Is ownership really that bad?

Shepard

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And even worse, he is the Chairman of the Board, he refuses to learn the business and he also refuses to add a president of construction to help the business gain stability.
THIS ^^^^^^^
 

Bearcub13

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I've been thinking about this for a while and I'm wondering what the biggest complaint is with the ownership. I know that many feel that ownership should have fired Nagy and Pace during the season, but doesn't loyalty count for anything? I mean if you look at it from that perspective, isn't that a good quality (annoying at times, yes, but still an overall good quality)? In a world where there is often no loyalty at all, this should mean something.
Is it that there is an evident lack of football knowledge? It seems that making an effort to bring in people who are more 'subject matter experts' makes sense. If you don't know something, admit it, and then find someone who does. The search that they are undertaking for both GM and HC is taking a long time, but isn't that a good thing? Doesn't it indicate that ownership wants to pick the right people? What's wrong with that?
When I think of the Bears, I think of an organization that prides itself on tradition, of being a cold weather smash and grind football team. We don't have much drama like Vegas or Cincy or Cleveland, and I think that ownership has something to do with that.

These are legit questions I'm asking because I don't know. I don't live in Chicago, so I haven't interacted with the franchise in the same way that many of you have. My experience in life is that the grass is always greener on the other side. I just wonder if things would be worse with new ownership.
The Bears brass did a thorough search 4 years ago and picked Ryan Pace a well regarded youngish candidate. If Pace told them he was going to swing for the fences and move up in the draft regularly and they still hired him that would be a problem. Regardless, they hired a gambler, and they lost. I just hope this current process yields a GM who won't cause me to slap my head when I hear the Bears draft picks. Mitch Who???
 

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I've been thinking about this for a while and I'm wondering what the biggest complaint is with the ownership. I know that many feel that ownership should have fired Nagy and Pace during the season, but doesn't loyalty count for anything? I mean if you look at it from that perspective, isn't that a good quality (annoying at times, yes, but still an overall good quality)? In a world where there is often no loyalty at all, this should mean something.
Is it that there is an evident lack of football knowledge? It seems that making an effort to bring in people who are more 'subject matter experts' makes sense. If you don't know something, admit it, and then find someone who does. The search that they are undertaking for both GM and HC is taking a long time, but isn't that a good thing? Doesn't it indicate that ownership wants to pick the right people? What's wrong with that?
When I think of the Bears, I think of an organization that prides itself on tradition, of being a cold weather smash and grind football team. We don't have much drama like Vegas or Cincy or Cleveland, and I think that ownership has something to do with that.

These are legit questions I'm asking because I don't know. I don't live in Chicago, so I haven't interacted with the franchise in the same way that many of you have. My experience in life is that the grass is always greener on the other side. I just wonder if things would be worse with new ownership.

I've been thinking about this for a while and I'm wondering what the biggest complaint is with the ownership.

Here's what I've seen over my lifetime, Ownership is only about making money. Remember football is their only source of revenue.

The do not care and are not committed to winning SB's. I've never heard Ownership say.....'they we're committed to being SB contenders'. I have heard them say they want to "COMPETITIVE". :sick:
 

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Here's what I've seen over my lifetime, Ownership is only about making money. Remember football is their only source of revenue.

The do not care and are not committed to winning SB's. I've never heard Ownership say.....'they we're committed to being SB contenders'. I have heard them say they want to "COMPETITIVE". :sick:
They're not even good at making money.

Forbes ranked them as the 7th most valuable franchise in the NFL. Dallas is alone at #1 at an amazing 6.5 billion and the Rams round out the top 4 at 4.8 billion. The Bears should be closer to the Rams at 5 billion than they are just above the Jets and Eagles at 4 billion.

They own the biggest market by themselves (NY & LA are split)...they're in the biggest football market....and they're 7th.

Thus is why they want to get a new stadium, but renovating Soldier the way they did when they did is largely why they're worth at least a billion less than they should be.

 

Visionman

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They're not even good at making money.

Forbes ranked them as the 7th most valuable franchise in the NFL. Dallas is alone at #1 at an amazing 6.5 billion and the Rams round out the top 4 at 4.8 billion. The Bears should be closer to the Rams at 5 billion than they are just above the Jets and Eagles at 4 billion.

They own the biggest market by themselves (NY & LA are split)...they're in the biggest football market....and they're 7th.

Thus is why they want to get a new stadium, but renovating Soldier the way they did when they did is largely why they're worth at least a billion less than they should be.

You really are the new board think-I-know-it-all, aren’t ya?
 

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They have not been cheap in quite some time. THey have paid out some big contracts over the years.
 

remydat

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They're not even good at making money.

Forbes ranked them as the 7th most valuable franchise in the NFL. Dallas is alone at #1 at an amazing 6.5 billion and the Rams round out the top 4 at 4.8 billion. The Bears should be closer to the Rams at 5 billion than they are just above the Jets and Eagles at 4 billion.

They own the biggest market by themselves (NY & LA are split)...they're in the biggest football market....and they're 7th.

Thus is why they want to get a new stadium, but renovating Soldier the way they did when they did is largely why they're worth at least a billion less than they should be.


Saying they own the biggest market by themselves is pretty misleading.


New York is 3 times larger so even if that market was split 50-50 that would still be a larger overall population than the Bears. In addition, since they share the same stadium and so on any given home game, the Jets and Giants are not competing for fans in the stadium.

Dallas and Fort Worth are 9th and 13th in terms of population and thus are really part of the same market. In addition you have a state of 29 million and it is pretty obvious that most Texas residents are Cowboys fans outside of Houston as Cowboys have a longer history.

The Rams and Niners easily pick up fans all across the 33 million state of CA as both have other large cities around it like San Jose in the case of San Fran and San Diego in the case of LA.

Chicago is pretty isolated as a large city and Illinois as a state is much smaller than TX, NY and CA. Solider Field as you say does drag down the franchise value though.
 

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Here's what I've seen over my lifetime, Ownership is only about making money. Remember football is their only source of revenue.

The do not care and are not committed to winning SB's. I've never heard Ownership say.....'they we're committed to being SB contenders'. I have heard them say they want to "COMPETITIVE". :sick:
They're not even good at making money.

Forbes ranked them as the 7th most valuable franchise in the NFL. Dallas is alone at #1 at an amazing 6.5 billion and the Rams round out the top 4 at 4.8 billion. The Bears should be closer to the Rams at 5 billion than they are just above the Jets and Eagles at 4 billion.

They own the biggest market by themselves (NY & LA are split)...they're in the biggest football market....and they're 7th.


Thus is why they want to get a new stadium, but renovating Soldier the way they did when they did is largely why they're worth at least a billion less than they should be.


Right...."and they're 7th.". Image if they had a commitment to being SB contenders vs tossing a mediocre product out on the field
 

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You’re missing the point. You can hire 20 guys to be above the GM to hold him/them accountable. But in the end, George is still at the top, making that initial decision.

All your scenario does it make more guys for George to decide to fire or not.
In that situation, I believe that the Bears are still cheap.

Having George or any of the other clueless McCaskeys, the Bears organization needs several layers of football experience as a form of stability and as checks and balances.

Their old way was to have a GM who talked to Ted Phillips who talked to George who talked to "the board" which is basically his family. Every single layer is filled with football idiocy, not intelligence.

Their new 2022 way is to have a GM talk directly to George who will talk to "the board" and you get one less layer of football idiocy.

Too much is put on a GM's plate and there is zero support for him. Pace had to get free agents (done poorly), draft players (bad but better than his free agent work), renovate Halas Hall (seems to have done a fine job), deal with contracts (seems to have done poorly) and countless other jobs.

Ted was (and George is) too football stupid to be of any help yet they were the only sounding board for Pace and will be the only sounding boards for the next GM.

George and "the board" refuse to add a position of president of football operations (making Ted President of Counting Beans) which could make an honest evaluation of the present state of the Bears and to evaluate and advice the GM. They probably refuse because that would decrease the paychecks that the McCaskey clan gets.

It took decades for the Bears to change the cheap ways of George Halas dealing with coaching and players. Now it is time for the McCaskeys to change their cheap ways when it comes to creating a strong executive branch of the Bears.



Weeks ago, I dreamed of the Bears hiring Dodds or Smith as the GM (an upgrade of position for Dodds) and Morocco Brown as Assistant GM (also an upgrade in position so maybe the Colts couldn't block it) with the promise that in 2 years, if they were successful, Dodds or Smith would become President of Football Operations and Morocco would become GM.

This would have given the Bears the needed football experience in the building, isolating George from making any football decisions, seeing that he is just a fan.



Moreover; seeing that the McCaskey kids are part of the football business, they need to be trained from a young age in the workings of football.

Decades ago, all the McCaskeys should have gone to John Madden to be taught the game of football (he actually had a course on that very matter), should have paid Bill Polian, Ron Wolf or Ernie Accorsi (I don't think that either one has a course but money talks) to teach them the business being an executive in the NFL.



Finally, the McCaskeys should have, from a young age, served internships in every single facet of the Bears from equipment manager, scouting, to an internship with a GM, creating relationships with the players while learning the business and learning humility.

George's yearly pressor clearly shows that he does not have a clue about the business, doesn't care about former players nor does he have a sense of humility.
 

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Of course they are that bad.
The win-loss record speaks for itself.
The bone headed moves over the last 30+ years are the root of it.
The cringe worthy press conferences over the last 3 decades put it on display for the world to see.

Are the McCaskeys alone in being owners that are clueless about football? No
Are they the few that do football as their sole business? Yes
The McCaskeys did not buy the Bears with the millions they earned from real estate, information technology, automobile sales, holding companies, etc. They inherited it from the man that created the NFL.

The McCaskeys are like:
Thomas Edison's children not being able to tell the difference between a light bulb and a flower bulb.
The children of Bill Gates not knowing how to reboot windows.
Kids that grew up in a pizzeria that can't slice a pizza, so they hire a manager from McDonalds.
The future owners of grocery chain studying basket weaving in preparation.
Stoners that grew up in a weed farm that now drive down to Winchester ave to buy dime bags of oregano.
Folks that grew up in a winery in Napa Valley that are fine with a bottle of Night Train
 

jive

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Decades ago, all the McCaskeys should have gone to John Madden to be taught the game of football (he actually had a course on that very matter), should have paid Bill Polian, Ron Wolf or Ernie Accorsi (I don't think that either one has a course but money talks) to teach them the business being an executive in the NFL.



Finally, the McCaskeys should have, from a young age, served internships in every single facet of the Bears from equipment manager, scouting, to an internship with a GM, creating relationships with the players while learning the business and learning humility.

George's yearly pressor clearly shows that he does not have a clue about the business, doesn't care about former players nor does he have a sense of humility.
I agree that something like that should have been done. But even if it's just informal, I'm just astounded at how little of it rubbed off on them. Whether your parent is a drug dealer or a doctor, you know a little more about the profession than most. But, these kids had an environment and access that's unparalleled and this is what the fans get from it.
 

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They have not been cheap in quite some time. THey have paid out some big contracts over the years.
They haven't been cheap when comes to players contracts. They are cheap when comes to hiring GM and, HC and the coaching staff..
 
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These excerpts from the article posted below is very revealing for the Bears constant turmoil.

Nobody gets a clean slate; nobody gets to build their own program,” said former long snapper Patrick Mannelly, the longest-tenured player in Bears franchise history. “It feels like everybody kind of has had one handcuff on whenever they got hired.”

Now while the film session stuff was stupid, this is a money quote. Good on Patrick. He nailed it right between the eyes. This is a major problem with way Bears do things. I said last spring when they kept Nagy and Pace and drafted a QB. A monumentally stupid thing to do. And as Patrick points out, Bears have been doing it for years and it is a big reason they are struggling in continuity and success.

Read on.

The year prior, Angelo had been dismissed in McCaskey’s first major move as chairman. Team president Ted Phillips — who joined the team in 1983 as its controller, was promoted to his current position in 1999 and has overseen every major football and business decision since — was in charge of the search. Emery and current Buccaneers GM Jason Licht were finalists. Smith, coming off an 8-8 season in 2011, sat in on the interviews.

Chicago hired Emery, but he was told to stick with Smith for the 2012 season instead of finding his own coach.

“It didn’t make any sense to fire Jerry and keep Lovie,” a former team employee said. “George wanted to make his stamp, and that was his chance.”

It felt similar to 2001, when the hunt for a new GM — one run by Phillips and featuring an executive search firm from New York — simply took too long, and Angelo was hired on June 12. Training camp was only weeks away, and Angelo was told to retain then-coach **** Jauron. The Bears went 13-3 that season and Jauron won NFL Coach of the Year. Angelo wouldn’t get a chance to bring in his own candidate for two more years after Jauron went 11-21 from 2002-03.


...

Arians, the reigning coach of the year, never came back to Halas Hall. And neither did Marinelli. Five days after Trestman was hired, Mel Tucker was named defensive coordinator but with an unusual caveat: He must run Smith’s defense, even though he wasn’t familiar with the scheme. “He was hamstrung,” Mannelly said. “All these coaches were learning all the calls, Lovie’s Cover 2.”

It was a disaster. Linebacker Lance Briggs stayed after practice to help younger teammates because his position coach, Tim Tibesar, didn’t know the defense. “When you don’t have buy-in from the players and the players are trying to self-correct so they perform, it’s like, ‘Holy ****,'” a former staff member said.

It would have helped to have had Brian Urlacher around, but that was another issue. On March 20, 2013, hours after Trestman met the media for the first time during the NFL’s annual meeting at the Arizona Biltmore in Phoenix, the team sent out a press release announcing that Urlacher, a future Hall of Famer, would not return after 13 seasons with the team: “We were unable to reach an agreement with Brian,” it said. “And both sides have decided to move forward.”

In truth, only one side made the decision.

...

Nine months later, Emery signed Cutler — the quarterback Angelo acquired in 2009 for a package that included two first-round picks — to a seven-year extension that guaranteed him $54 million over the first three seasons and $38 million at signing. Culter threw a league-high 18 interceptions in a turmoil-filled 2014 and was benched for Jimmy Clausen late in the season. The team posted a 5-11 record, and both Emery and Trestman were out. (emphasis mine).

...

McCaskey and Phillips turned to Ernie Accorsi to assist them in their GM and coaching searches in 2015.

...

Ballard, a former Bears scout, appeared to be an easy-decision hire. But sources said Ballard had two requests: 1. He wanted to report directly to McCaskey instead of going through Phillips, and 2. He wanted to move on from Cutler. Ballard was offering the franchise an opportunity for a reboot, but the Bears didn’t want to take it, choosing to go with Pace instead.

“That thing stunk,” a former employee said. “It’s a good ol’ boy thing. Ryan Pace was a recommendation from (Saints GM) Mickey Loomis. Loomis and Ted are tight. (Saints coach) Sean Payton wanted Pace to be GM. Accorsi and Payton are connected. There was a reason Pace interviewed last.”

...

Fox and Accorsi worked together with the Giants, and as sources said then and now, Accorsi loved Fox. It ultimately became Pace’s call to hire him, but the idea of pairing Pace, who was 37, with an older coach in Fox appealed to the brain trust at the time. One former employee described it as an “arranged marriage.”

“Fox was put in place because they had a young GM,” another former staff member said. “He was an older guy, he understands personnel. It was the master plan from Accorsi, Loomis and Ted.”

...

Finally out from under the Cutler deal, Pace could have fired Fox and hired a head coach to go through the process of selecting a new quarterback with him, but ownership likely wouldn’t have signed off on starting over with a new coaching staff after only two seasons.

“Why the **** does John Fox need to know anything?” a source said. “He’s a lame duck. Everyone knew that.”

Again.

That put Pace in a position to search for a franchise quarterback when he knew he would fire Fox at the end of the season.

...

The quarterback was already in place.


You get the picture. Fast forward to this year and we are going to pick a coach and a GM in some order. Arrange that marriage and arrange it again with essentially a rookie QB. Then if they don't succeed in next 4 years they are gone in year 5 or something. But in year 5 they saddle the next guy with their decisions.

'It all starts with the McCaskeys': How the Bears ended up in 'an endless cycle of inheriting the previous regime's trash'
 

JoJoBoxer

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I agree that something like that should have been done. But even if it's just informal, I'm just astounded at how little of it rubbed off on them. Whether your parent is a drug dealer or a doctor, you know a little more about the profession than most. But, these kids had an environment and access that's unparalleled and this is what the fans get from it.
Well said.

Now I know that there are some professionals who have children who are so busy chasing butterflies or sculpting or riding horses that they do not have the time nor the interest in learning the business. The thing with these professionals is that they do not put these type of children in charge of the business. They look for other options to run the business for the family in case of death.

What did George Halas do when his son Mugs died suddenly? He didn't seem to have a plan.

By the way, Mugs was more important than his dad in bringing the Bears their only Super Bowl. He was the person who convinced his dad to hire Jim Finks. If he had lived, he would have done everything to have kept Jim Finks.

From Chet Coppock's book (https://eckhartzpress.com/mugs-halas/):
Mugs struggled all his life to carve his own identity. You’re the son of George Halas, no matter what you do, you’re just the old man’s kid who won big in the lucky sperm sweepstakes.

Does Mugs have a profound legacy with the Bears? Damn right, he does. In 1974, George, Jr., convinced his pop to let him pitch Jim Finks, who had built the Minnesota Vikings into a perennial NFL power, about bolting to Chicago to run the club with complete authority over every phase of the operation. Along with a small percentage of the team.

Honest to God, I don’t know – I would love to know – what Mugs said to his dad to convince him to stand down. It was a move that vaulted a woebegone franchise into the 20th century. Finks engineered the creation of Halas Hall in Lake Forest and ushered the Bears downtown offices from the sorrowful atmosphere at 173 W. Madison St. to dramatically upscale headquarters at 55 E. Jackson Boulevard.

Did I mention that Finks used his first draft pick as Big Bear to dice Walter Payton out of Jackson State (No. 4 overall in 1975)?

By this time, Mugs had found his niche. He became active in NFL affairs, winning league-wide respect for his ability to stabilize and upgrade one of the league’s most strategically important franchises.

Sadly, we were/are stuck with latest winners of the lucky sperm sweepstakes, Michael and George McCaskey.


The only silver lining is that a great GM can change the Bears completely though there will never be another Jim Finks.
 

Visionman

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In that situation, I believe that the Bears are still cheap.

Having George or any of the other clueless McCaskeys, the Bears organization needs several layers of football experience as a form of stability and as checks and balances.

Their old way was to have a GM who talked to Ted Phillips who talked to George who talked to "the board" which is basically his family. Every single layer is filled with football idiocy, not intelligence.

Their new 2022 way is to have a GM talk directly to George who will talk to "the board" and you get one less layer of football idiocy.

Too much is put on a GM's plate and there is zero support for him. Pace had to get free agents (done poorly), draft players (bad but better than his free agent work), renovate Halas Hall (seems to have done a fine job), deal with contracts (seems to have done poorly) and countless other jobs.

Ted was (and George is) too football stupid to be of any help yet they were the only sounding board for Pace and will be the only sounding boards for the next GM.

George and "the board" refuse to add a position of president of football operations (making Ted President of Counting Beans) which could make an honest evaluation of the present state of the Bears and to evaluate and advice the GM. They probably refuse because that would decrease the paychecks that the McCaskey clan gets.

It took decades for the Bears to change the cheap ways of George Halas dealing with coaching and players. Now it is time for the McCaskeys to change their cheap ways when it comes to creating a strong executive branch of the Bears.



Weeks ago, I dreamed of the Bears hiring Dodds or Smith as the GM (an upgrade of position for Dodds) and Morocco Brown as Assistant GM (also an upgrade in position so maybe the Colts couldn't block it) with the promise that in 2 years, if they were successful, Dodds or Smith would become President of Football Operations and Morocco would become GM.

This would have given the Bears the needed football experience in the building, isolating George from making any football decisions, seeing that he is just a fan.



Moreover; seeing that the McCaskey kids are part of the football business, they need to be trained from a young age in the workings of football.

Decades ago, all the McCaskeys should have gone to John Madden to be taught the game of football (he actually had a course on that very matter), should have paid Bill Polian, Ron Wolf or Ernie Accorsi (I don't think that either one has a course but money talks) to teach them the business being an executive in the NFL.



Finally, the McCaskeys should have, from a young age, served internships in every single facet of the Bears from equipment manager, scouting, to an internship with a GM, creating relationships with the players while learning the business and learning humility.

George's yearly pressor clearly shows that he does not have a clue about the business, doesn't care about former players nor does he have a sense of humility.
But Pace didn’t do it all. He, being the football guy, overhauled the scouting and pro personnel departments and brought in his guys. Would you rather have had George do it? Maybe left that to Accorsi too?

The point is, no matter how many layers you add, it’s all window dressing, as it all comes from the same source. If you don’t trust George to hire football people, trusting him to hire multiple football people as a buffer is just going to make a bigger mess in the end…
 

Shepard

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But Pace didn’t do it all. He, being the football guy, overhauled the scouting and pro personnel departments and brought in his guys. Would you rather have had George do it? Maybe left that to Accorsi too?

The point is, no matter how many layers you add, it’s all window dressing, as it all comes from the same source. If you don’t trust George to hire football people, trusting him to hire multiple football people as a buffer is just going to make a bigger mess in the end…
So just to be clear you wouldn't want George to hire say...Jon Robinson (Titans GM/VP) as the new Team President (make him highest paid exec in sports) give him full autonomy to build/structure the organization however he wants (hire his own GM/Coach and everyone in between or let his GM hire own coach, whatever he wants)....

You'd rather just have George do what he's doing this off-season because its hopeless anyway?

Got it.
 

Visionman

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So just to be clear you wouldn't want George to hire say...Jon Robinson (Titans GM/VP) as the new Team President (make him highest paid exec in sports) give him full autonomy to build/structure the organization however he wants (hire his own GM/Coach and everyone in between or let his GM hire own coach, whatever he wants)....

You'd rather just have George do what he's doing this off-season because its hopeless anyway?

Got it.
Just to be clear..it’s still George doing the hiring. You have built up this entire “accountability” fallacy just because you prefer certain candidates over others.
 

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Just to be clear..it’s still George doing the hiring. You have built up this entire “accountability” fallacy just because you prefer certain candidates over others.
Again this has nothing to do with preference but allowing someone else in charge to stay and make decisions. I've mentioned as many guys as I could for new Team President (DeCosta, Robinson, Peyton Manning...I have no idea who just anyone more credible than Ted/George). I don't pretend to have that intuition as to who is should be- nor have I ever. I'm just a fan like everyone else (even George). If the McCaskeys had a SHRED of humility they would do it...but they don't.

All I want is for them to hire a Team President to pick who the GM....not a panel of people involving Ted and George. The ownership board could then review that President at a later time and review him A LOT more objectively rather than reviewing George. Ted has been terrible, yet George's mother and company say, "Oh its okay Georgie...you've been doing great do what you want."

The organizational mom and pop structure has failed the Bears and it has to stop.
 

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