depth to be able to trade them in the future.

I see the farm as cost control. Either by playing them down the road or trade good to get proven players that are more affordable that the open market.

Right now Jed has a great power in his hands. That is a payroll that he can push up to 190M and having a low current commitment.

So I would say it is a mandate to attack the offseason with these resources and build towards 2022. 2025 will happen when it does. But that is putting the cart in front if the horse if your goal is 2025 and 2022-2024 are wasted years. That will create a loss at the box. The fan base has been down that road and this time the only excuse is frugal owner vs funding a park rebuild.

 

[mattb78]

2017: No starter with a sub 3.00 ERA and only only starter below 3.5
2018: Hamels have a good partial season below 3.0 ERA and 2 starters below 3.5
2019: 1 starter below 3.5 ERA

I don't see this as great starting pitching at all. We caught Lester at the end of his career, Darvish was basically a bust. Hamels had one good half season.

Not saying we didn't have a chance but its not like we had a really good 1-2 punch in the playoffs out of the starting rotation.

 

[Chicagosports89]

2017: No starter with a sub 3.00 ERA and only only starter below 3.5
2018: Hamels have a good partial season below 3.0 ERA and 2 starters below 3.5
2019: 1 starter below 3.5 ERA

I don't see this as great starting pitching at all. We caught Lester at the end of his career, Darvish was basically a bust. Hamels had one good half season.

Not saying we didn't have a chance but its not like we had a really good 1-2 punch in the playoffs out of the starting rotation.

Howd our hitting do in the playoffs

 

[Zvbxrpl]

I'm in for a full rebuild as well. A 3-5 year plan/ripping it down to the studs as opposed to a 0-2 year because in 2011 when the cubs just drafted Baez/Vogelbach and had nothing else unless you're going to count Chris Carpenter who was traded for Theo or Brett Jackson (LOL)--there are better talent prospects already in the system with the immediate ability to get another 1-3 intriguing specs if you shop Hendricks/Contreras/Davies this winter before another 1-2 next summer, assuming a FA signing to flip on a 1-2 year deal at pitcher like maybe Rodon or Paxton if his medicals are right.

I want to see if Jed is going to do what he/Theo did a decade ago or try to do what Hahn just did across town and build BOTH high obp hitters with defense and pitching in the draft. Knowing the cubs, its the former and money will be available to buy big-name pitchers because for the last decade, they couldn't even luck into developing a pitcher, let alone a key piece of a rotation/bullpen.

It's all great praise and positivity for names drafted before we never seemingly hear their names/see them on the big club roster (or other rosters short of Dylan Cease), but we hear great things about what they did in college and what they're doing at low/high A ball.

Hopefully, Kantrovitz fixes that and finds a kid or three who can develop into a mid-rotation guy--I'll settle for at this point. The 'throw buckets of shit at a wall and hope something sticks' hasn't worked for the past decade...

 

[CSF77]

I'm in for a full rebuild as well. A 3-5 year plan/ripping it down to the studs as opposed to a 0-2 year because in 2011 when the cubs just drafted Baez/Vogelbach and had nothing else unless you're going to count Chris Carpenter who was traded for Theo or Brett Jackson (LOL)--there are better talent prospects already in the system with the immediate ability to get another 1-3 intriguing specs if you shop Hendricks/Contreras/Davies this winter before another 1-2 next summer, assuming a FA signing to flip on a 1-2 year deal at pitcher like maybe Rodon or Paxton if his medicals are right.

I want to see if Jed is going to do what he/Theo did a decade ago or try to do what Hahn just did across town and build BOTH high obp hitters with defense and pitching in the draft. Knowing the cubs, its the former and money will be available to buy big-name pitchers because for the last decade, they couldn't even luck into developing a pitcher, let alone a key piece of a rotation/bullpen.

It's all great praise and positivity for names drafted before we never seemingly hear their names/see them on the big club roster (or other rosters short of Dylan Cease), but we hear great things about what they did in college and what they're doing at low/high A ball.

Hopefully, Kantrovitz fixes that and finds a kid or three who can develop into a mid-rotation guy--I'll settle for at this point. The 'throw buckets of shit at a wall and hope something sticks' hasn't worked for the past decade...

Steel has a 1.32 ERA in Iowa and is starting. Up to 5 Innings now and gave up a run. I really like him as a 2nd lefty right now.

Thompson pitches on Thursday. He is up to 3 innings.

Marquez shoulder injury. Out. No word on if he will return.

So I am expecting status que until Iowa ends it's season and Steel and Thompson brought up. Adbert most likely shut down due to innings.

Now on a complete rip down? Well they are pretty much there. Contreras and Hendricks are the only ones with trade value right now. The fact that Jed didn't trade them tells me that they are in the plans.

So going into next year we pretty much know it will be Hendricks, Alzolay, Mills, Steel and Thompson.

That is doing nothing.

Team wise:

Lead off most likely a platoon of Ortega and Fargas. Both has decent SB year in the minors.
#2 hitter Nick Madrigal Davis most likely pushes Contreras down for him.
#3 as of now it is Happ. And that blows. They need to replace Rizzo pretty bad here.
#4 Wisdom seems to found a home here. That is fine. Going forward hard to tell.
#5 Contreras should hit here. Give Wisdom some protection.
#6 Heyward has hit here and I would stick with him as the cash justifies it and there is not a log jam ATM
#7 Nico when he returns. Alcantara can barely hit his body weight.
#8 Duffy, Bote, Schwindel and so on. All trash. Yet again another upgrade spot.


I'm going to disagree with your statement based on one logic Flaw. The Ricketts had to pay back the loan and fund the park rebuild for years. Theo decided to push the reset button and it was acceptable because of the revenue stream filtering into infrastructure.

Chicago Cubs revenue 2022 | Statista

In 2022, the revenue of the Chicago Cubs amounted to 451 million U.S.

www.statista.com

Million US​

2011 266​

2012 274​

2013 266​

2014 302​

2015 340​

2016 434​

2017 457​

2018 452​

2019 471​

Ya this is the reality of the situation. 2020 revenues dropped to 163M We are talking 2003-2004 revenues.

That is why Jed had to start the ejection. He tried to offer market value (arguable) and all 3 turned down so he sold the ship.

But look above. Tom was making 470 Million per season with the Cubs being a winning product. As a losing product 275-302 Million

So he is looking at losing 150-200 Million in revenues if Jed pulls the plug and tanks.

That is why I have been trying to get through to some of you guys/gals. Tom will lose more than he would have to spend. It is fiscally irresponsible to tank at this point.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

So going into next year we pretty much know it will be Hendricks, Alzolay, Mills, Steel and Thompson.

No, we really don't. Maybe let's let winter/FA happen first before we assume anything?

Watch Jed buy low on a starter or two and try to flip them at the deadline.

I promise you, you're allowed to be critical of an aspect of team development (specifically pitching) and see that the cubs have utterly failed for the better part of the last decade. I want them to be better. I know everybody here does. But again--the cubs can't luck into a TOR starter, and have Alzolay to show for middling homegrown pitching talent as a starter, along with James Norwood as a pen piece. Everything else has been bought FAs or reclamation projects (some successful, some not) and some castaways.

That's awful. You're allowed to say that.

I'm going to disagree with your statement based on one logic Flaw. The Ricketts had to pay back the loan and fund the park rebuild for years. Theo decided to push the reset button and it was acceptable because of the revenue stream filtering into infrastructure.

LOL what? When did I bring up the Ricketts? What are you talking about?

Did Theo reset because Ricketts had to pay back a loan and the billionaire had to "tighten the belt" or did the cubs' farm system led by Josh Vitters, Trey McNutt, Brett Jackson, Hak ju Lee, Hayden Sampson, Vogelbach, and Baez need desperate revitalization, direction, and vision on top of an over-the-hill line up of old players like DLee, Aramis, Soriano, Dempster, with one nice homegrown piece in Samarzdija have a window from 06-08 get shut and they were in middling baseball hell--where they couldn't make the playoffs or get a top draft pick?

When Theo took over, the house needed tearing down to the studs and rebuilding.

Now on a complete rip down? Well they are pretty much there. Contreras and Hendricks are the only ones with trade value right now. The fact that Jed didn't trade them tells me that they are in the plans.

Did you even read the first sentence of my post? I said I'm for a full rebuild.

Contreras and Hendricks, as opposed to KB, Rizzo, and Baez--are under contract for next year (Hendricks through 2024), so saying "they're in the future plans" is a big assumption to make when you're a middling team and 3 guys who aren't extending would be gone without something in return and the price you would put on Hendricks/Willy specifically wasn't met because of contract.

 

[CSF77]

Dude there was many diffrencesin 2012 and 2021.

1. New owenership.
2. New Management team.
3. Resources diverted.
4. Revenues at 266M vs 471M

Come on now.

When Jed walked in in 2012 he cleaned house. Some of rhe moves were dumb. Like trading LeMaheu for a bucket of balls. Signing E.Jax.

Ya they for the most part sucked. The got lucky that Houston passed on Bryant.

But seeing how thwy took Starlin and forced change on him and he started to suck after.

Then they got into a box. Draft college hitters and pitchers. No leverage. Then mid round over pay on HS.

The dynamic changed with Davis. He was the first guy picked out of high school based off of potential. Howard followed. Then Wicks a pitcher ranked in the top 16 that Jed passed on in the past.

So change. The pen also showed that change. We already went over that so you can necro it. But that has been addressed.

So your arguement is true but it lacks a understanding that improvents have been implemented starting back in 2019. It takes time to fill the up with talent. Work in progress.

But the biggest reason why Jed should invest? Because the Cubs are not poor like the White Sox and are forced to strip it down to the bone because 190M per with break the bank.

190M is the loss at the box Tom is looking at. His revenues would fall in to the cavat that the Sox are stuck in with potentally no way out.


I have to look at this form a reality perspective.

Cub fans are a bit pissed right now. Team torn apart. Scrubs on the field. They would rather enjiy their summer versus was games that don't mean shit.

Take our threads. After the deadline no IGT. Why bother? That is bad for business.

Baseball is not like football or basketball. People are at home in the cold and looking to be entertained. It is more natural to watch a game then.

Durring the summer? Well camping, beach and so on. There is more activity and watching a game has to have a driver pushing the needle.

So you tell me? Is it smart to pull the plug? 3 years is a long time and there is no guarentee that they will come back.

Not to mentuon if you spend 100M. You increase revenue by 200M. Why would you not invest it.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

Dude there was many diffrencesin 2012 and 2021.

1. New owenership.
2. New Management team.
3. Resources diverted.
4. Revenues at 266M vs 471M

Come on now.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the direction of the rebuild and how to form the next team, right now. You're the only one talking about money and finance here, mixed in with some assumptions like Justin Steele and Thompson being locks for the rotation next year and Hendricks/Contreras being long-term pieces to keep when they're under contract next year when the guys just traded weren't--which I don't agree with/said "lets let the winter happen first."

And again, you response demonstrates that you struggle to actually read what I wrote, so let's try this again. I am in favor of a full rebuild. With the farm system NOW as opposed to 2012--the cubs are in a better spot talent-wise as they start the rebuild, I'm not oblivious to that.

It will absolutely be different, as you pointed out--there may not be a Kris Bryant level offensive talent when the cubs have a top 3-5 pick, probably in 2023/2024--and if there is, a team or 2 ahead of them may not pass on him this time.

So your arguement is true but it lacks a understanding that improvents have been implemented starting back in 2019. It takes time to fill the up with talent. Work in progress.

When did I say that I expect the farm to be filled up with talent yesterday?

I didn't. In my first post, #35 of the thread--literally my 2nd sentence of the 1st paragraph: I have expectations of a 3-5 year rebuild. You're just making shit up I didn't say just to argue with it before you say I lack understanding.

I asked will Jed repeat what he/Theo did a decade ago--focusing specifically on 2 way offensive players with high OBPs with the top pick of the draft/international signings or will he do what Rick Hahn across town did and draft/sign internationally BOTH 2 way offensive players with high OBP AND pitching.

The direction of drafts during this rebuild is absolutely something worth talking about IMO--but you felt the need to respond by bringing up revenues from a decade ago versus now which has nothing to do with it.

You acknowledge my point about full rebuild--meaning revenue only matters as it affects future payroll--and I don't see the cubs adding big payroll in the next couple of years. I'd like to see them send Heyward away, but nobody is taking his $$$ and the cubs gotta convince him to waive his 10/5 rights.

I have reservations about the cubs ability to draft/develop pitching with Jed/McLeod because those two have produced James Norwood and Adbert Alzolay. Do you want me to add Cease? Sure. Over a decade's worth of drafting--that's still fucking embarrassing. I hope Kantrovitz changes that, but I have doubts.

Cub fans are a bit pissed right now. Team torn apart. Scrubs on the field. They would rather enjiy their summer versus was games that don't mean shit.

Take our threads. After the deadline no IGT. Why bother? That is bad for business.

Baseball is not like football or basketball. People are at home in the cold and looking to be entertained. It is more natural to watch a game then.

Durring the summer? Well camping, beach and so on. There is more activity and watching a game has to have a driver pushing the needle.

So you tell me? Is it smart to pull the plug? 3 years is a long time and there is no guarentee that they will come back.

Not to mentuon if you spend 100M. You increase revenue by 200M. Why would you not invest it.

I'm confused. Truly.

In your post #36, you talk about the lineup going forward and how 2 spots need improving, #3 and #8--but now you say 'scrubs on the field.' Pick a lane.

I don't need a lecture on baseball/how to build a team versus football/basketball/hockey/etc. I'm perfectly aware how baseball is not an 'instant gratification' sport, especially when it comes to the minor leagues. Now that you etched yet another counterpoint to nothing I said, can we get back to what I was actually talking about?

Furthermore, is it smart to pull the plug on what? Trying to contend with a team that can't given what the rest of the NL and AL are doing? Yes. Pull the plug on a rebuild? No.

When did I say to spend 100$ million? Again--I didn't. You just threw that number and $200 million in revenue gained for no reason as a response to nothing I posed.

FWIW (and I have doubts about your reading comprehension here) I want/expect to see a FA pitcher or two signing, like ROdon or Paxton--guys who wont get big $$$/are reclamation/injury projects--to hopefully get them red hot before flipping them at the deadline--which is what the cubs did a decade ago during THAT rebuild. Willy and Hendricks are also candidates to be shopped for prospects.

 

[CSF77]

There is a reason why t1

This has absolutely nothing to do with the direction of the rebuild and how to form the next team, right now. You're the only one talking about money and finance here, mixed in with some assumptions like Justin Steele and Thompson being locks for the rotation next year and Hendricks/Contreras being long-term pieces to keep when they're under contract next year when the guys just traded weren't--which I don't agree with/said "lets let the winter happen first."

And again, you response demonstrates that you struggle to actually read what I wrote, so let's try this again. I am in favor of a full rebuild. With the farm system NOW as opposed to 2012--the cubs are in a better spot talent-wise as they start the rebuild, I'm not oblivious to that.

It will absolutely be different, as you pointed out--there may not be a Kris Bryant level offensive talent when the cubs have a top 3-5 pick, probably in 2023/2024--and if there is, a team or 2 ahead of them may not pass on him this time.

When did I say that I expect the farm to be filled up with talent yesterday?

I didn't. In my first post, #35 of the thread--literally my 2nd sentence of the 1st paragraph: I have expectations of a 3-5 year rebuild. You're just making shit up I didn't say just to argue with it before you say I lack understanding.

I asked will Jed repeat what he/Theo did a decade ago--focusing specifically on 2 way offensive players with high OBPs with the top pick of the draft/international signings or will he do what Rick Hahn across town did and draft/sign internationally BOTH 2 way offensive players with high OBP AND pitching.

The direction of drafts during this rebuild is absolutely something worth talking about IMO--but you felt the need to respond by bringing up revenues from a decade ago versus now which has nothing to do with it.

You acknowledge my point about full rebuild--meaning revenue only matters as it affects future payroll--and I don't see the cubs adding big payroll in the next couple of years. I'd like to see them send Heyward away, but nobody is taking his $$$ and the cubs gotta convince him to waive his 10/5 rights.

I have reservations about the cubs ability to draft/develop pitching with Jed/McLeod because those two have produced James Norwood and Adbert Alzolay. Do you want me to add Cease? Sure. Over a decade's worth of drafting--that's still fucking embarrassing. I hope Kantrovitz changes that, but I have doubts.


I'm confused. Truly.

In your post #36, you talk about the lineup going forward and how 2 spots need improving, #3 and #8--but now you say 'scrubs on the field.' Pick a lane.

I don't need a lecture on baseball/how to build a team versus football/basketball/hockey/etc. I'm perfectly aware how baseball is not an 'instant gratification' sport, especially when it comes to the minor leagues. Now that you etched yet another counterpoint to nothing I said, can we get back to what I was actually talking about?

Furthermore, is it smart to pull the plug on what? Trying to contend with a team that can't given what the rest of the NL and AL are doing? Yes. Pull the plug on a rebuild? No.

When did I say to spend 100$ million? Again--I didn't. You just threw that number and $200 million in revenue gained for no reason as a response to nothing I posed.

FWIW (and I have doubts about your reading comprehension here) I want/expect to see a FA pitcher or two signing, like ROdon or Paxton--guys who wont get big $$$/are reclamation/injury projects--to hopefully get them red hot before flipping them at the deadline--which is what the cubs did a decade ago during THAT rebuild. Willy and Hendricks are also candidates to be shopped for prospects.

First part.

2012 was Hendry's work. Jed came in with a fire hose and blew it out with out proper evauation. The system now is his. For good or bad. AAA he has historically used for injury replacements. AA was the buck stops here. The last time that Iowa had legit talent was when Bryant and the rest were upwelling.

2nd part. You expect a 3-5 year rebuild. I countered with that 3-5 year plan will cause a loss at the box. From the history of Cubs revenues over the last 10 years it is very sigifacant.

Now are you saying spend and contend while building the farm? If so well you are 100% on the same page as me and the Dodgers and the Red Sox and the Giants and the Yankees. These team do not plan to suck for years. Why do you ask? Because they can afford to spend to not suck.

Now if you are saying buy rent a flips and play to lose while bull shitting the fan base. Well like I said fans have other things to do then see a bad team and will spend elsewhere.