I still believe in Fields

run and shoot

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So I like the idea of him passing the ball(y). I just think we need to chose that right pass plays i.e. slants, hooks etc.
We can't have those long developing routes. We can't have the OL in pass pro to long, cause they can't control the
edge rushers.

Just fyi espn analytics had the Bears as the best pass blocking OL by far though the first two weeks, based on holding blocks for 2.5 seconds.


I wouldn't go that far by any means, but they aren't a terrible pass blocking team. Borom was terrible today I will give you that.

Do this go into link>>#17 go to video time stamp @2:34 DT Kenny Clark . See what he says about what they did to JF in GB

Also......
here's what an NFL OT says about time in the pocket
“If his (Burrow’s) first read isn’t immediately open its not like, ‘welp let’s pack it in’ and it's 2nd-and-10 now,” Jonah Williams said. “He’s going to make something happen and our receivers are so good that if we give them four seconds or five seconds to run they’re going to be open. He makes plays where there might not be an immediate one.”

Giving Burrow a bit more time is at the top of the priority list in the offensive line room. During practice Pollack consistently coached the bigs on being less reactionary to defenses and premeditating a defensive lineman’s moves.

Here's the article for the quote above

Re-Tooled Bengals' Offensive Line Ready to Protect Joe Burrow

 

Rise

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You know we don’t have to have the answer on him this season. He is signed for two more years. If he struggles all year you draft a plan B. Hell even if he improves draft and develop a plan B. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing this year.

Get weapons and let’s see what he can do, if he still struggles you got an out. Simple to me. No rule says you can only develop one guy at a time.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Bottom line is he’s currently playing like the worst QB in the league, worse than most backups.
He’s thinking too much and not reacting. Maybe he worked too much on fixing his fundamentals and it’s fucking up his throwing..

Its more than just thinking too much though - his line isn't protecting him, so he's seeing ghosts out there. He can't have any sort of internal clock he can depend on to get rid of the ball because the line caves way too quickly.
 

run and shoot

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Trevor Lawrence just

AWS Next-Gen stats said the same thing, but guys are ignoring it or are in denial. I think they see pressure a few times and assume the pass blocking is bad....but all QBs get pressured throughout the game. (Although Mills seemed to have all day.)

What are the metrics Next-Gen stats uses to determine pass pro ???? I tried looking for it, couldn't find anything
 

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Do this go into link>>#17 go to video time stamp @2:34 DT Kenny Clark . See what he says about what they did to JF in GB

Also......
here's what an NFL OT says about time in the pocket
“If his (Burrow’s) first read isn’t immediately open its not like, ‘welp let’s pack it in’ and it's 2nd-and-10 now,” Jonah Williams said. “He’s going to make something happen and our receivers are so good that if we give them four seconds or five seconds to run they’re going to be open. He makes plays where there might not be an immediate one.”

Giving Burrow a bit more time is at the top of the priority list in the offensive line room. During practice Pollack consistently coached the bigs on being less reactionary to defenses and premeditating a defensive lineman’s moves.

Here's the article for the quote above

Re-Tooled Bengals' Offensive Line Ready to Protect Joe Burrow

So you have nothing relevant to what I posted. An OL saying something is not a statistic, and the Bengals have been about the worst in pass pro this year.

You are always going to have a predetermined outcome to your arguments and just put in whatever gets you to where you want to go and ignore things that don't.
 

run and shoot

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It's the same as ESPN analytics.
What is pass rush win rate?

ESPN Analytics created revolutionary new metrics to measure performance in the trenches -- in both the run and pass game -- using player tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats. Our pass rush win rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds.5 days ago
____________________

What this doesn't tell me is what if the pocket is collasping in that 2.5 seconds. But I'll keep reseaching
 

dennehy

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What is pass rush win rate?

ESPN Analytics created revolutionary new metrics to measure performance in the trenches -- in both the run and pass game -- using player tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats. Our pass rush win rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds.5 days ago
____________________

What this doesn't tell me is what if the pocket is collasping in that 2.5 seconds. But I'll keep reseaching
If they are holding their blocks for 2.5 seconds at a higher rate than every other team, that's an indication that 1. The pocket is generally not collapsing at 2.5 seconds, because the blocks are being held at 2.5 seconds (this seems obvious, wouldn't you say?) and 2. That Fields does have less time to throw than most other QBs - because most those teams have more OL getting beat faster, on average. I hope this helps you in your researching quest.

I think possibly a lot of times Fields is under pressure very quickly it's because they are running bootleg off play action, and the other teams knows they are going to do this and so they keep someone out there who doesn't bite on the play fake. I think that happened on two sacks today. But it's also an outcome of the Bears having to roll the QB out because Fields has been so bad from the pocket.
 

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No team in NFL history has played more games with less talent at QB than the Bears. Fields has a chance to be good, but he is a baby without quality coaching and a shocking lack of O talent. I get the overreaction from young fans that don't understand what is happening at this early point in Fields career.

No one that has followed the NFL for more than a decade thinks it is a good idea to give up on a 23 year old QB with talent. I can't wait to see what he can do with some real coaching and a few more talented teammates.

If Fields is 28 with pro bowlers on O and functional coaches, and he is still playing like this, then yup. But to freak out now is lame and and shows a massive lack of NFL knowledge.

If the current dip shit coaching staff doesn't get him killed, Fields will be a good/great QB when the next (competent) brain trust takes over.
 

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He missed at least 3-4 this game. I would argue the first two games were 50/50. This game they were blantantly open running free. One was on the pick intended for Mooney, he had Equifax running down the sideline.
It’s like Twilight Zone. We’re back to making excuses why the Bears QB sucked ass instead of realizing the QB himself sucked ass regardless of the talent around him—and that’s with the QB even acknowledging he sucked ass! Never change CCS.
 

TL1961

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You know we don’t have to have the answer on him this season. He is signed for two more years. If he struggles all year you draft a plan B. Hell even if he improves draft and develop a plan B. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing this year.

Get weapons and let’s see what he can do, if he still struggles you got an out. Simple to me. No rule says you can only develop one guy at a time.
If you need to get weapons for your QB, get them. Don’t use a pick on a QB.
 

TexasBearfan

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It's the same as ESPN analytics.
they use TTT (time to throw) which is from the snap to the point he releases the ball, he's the slowest in the league....they subtract sacks and i think runs.......obviously when Poles and Flus evaluated him someone got him working in the summer on his release time and they're doing what they can do shorten his delivery and get him to get the ball out faster but i'm not sure if it's possible to make someone see the field/process faster.
Most of the top QBs are at the top of the list for time getting rid of the ball. I can remember a Manning/Brady matchup when they were raving about how fast each got the ball out and how Manning had some new guys on the Oline but it didn't matter because hey don't have to hold their blocks as long as with other guys
 

Hbkrusso

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If they can't look within ans realize they offered the guy ZERO help, then what good would another 1st round qb be? He'd fail too! I'm not saying that Fields is or isn't the guy but I know for a fact he doesn't have the help.

He is no Aaron Rodgers. Let's get real here. But Even the HOFer Rodgers could use some God damned Wide receivers!

What weapons does Fields have at his disposal. I'm pretty sure Fields is dead last in time to throw.
It's a failed experiment all around. He'll go down as another shit qb, no doubt.


That's why i pulled for Trubisky to succeed elsewhere But it's clear to me now that that guy is a journeyman at best. But for me, it was hard to see when the coach sucks and the personnel sucks around him.
Same situation and same level of talent at this point
I haven't given up on fields entirely but if pressed and forced ta make an assessment right now today I'd say fields was a bust and we gotta hope they start looking elsewhere
That being said there is alot of football left and it's his first year in a new system
We have all hashed out arguments for years over qbs going through these very self same predicaments as bears fans at some point we may be forced to admit these are excuses yet again
I hope that's not the case but at least mitch just fucking missed the throws by a hair after today I find myself wondering if fields even fucking sees them
 

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Sorry for having hijacked your thread with non-fields talk @nvanprooyen but nick morrow also looked good today, sorry
 

run and shoot

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Do this go into link>>#17 go to video time stamp @2:34 DT Kenny Clark . See what he says about what they did to JF in GB

Also......
here's what an NFL OT says about time in the pocket
“If his (Burrow’s) first read isn’t immediately open its not like, ‘welp let’s pack it in’ and it's 2nd-and-10 now,” Jonah Williams said. “He’s going to make something happen and our receivers are so good that if we give them four seconds or five seconds to run they’re going to be open. He makes plays where there might not be an immediate one.”

Giving Burrow a bit more time is at the top of the priority list in the offensive line room. During practice Pollack consistently coached the bigs on being less reactionary to defenses and premeditating a defensive lineman’s moves.

Here's the article for the quote above

Re-Tooled Bengals' Offensive Line Ready to Protect Joe Burrow


So you have nothing relevant to what I posted. An OL saying something is not a statistic, and the Bengals have been about the worst in pass pro this year.

You are always going to have a predetermined outcome to your arguments and just put in whatever gets you to where you want to go and ignore things that don't.

Let me start off by saying I don't like the word "arguments" it sounds to confrontation . I prefer discussions.

Which is why I shared info, with u on pass pro, what DT Kenny Clark said about JF and Jonah Williams perspective on pass pro . It all ties in with our pass pro discussion. And no I don't ignore information. I like sharing receiving information.

In terms of the stats others have brought these PFF stats up to me. I looked them over. I didn't ignore it,
But I also go by what I see and what I've experienced.
 

Pretzel Logic

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I don't always get to watch the games, so all there is for me is clipped highlights/lowlights and the box score with stats.

I think given the number of called drop backs, those with access with either a game replay or the vaunted all22 should be able to get a far better understanding in this game as to what some of the problems are outside of the 2 INTS.

He was sacked 5/6 times, is that on the pass protection? Fields holding the ball too long/lack of understanding what's in front of him? Decent coverage down field?

8/17 completions, in those, what did he do right?

Think this game offers more info than the game against the Packers.

No point jumping off a bandwagon or off a cliff at this point. Most balanced level headed folk probably didn't have high expectations coming into the season. Plenty of excuses being made about everything from the receiving options, the play of 5th round tackles, the coaching staff (rookie play caller), I mean, it's all relevant.

I said by the time the game against Washington the picture will be clearer, but probably that's a false claim on my part (I'm not that clever or informed). The Giants and the Pats have decent secondary (Pats up until yesterday were in the top 5/10 against the pass, that might have changed) and so are the Giants.

Fields need to be better, a little help from his play caller (maybe) wouldn't go amiss.
 

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