I am all in on rebuild

[knoxville7]

I know there was a deal with him in his time as a Cub. Joe was all about it. Well Joe is a bit weird also. But ya know weird is cool. Crazy is not.

he very well may be a different type of cat, I have no clue. What I do recall, was in his short time as a cub he basically single handily carried the offense down the stretch. Cuz you know, Bryant, rizzo, Baez, etc went cold down the stretch, like they are one to do.

it’s amazing, some people that are upset about moving on from guys that didn’t produce down the stretch, are the same that are now saying “move on” to the idea of getting a real hitter

 

[Diehardfan]

That is not going to happen going forward.

High risk high reward.

Low risk low reward.

Rodon holds less risk than Thor does right now. Thor is always injured. He has no current run of sucess.

Rodon has that. And yes he will be paid. Teams will check medicals like normal. Most likely there will be caution involved but he will be paid.

I see the top RHP for a long deal as Stroman.

The top short term deal Max.

Top LHP long deal Rodon

Top LHP short deal Kershaw.

That is what the market will be.

Thor will return as a pen arm and with his track record he would market best as a closer on 3 year deals. Save his arm

Rodon on the other hand. Ya if he came out avg. Boras would have had a hard sale. But as is he is getting a rest. Then come back for a tune up then push for the play offs.

At the end of the day. The White Sox are not a contender with out him. That is pretty much the reality of it. I dont see them wanting to deal with Boras. I see teams shying away out of fear. So Jed may only have the big baller teams like the Yankees who spit in the eye of coward talk.

You got an inside line to your boy, Hoyer? Best part of it is that all these long winded posts add up to a big pile of shit. You know as does everyone here....that 95% of the shit you come up with fails to happen. All these signings, trades....just drool rolling out of the side of your mouth.

 

[CSF77]

he very well may be a different type of cat, I have no clue. What I do recall, was in his short time as a cub he basically single handily carried the offense down the stretch. Cuz you know, Bryant, rizzo, Baez, etc went cold down the stretch, like they are one to do.

it’s amazing, some people that are upset about moving on from guys that didn’t produce down the stretch, are the same that are now saying “move on” to the idea of getting a real hitter

He is ranked #26 in fWAR for hitters. 3.3. That is what I care about. That is someone to build around. Taking into consideration his D value is dislike that is all bat and glove is dragging down value. I can see 8/200 locking him up.

Seager IMO comes with more risk. 1 fWAR. Off injury. Injured a few times. But we are talking about a 3 fWAR player healthy right now. Age wise 28 YO is about perfect going forward. D wise post injury in 2018 not the same guy. 3B would benefit him. He might get a 10 year offer. I would think that he would be close to Machado but come up short due to injuries. 10/250 might be his target.

Belt 1.5 fWAR. D dislike value year after year. Bat plus year after year. Basically getting a 2nd tier player that walks 15% and strikes out 25%. I would say 20 HR power in Wrigg vs the monster he plays in. 34 at time of contract. Twlight deal for him. I see 3-4 years 15 AAV. About what Theo paid Zobrist and that is what you are getting.

 

[Chicagosports89]

He is ranked #26 in fWAR for hitters. 3.3. That is what I care about. That is someone to build around. Taking into consideration his D value is dislike that is all bat and glove is dragging down value. I can see 8/200 locking him up.

Seager IMO comes with more risk. 1 fWAR. Off injury. Injured a few times. But we are talking about a 3 fWAR player healthy right now. Age wise 28 YO is about perfect going forward. D wise post injury in 2018 not the same guy. 3B would benefit him. He might get a 10 year offer. I would think that he would be close to Machado but come up short due to injuries. 10/250 might be his target.

Belt 1.5 fWAR. D dislike value year after year. Bat plus year after year. Basically getting a 2nd tier player that walks 15% and strikes out 25%. I would say 20 HR power in Wrigg vs the monster he plays in. 34 at time of contract. Twlight deal for him. I see 3-4 years 15 AAV. About what Theo paid Zobrist and that is what you are getting.

I dont think there is any chance in hell Castellanos gets 8 years or seager gets 10 years

 

[CSF77]

You got an inside line to your boy, Hoyer? Best part of it is that all these long winded posts add up to a big pile of shit. You know as does everyone here....that 95% of the shit you come up with fails to happen. All these signings, trades....just drool rolling out of the side of your mouth.

I always post a I want to see thread. And what I expect to happen version.

When the cash flows and the names get bigger it is what I would like to see happen. And I justify it with payroll. Yes this team can dump 180M and draw in big name talent. The talent that Jed got is 3-5 years out. He needs to put a product out today.

That said I "feel" that Jed should go for it. He has the pay roll to do so and it shows bad faith to the fan base to pull the plug and leave them dangling for 3 years. While expecting them to fill the stadium. It never happens.

Last home game pre deadline: 32,793.

Sox series (well sox fans but W/E 39,539
Rodon's 11 K game 40,077
39,412 (Do the Sox get these numbers at home? Real question)
Brewers 29,031
28,674
29,619
32,502

It is pretty amazing how 30K will still go out and see a pile of trash. Amazing. But the real bits. 40K see a team worth rooting for.

The true test will happen when the Fish come in. 2 teams fighting for suckiest team. And the Cubs get swept again.

But I see the box dropping until the Sox come in again. Giants should get some KB fan girl love day. About it.

 

[CSF77]

I dont think there is any chance in hell Castellanos gets 8 years or seager gets 10 years

IDK man. Teams do that. 10 for Seager puts him at 38. 8 for Nick. 37-38. I can see many teams doing that. I see the Giants locking up Bryant until he is 40.

Active[edit]​

This is a dynamic list and may never be able to satisfy particular standards for completeness. You can help by adding missing items with reliable sources.

Player	Pos	Birth date	Age	Team(s) played (years)	Ref.
Albert Pujols	1B	January 16, 1980	41 years, 209 days	show 3 teams	[42]​
Rich Hill	P	March 11, 1980	41 years, 155 days	show 11 teams	[43]​
Nelson Cruz	DH	July 1, 1980	41 years, 43 days	show 6 teams	[44]​
Adam Wainwright	P	August 30, 1981	39 years, 348 days	St. Louis Cardinals (2005–2010, 2012–present)	[45]​
Yadier Molina	C	July 13, 1982	39 years, 31 days	St. Louis Cardinals (2004–present)	[46]​
J. A. Happ	P	October 19, 1982	38 years, 298 days	show 8 teams	[47]​
Robinson Canó	2B	October 22, 1982	38 years, 295 days	show 3 teams	[48]​
Darren O'Day	P	October 22, 1982	38 years, 295 days	show 6 teams	[49]​
Ervin Santana	P	December 12, 1982	38 years, 244 days	show 5 teams	[50]​
Justin Verlander	P	February 20, 1983	38 years, 174 days	show 2 teams	[51]​
Sergio Romo	P	March 4, 1983	38 years, 162 days	show 6 teams	[52]​
Miguel Cabrera	1B/DH	April 18, 1983	38 years, 117 days	show 2 teams	[53]​
René Rivera	C	July 31, 1983	38 years, 13 days	show 10 teams	[54]​
Brett Gardner	OF	August 24, 1983	37 years, 354 days	New York Yankees (2008–present)	[55]​
Joey Votto	1B	September 10, 1983	37 years, 337 days	Cincinnati Reds (2007–present)	[56]​
Kurt Suzuki	C	October 4, 1983	37 years, 313 days	show 5 teams	[57]​
Zack Greinke	P	October 21, 1983	37 years, 296 days	show 6 teams	[58]​
Charlie Morton	P	November 12, 1983	37 years, 274 days	show 5 teams	[59]​
Jon Lester	P	January 7, 1984	37 years, 218 days	show 5 teams	[60]​
Craig Stammen	P	March 9, 1984	37 years, 157 days	show 2 teams	[61]​
Joe Smith	P	March 22, 1984	37 years, 144 days	show 7 teams	[62]​
Jed Lowrie	2B	April 17, 1984	37 years, 118 days	show 4 teams	[63]​

 

[CSF77]

Shoot Cruz at 41 is a better hitter than most of MLB. Just saying. Age is a state of mind. I was in my best shape in my lower 40's. 50's now and still hit the gym. Joints ache more but W/E.

 

[knoxville7]

Shoot Cruz at 41 is a better hitter than most of MLB. Just saying. Age is a state of mind. I was in my best shape in my lower 40's. 50's now and still hit the gym. Joints ache more but W/E.

too bad you don’t have a position you can play

 

[CSF77]

too bad you don’t have a position you can play

U funny. The whole point is 40 is not old. I guess if you choke down beers and brats and have to get a mirror to see your best friend it would be pretty bad.

 

[CSF77]

 

[Adipost]

Speaking of the romper room. 11-1 ass smacking. Look out here comes a solid pick in a year that there is no stand out #1.

Elijah Green is being compared to Ronald Acuna Jr. But MLB could also very realistically institute a draft lottery beginning next season.

 

[CSF77]

Elijah Green is being compared to Ronald Acuna Jr. But MLB could also very realistically institute a draft lottery beginning next season.

They need to force teams to try to not suck. Eventually there will be 4 teams over 100 wins every year soaking the wins off the real battle going on for the lotto.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

Rodon 29 years old 7 year deal 140 million:

My good man, what do I have to do to get your weed guy's info?

This is absurd. He's back on IL with throwing arm "soreness."

1 year deal, 8-12 mil with incentives that can take it to the neighborhood of 15. Club option for same amount to make it 2 years.

Whereas Correa, can be moved to 5-6 different spots

How? Where?

His whole career he's been a DH (usually coming back from injury) or a SS. Where are you moving Hoerner/Madrigal to?

I would look at Eric Hosmer from SD to play 1B.

Lets just look at it.

Seager 27.5M
Rondon 27.5M
Castellanos 27.5M
Belt 17.5M

It's like Jed (and Theo/McLeod) came in to stop running a team like Jim Hendry, paying top dollar to guys on the wrong side of 30 (sans Seager) for maybe 1-2 years of contention when Jed literally said that isn't what he's going to do after he traded Baez, Rizzo, KB, and Kimbrel...

And y'all want Jim Hendry to come back with these ideas.

Doubling Castellanos' present salary when he still can't play defense?

27.5 mil for Seager, who's declined when he hasn't been hurt since 2017, oh and he's missed a lot of time last/this year?

27.5 Mil a year for Rodon?

Can I get your weed guy's info? This board is where its at...

 

[JP Hochbaum]

My good man, what do I have to do to get your weed guy's info?

This is absurd. He's back on IL with throwing arm "soreness."

1 year deal, 8-12 mil with incentives that can take it to the neighborhood of 15. Club option for same amount to make it 2 years.

How? Where?

His whole career he's been a DH (usually coming back from injury) or a SS. Where are you moving Hoerner/Madrigal to?

View attachment 13061



It's like Jed (and Theo/McLeod) came in to stop running a team like Jim Hendry, paying top dollar to guys on the wrong side of 30 (sans Seager) for maybe 1-2 years of contention when Jed literally said that isn't what he's going to do after he traded Baez, Rizzo, KB, and Kimbrel...

And y'all want Jim Hendry to come back with these ideas.

Doubling Castellanos' present salary when he still can't play defense?

27.5 mil for Seager, who's declined when he hasn't been hurt since 2017, oh and he's missed a lot of time last/this year?

27.5 Mil a year for Rodon?

Can I get your weed guy's info? This board is where its at...

My good man, what do I have to do to get your weed guy's info?

This is absurd. He's back on IL with throwing arm "soreness."

1 year deal, 8-12 mil with incentives that can take it to the neighborhood of 15. Club option for same amount to make it 2 years.

How? Where?

His whole career he's been a DH (usually coming back from injury) or a SS. Where are you moving Hoerner/Madrigal to?

View attachment 13061



It's like Jed (and Theo/McLeod) came in to stop running a team like Jim Hendry, paying top dollar to guys on the wrong side of 30 (sans Seager) for maybe 1-2 years of contention when Jed literally said that isn't what he's going to do after he traded Baez, Rizzo, KB, and Kimbrel...

And y'all want Jim Hendry to come back with these ideas.

Doubling Castellanos' present salary when he still can't play defense?

27.5 mil for Seager, who's declined when he hasn't been hurt since 2017, oh and he's missed a lot of time last/this year?

27.5 Mil a year for Rodon?

Can I get your weed guy's info? This board is where its at...

You are doing some nice cherry picking there, Correa played two games at DH and all others at short stop, shorts stops can play any position on the field except catcher and pitcher. This is why Theoyer has drafted so many. And While ROdon is hurt again his major injuries are largely behind him. Most pitchers go on occasional DL stints.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

shorts stops can play any position on the field except catcher and pitcher

That's right! I forgot about all those gold gloves Baez earned at 1b, LF, RF, CF, and 3B during his time here.

Not to be crude--but just because one or two guys (like Bryant) CAN play multiple positions--does not mean everybody can or will. And if you're Correa--are you signing your big deal to play 5-6 spots or just the one you've dominated your whole career? If the cubs or any team approach you about playing 5-6 spots defensively--and you entertain talks with them--don't you think your price tag goes up exponentially to agree to take on more responsibility because of your defensive flexibility?

Not doubting the bat--at all. Would love the bat in the lineup. Very much doubt if you sign him--he plays more than just SS. Means you have to move one of him, Hoerner, or Madrigal because all 3 can't be MI at the same time.

And While ROdon is hurt again his major injuries are largely behind him. Most pitchers go on occasional DL stints.

He's only cracked 20 starts per year 3x, and he entered the league in 2015. He's eclipsed 25 starts in a year only 1x, in 2016. 111 career starts in his now 7th year. To put it nicely--that's more than "the occasional DL stint."

We aren't talking about an ace of the rotation, here either. This year has been his best in the career until July and he's been regressing since (except last week against this AA lineup).

Giving him 2 years is a big gamble. Giving him 7 you may as well just up payroll to over 200 mil, because you'll have a few anchors with him and Heyward who aren't going to produce what you're paying them.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

You do realize that almost every short stop never stays at short stop right, not unless they remain a gold glover there? Our system is very shallow at 3B and 1B, he could easily play 3B for us and be just as happy.

And 7 years at 150 million is incredibly cheap for the guy that is runner up in Cy Young. I highly doubt he signs for a 1-2 year deal anywhere.

 

[CSF77]

That's right! I forgot about all those gold gloves Baez earned at 1b, LF, RF, CF, and 3B during his time here.

This isn't 'Moneyball' with Scott Hatteberg...

Not to be crude--but just because one or two guys (like Bryant) CAN play multiple positions--does not mean everybody can or will. And if you're Correa--are you signing your big deal to play 5-6 spots or just the one you've dominated your whole career? If the cubs or any team approach you about playing 5-6 spots defensively--and you entertain talks with them--don't you think your price tag goes up exponentially to agree to take on more responsibility because of your defensive flexibility?

Not doubting the bat--at all. Would love the bat in the lineup. Very much doubt if you sign him--he plays more than just SS. Means you have to move one of him, Hoerner, or Madrigal because all 3 can't be MI at the same time.


He's only cracked 20 starts per year 3x, and he entered the league in 2015. He's eclipsed 25 starts in a year only 1x, in 2016. 111 career starts in his now 7th year. To put it nicely--that's more than "the occasional DL stint."

We aren't talking about an ace of the rotation, here either. This year has been his best in the career until July and he's been regressing since (except last week against this AA lineup).

Giving him 2 years is a big gamble. Giving him 7 you may as well just up payroll to over 200 mil, because you'll have a few anchors with him and Heyward who aren't going to produce what you're paying them.

Carlos Rodon lands on injured list with shoulder fatigue; White Sox lose game, series to Twins

The Sox put Rodon on the injured list Wednesday and recalled Matt Foster from Triple-A Charlotte.

www.google.com

It is a fair take. But i will stand pat. 2 short days 8 day lay off then pounded 99 MPH and 11 Cub wiffs.

I really believe that this is a gas tank issue right now. Guy pitches 20 games peak and under the knife etc. All of a sudden he is absorbing innings that he has never done before. His arm will buckle from that and the sox shutting him down was the right thing.

Now I will make a diffrent take on this.

How many total inning does he have?
How many innings on a pitchers arm do you normally see a velocity drop?

I havent checked into it myself but those injuries migh be a blessing. There is a long list of pitchers that have to reinvent themselves after losing 8MPH. like hammer main pitch like Kershaw and others.

That should be taken into concideration if his medicals come back clean. His arm has low miles.

 

[knoxville7]

That's right! I forgot about all those gold gloves Baez earned at 1b, LF, RF, CF, and 3B during his time here.

Not to be crude--but just because one or two guys (like Bryant) CAN play multiple positions--does not mean everybody can or will. And if you're Correa--are you signing your big deal to play 5-6 spots or just the one you've dominated your whole career? If the cubs or any team approach you about playing 5-6 spots defensively--and you entertain talks with them--don't you think your price tag goes up exponentially to agree to take on more responsibility because of your defensive flexibility?

Not doubting the bat--at all. Would love the bat in the lineup. Very much doubt if you sign him--he plays more than just SS. Means you have to move one of him, Hoerner, or Madrigal because all 3 can't be MI at the same time.


He's only cracked 20 starts per year 3x, and he entered the league in 2015. He's eclipsed 25 starts in a year only 1x, in 2016. 111 career starts in his now 7th year. To put it nicely--that's more than "the occasional DL stint."

We aren't talking about an ace of the rotation, here either. This year has been his best in the career until July and he's been regressing since (except last week against this AA lineup).

Giving him 2 years is a big gamble. Giving him 7 you may as well just up payroll to over 200 mil, because you'll have a few anchors with him and Heyward who aren't going to produce what you're paying them.

i wouldn’t use Baez as your comp on this. Aside from SS, baez did play significant time at 2B and 3B. The reason he never competed for gold gloves at those positions is because he never played enough at any one position during that time. You know this…to use Baez as an example of a guy that “just” plays SS is a really bad one

Correa can have SS if he signs with the cubs. You move hoerner to 3B and madrigal plays 2B. And tbh, Correa as he ages will probably be better off playing 3B, at which time you can flip him and Nico. And before you say, “Correa doesn’t play 3B!” It’s not uncommon for SS’s to move to 3B at some point in their careers. They obviously have the arm strength to play it, and it doesn’t require as much range, which is ideal as a guy ages and loses a step

 

[TL1961]

I saw someone claim you may be able to get Freeman for 4/80 because he already signed a huge contract before. I can't imagine that's right otherwise I assume ATL would have extended him already

Someone suggested that Freeman would figure out that “I already made enough money already so I will take less money to go play for a rebuilding team”?

 

[CSF77]

Someone suggested that Freeman would figure out that “I already made enough money already so I will take less money to go play for a rebuilding team”?

I expect him to resign.