I Like Ross, but the Cubs need Girardi

CSF77

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Wow.

I'm a little shocked with this final decision.

My first reaction is there will be some turn over and I wouldn't be shocked with Contreras moved to RF and Caratini made into the starting catcher now. David believes in framing and took pride in it. Wilson can't frame.
 

CRM 114

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Cubs replace one circus guy with another. The results will be the same. The Cubs needed a disciplinarian like Joe Giradi.
 

fatbeard

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Wow.

I'm a little shocked with this final decision.

My first reaction is there will be some turn over and I wouldn't be shocked with Contreras moved to RF and Caratini made into the starting catcher now. David believes in framing and took pride in it. Wilson can't frame.

Caratini is not a good framer, either. The Cubs are simply a better team with Contreras behind the plate and Happ in RF. He was literally the best offensive catcher in MLB last year (min 400 PAs), despite only playing in 105 games. He is a legit All-Star value player whose net value far exceeds the 9 or so runs he cost the Cubs with poor framing.
 

Parade_Rain

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These players needed to have more accountability to the team in my observation. I'm not certain how the Ross hiring will change any of that, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
 

brett05

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Perhaps Ross was a commander in the club house who did it privately. If so, he would be different than Maddon perhaps
 

anotheridiot

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These players needed to have more accountability to the team in my observation. I'm not certain how the Ross hiring will change any of that, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

They respect Ross and how he played the game. Keep going back to it, but it matters from a guy with such a long major league career. You gotta believe most of these guys will play harder just so Ross does not catch any flack. The rest of them dont belong here.

so much for off days, I guess Theo will make it official tomorrow, sounds like that fuck Kaplan started all this to get his name out there first.
 

SilenceS

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I thought Ross was the choice all along. Theo guy who is going to have the same thoughts, but with a little more toughness then Maddon.

I never though Girardi was a fit with Theo. Girardi is his his way or highway and Theo wants complete control.

I think this also signals that the Cubs will make adjustments to the team, but there isnt going to be a major shake up. You may see a trade or two, but I dont see it involving Bryant. If they sign Nick, then they are trading Schwarbs. If not. they are going to get a CF, a pitcher, and a bullpen.
 

anotheridiot

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I thought Ross was the choice all along. Theo guy who is going to have the same thoughts, but with a little more toughness then Maddon.

I never though Girardi was a fit with Theo. Girardi is his his way or highway and Theo wants complete control.

I think this also signals that the Cubs will make adjustments to the team, but there isnt going to be a major shake up. You may see a trade or two, but I dont see it involving Bryant. If they sign Nick, then they are trading Schwarbs. If not. they are going to get a CF, a pitcher, and a bullpen.

Well, cubs are dealing with the grievance from Bryant about his service time, missing one day for that super 2 when he deserved to make the team out of spring training. If he gets to be a free agent after next year we might be seeing the last of KB. All those know it all from whichever forum about you gotta keep his extra year must be rolling over in their graves.
 

Steve_A

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Well, cubs are dealing with the grievance from Bryant about his service time, missing one day for that super 2 when he deserved to make the team out of spring training. If he gets to be a free agent after next year we might be seeing the last of KB. All those know it all from whichever forum about you gotta keep his extra year must be rolling over in their graves.
Not like you won an argument or anything dude. Quit being an idiot and stop attacking others for the sake of needing a win.
 
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TL1961

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Caratini is not a good framer, either. The Cubs are simply a better team with Contreras behind the plate and Happ in RF. He was literally the best offensive catcher in MLB last year (min 400 PAs), despite only playing in 105 games. He is a legit All-Star value player whose net value far exceeds the 9 or so runs he cost the Cubs with poor framing.
Are you putting him defensively at catcher because his offense ranks #1 as a catcher?

Offense is offense.

Unless you're suggesting - and I don't believe you are - that he can't perform as well offensively if not catching, I see no reason his offense has any bearing on whether or not he plays catcher.

If you're suggesting the difference in offense between Happ/Contreras is so great over Contreras/Caratini that we live with the worst framing in the league, then I don't get it.

How much must Happ hit to justify being bad defensively at two positions? I don't see him providing enough offense to justify that.

I would prefer Caratini remain backup behind someone new.
 

TL1961

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Well, cubs are dealing with the grievance from Bryant about his service time, missing one day for that super 2 when he deserved to make the team out of spring training. If he gets to be a free agent after next year we might be seeing the last of KB. All those know it all from whichever forum about you gotta keep his extra year must be rolling over in their graves.
Everybody from the other forum died?
 

TL1961

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Ross has played for Bobby Cox, Bruce Bochy, Joe Maddon and Terry Francona, among others.

That's some good exposure. (Ironically, it's the one HOF manager on that list I value least. And I believe all four eventually are in the hall.)
 

fatbeard

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Are you putting him defensively at catcher because his offense ranks #1 as a catcher?

Offense is offense.

Unless you're suggesting - and I don't believe you are - that he can't perform as well offensively if not catching, I see no reason his offense has any bearing on whether or not he plays catcher.

I'm simply suggesting how to get the most talent on the field at the same time. Contreras/Happ > Contreras/Caratini

If you're suggesting the difference in offense between Happ/Contreras is so great over Contreras/Caratini that we live with the worst framing in the league, then I don't get it.

First, Contreras is not the worst framer in the league. Fangraphs tracks framing runs now and this is easy enough to look up.

Second, Contreras cost the Cubs about -9 runs (or about -1 WAR) this season. His wRC+ was 127. That's a net gain of +18 runs (or about 2 WAR). Caratini saved the Cubs 1.6 runs from framing this season. His wRC+ was 108. So he net the Cubs about +10 runs.

How much must Happ hit to justify being bad defensively at two positions? I don't see him providing enough offense to justify that.

Happ hasn't played any position enough to make a valid judgment about his defense yet.
 

TL1961

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I'm simply suggesting how to get the most talent on the field at the same time. Contreras/Happ > Contreras/Caratini



First, Contreras is not the worst framer in the league. Fangraphs tracks framing runs now and this is easy enough to look up.

Second, Contreras cost the Cubs about -9 runs (or about -1 WAR) this season. His wRC+ was 127. That's a net gain of +18 runs (or about 2 WAR). Caratini saved the Cubs 1.6 runs from framing this season. His wRC+ was 108. So he net the Cubs about +10 runs.



Happ hasn't played any position enough to make a valid judgment about his defense yet.

Offense and Defense combined, Conteras at C and Happ in RF is not good.

Your +18 for Contreras is not relevant.
You are comparing starting him at C vs not playing him, which I am certainly not advocating. It suffers vs other options that include Contreras' bat, but gets him out from behind the plate (assuming the replacement behind the plate is not even worse defensively, and again, I am certainly not advocating that as an option.)
 

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