Is Robert Quinn better than Khalil Mack??

EDPeezy

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I always thought of Quinn as a pure pass rusher and Mack as a more rounded guy. All over the field sort of player. Quinn isn’t getting into coverage the way Mack is. The metrics could prove me wrong on that.
 

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Quinn is worthless against the run. He's a better speed rusher but that's literally the only area he's better. Mack is an amazingly well rounded player.
 

remydat

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Ok. Then who is the best defensive player on the team?
When healthy, it is obviously still Mack. He is the best all around player and the guy teams gameplan for including double teaming.

You don't really gameplan for Quan because the book on him is simple. Get a body on him. That's it. You get a body on Quan and he is done. Of course, he is good enough to avoid blocks quite a bit but there is no rocket science to trying to limit his effectiveness.
 

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Quinn is worthless against the run. He's a better speed rusher but that's literally the only area he's better. Mack is an amazingly well rounded player.

He wasn't brought in to run the i formation dude.
 

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Absolutely. What Quinn did this year was unprecedented. Bears defense saw the least amount of passing attempts in the league and he still broke the team sack record. He also killed it in the run game.
However, Mack has played hurt in about 90% of his time here. It’s the only argument he has for disappearing against much weaker competition while having a more dominant interior rusher next to him in Hicks.
Quinn had more sacks and TFL in a previous year so it was definitely precedented. He also had 49 tackles this year (38 solo) so also not useless against the run:rolleyes:.

Mack is better. :)
 

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Doesn't matter who's better. They're on the same team, yay!
 

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That's what stood out at me even more so than his sack total. Seemed like last year, he'd look to getting at the QB first and would affect his run defense. This year he seemed to do well in both aspects
 

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That's what stood out at me even more so than his sack total. Seemed like last year, he'd look to getting at the QB first and would affect his run defense. This year he seemed to do well in both aspects
I don't expect next year to be as good as this one but to dump him for peanuts is just silly. This team doesn't need to be blown up, especially on D but obviously, the new GM has his work cut out with a few glaring holes at WR, CB and maybe OL plus so many players unsigned. How often is this team going to continue to start over instead of reload?

And another thing about Quinn's #s. How often were the Bear ahead and forcing downfield throws from their opponents. That he did that on this team is pretty remarkable.
 
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Pegger

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Okay guys, I know we can all be victims of the moment and 18.5 sacks was a great season, but let's not forget who Robert Quinn is.

His sack production since coming into the NFL is; 5, 10.5, 19, 10.5, 5, 4, 8.5, 6.5, 11.5, 2 and then 18.5.

He'll be 32 years old and of his 11 nfl seasons he's been able to play 16 games just under 1/2 the time (5 games).

If you are expecting 15+ sacks from a 32 year old Robert Quinn then your expectations don't line up to the history. Just like the 2 sack season in 2020 he'd due to regress to his statistically mean.


The larger theme for the Bears is troubling. Mack will be 31 this season and Quinn will be 32. Just looking at age alone, there's a chance at least one of these guys will be on the decline and also a possibility they both start to regress. Mack has 2 seasons left on his deal and Quinn has 3. Their combined cap hit for this season is ~$47M. With 2 players taking up ~22.6% of your salary cap what's the chances they will both be healthy this or next season?
 
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That stat is misleading when you are looking at what a DE does against the run. Their largest contribution is to contain things from breaking out and funneling the runner back towards the DTs and LBs. They don't get a TFL, but they help limit those 10+ runs to 2-3 yards. It's extremely hard to do because a DE has to quickly determine if it's a run coming towards then, stop their pass rush and anchor against the bigger tackle.

Let's flip it around and just use an example. Some of Quinn's TFLs are from backside pursuit. The run goes to the other side and because the other DE contains the RB, they pause and he can clean it up. Sure he gets the TFL, but without the other DE keeping his contain there wouldn't be a TFL opportunity for Quinn. Full credit for Quinn to keep running, but you really have to respect the work done by that other DE setting up his teammates.

With that being said, I don't think Quinn is bad against the run. He's probably NFL average. His main contributions are as a pass rusher/blind side pursuit, which he does well.
 

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The stat is what it is, a stat that you want to discard out of bias. He had 49 tackles. Do those also not count?
Tell me again about how ypu expect him to have 5 sacks next year and then call me biased.
Do I consider trading him? Sure. I consider trading anyone WHEN THE RETURN IS COMMENSURATE.

You don't fix rosters by constantly being on the wrong end of trades and deals.
 

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Okay guys, I know we can all be victims of the moment and 18.5 sacks was a great season, but let's not forget who Robert Quinn is.

His sack production since coming into the NFL is; 5, 10.5, 19, 10.5, 5, 4, 8.5, 6.5, 11.5, 2 and then 18.5.

He'll be 32 years old and of his 11 nfl seasons he's been able to play 16 games just under 1/2 the time (5 games).

If you are expecting 15+ sacks from a 32 year old Robert Quinn then your expectations don't line up to the history. Just like the 2 sack season in 2020 he'd due to regress to his statistically mean.


The larger theme for the Bears is troubling. Mack will be 31 this season and Quinn will be 32. Just looking at age alone, there's a chance at least one of these guys will be on the decline and also a possibility they both start to regress. Mack has 2 seasons left on his deal and Quinn has 3. Their combined cap hit for this season is ~$47M. With 2 players taking up ~22.6% of your salary cap what's the chances they will both be healthy this or next season?
Good points. What’s the solution then? Do you trade Quinn? Trade Mack? Trade both? Does a new GM look at 22 as a “tank” year to end up with a high pick in 23? Focus on fields development, improving the OL, and shedding older vets on D?
 

NCChiFan

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Would love to see them both on the field next season healthy and battling it put toxins out the answer to the question, who is better?.
 

pdxbearsfan

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Quinn is worthless against the run. He's a better speed rusher but that's literally the only area he's better. Mack is an amazingly well rounded player.
Mack is better all around but Quinn is actually pretty good against the run, look at the stats.
 

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Good points. What’s the solution then? Do you trade Quinn? Trade Mack? Trade both? Does a new GM look at 22 as a “tank” year to end up with a high pick in 23? Focus on fields development, improving the OL, and shedding older vets on D?
I think all options are on the table. For the Bears the 2022 season the 'raw-raw' side will be saying 'we have a chance', but truthfully, it should be about evaluating players, how the coaches work and setting up things for 2023 and beyond.

I do think Fields development should be the most important piece of the puzzle. I'd even hire a coach who has a lot of NFL QB experience (like Doug Pederson). You may end up firing that coach in 2-3 years, but at the bare minimum he should help Fields develop.

Personally I don't think doing a full 'season of tank' does anything to rebuild your franchise. For starters it creates a culture that accepts failure. That's something that's hard to shake off. The second is even when it works, it's not great for the management that decided to do it. Let's look at Sam Hinkie's "Trust the process" with the 76ers. Sure they ended up with a talented roster and many feel it actually worked, but let's not forget, Sam was fired before they were ever good. I can't see a current GM or HC look at that and say 'the best thing I could do is set up the next GM/HC for success'.
 

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Personally I don't think doing a full 'season of tank' does anything to rebuild your franchise. For starters it creates a culture that accepts failure.
That brings up an interesting point. I think that's what got lost in the John Faux era, the roster wasn't top notch by any means. But there were some games that should've been won that simply weren't because of the culture(see 2017 Packers game at SF).

Seems like there was a honeymoon year with MN, where it appeared everyone bought into winning. There were some key additions(Mack,/Burton), but they played well. Too bad that Nagy turned out to be a fraud and his system was a "one and done."
 

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Mack's ass can sack Rodgers...GTFOH with this thread//

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DammitFullerTurnUrHead!

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Okay guys, I know we can all be victims of the moment and 18.5 sacks was a great season, but let's not forget who Robert Quinn is.

His sack production since coming into the NFL is; 5, 10.5, 19, 10.5, 5, 4, 8.5, 6.5, 11.5, 2 and then 18.5.

He'll be 32 years old and of his 11 nfl seasons he's been able to play 16 games just under 1/2 the time (5 games).

If you are expecting 15+ sacks from a 32 year old Robert Quinn then your expectations don't line up to the history. Just like the 2 sack season in 2020 he'd due to regress to his statistically mean.


The larger theme for the Bears is troubling. Mack will be 31 this season and Quinn will be 32. Just looking at age alone, there's a chance at least one of these guys will be on the decline and also a possibility they both start to regress. Mack has 2 seasons left on his deal and Quinn has 3. Their combined cap hit for this season is ~$47M. With 2 players taking up ~22.6% of your salary cap what's the chances they will both be healthy this or next season?
this post has literally nothing to do with the premise of this thread.
 

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