Jimmy Butler

[Spitta Andretti]

Why did they have to let him get away? One of the dumbest moves this franchise has made

 

[Bust]

was 3 for one, no?

Bulls got . . .
Zach = overrated
Markinnen = gone
Dunn = scrub

so yes, bulls got rekt

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

was 3 for one, no?

Bulls got . . .
Zach = overrated
Markinnen = gone
Dunn = scrub

so yes, bulls got rekt

It helped getting rid of garpax so that was a win lol

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

There's no denying that Jimmy is a great player. He's played himself into high level status. (I subscribe to the @Scoot26 thinking on what makes and what does not make a superstar. I do put him in that level, I think he's earned that distinction, but he's on the lower end of that list) The problem with Jimmy always seemed to be his leadership tactics. We saw it in Minnesota, we saw it in Philly. Here with the Bulls, I think if Rose hadn't had those injuries, or if Noah wasn't a shell of himself, or any number of things it could have worked out.

The biggest thing, imo, is the culture of the Miami Heat franchise compared to the other three - much weaker - franchises he's been with.

 

[Scoot26]

Jimmy had a problem with management, and management probably had a problem with him.. Easy to see why he was dealt away. It took him until Miami to stablize anyways. He has problems in Minnesota and Philadelphia as well.

 

[SilenceS]

He didnt want that smoke from Haslam

 

[Scoot26]

There's no denying that Jimmy is a great player. He's played himself into high level status. (I subscribe to the @Scoot26 thinking on what makes and what does not make a superstar. I do put him in that level, I think he's earned that distinction, but he's on the lower end of that list) The problem with Jimmy always seemed to be his leadership tactics. We saw it in Minnesota, we saw it in Philly. Here with the Bulls, I think if Rose hadn't had those injuries, or if Noah wasn't a shell of himself, or any number of things it could have worked out.

The biggest thing, imo, is the culture of the Miami Heat franchise compared to the other three - much weaker - franchises he's been with.

Jimmy is absolutely playing out of his mind in this years playoffs. He played well in the 2020 Bubbleoffs, but this year is another level.

Jimmy is currently averaging more than his regular season numbers in just about everything.
+8.4 ppg
+1.8 rpg
+0.7 spg
-0.1 apg
+9.5 PER
+.126 WS/48
+7.5 BPM

His VORP is lower, but VORP requires more games played to be a better number.

That said, for me, to be a superstar, you also need to show up in the regular season as well as playoffs. This particular season was one of his better seasons put together, and really since he's been in Miami his numbers have overall been solid. But generally he fits into the top 10-15 range, though being much closer to 10. Media voters don't like what they see in him as he's never gotten anything more than All-NBA 3rd. He has not made All-D 1st, despite being pretty well known for defense. So, clearly I'm not the only one who doesn't think super highly of him.

With Harden falling off and the injury to Kawhi, this particular season season we have 7 or 8 (depending on Morant's ascension) superstars, which could make Jimmy a top 10 player in the NBA, he just doesn't meet my particular criteria for superstar. He is close though, he's closer than Jayson Tatum.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Jimmy is absolutely playing out of his mind in this years playoffs. He played well in the 2020 Bubbleoffs, but this year is another level.

Jimmy is currently averaging more than his regular season numbers in just about everything.
+8.4 ppg
+1.8 rpg
+0.7 spg
-0.1 apg
+9.5 PER
+.126 WS/48
+7.5 BPM

His VORP is lower, but VORP requires more games played to be a better number.

That said, for me, to be a superstar, you also need to show up in the regular season as well as playoffs. This particular season was one of his better seasons put together, and really since he's been in Miami his numbers have overall been solid. But generally he fits into the top 10-15 range, though being much closer to 10. Media voters don't like what they see in him as he's never gotten anything more than All-NBA 3rd. He has not made All-D 1st, despite being pretty well known for defense. So, clearly I'm not the only one who doesn't think super highly of him.

With Harden falling off and the injury to Kawhi, this particular season season we have 7 or 8 (depending on Morant's ascension) superstars, which could make Jimmy a top 10 player in the NBA, he just doesn't meet my particular criteria for superstar. He is close though, he's closer than Jayson Tatum.

I don't regard the regular season as much as I do the playoffs. I don't care what a superstar does against the Sacramento Kings on the first night of a road trip in January. Against the Warriors, yes.

 

[Scoot26]

I don't regard the regular season as much as I do the playoffs. I don't care what a superstar does against the Sacramento Kings on the first night of a road trip in January. Against the Warriors, yes.

Well, that's what makes you and me different. All of this ends up quite subjective.

I don't care what anyone does against the Sacramento Kings per say, but I like to look at their overall game in the regular season. Everyone else I consider a superstar is able to produce superstar worthy numbers in the regular season. Jimmy cannot.

If Jimmy leads Miami to a title while maintaining these numbers the entire playoffs? Maybe I modify my thinking, but I also don't really reward players for one off's, otherwise Paul George would be a superstar for his 2018-19 season. But Jimmy is also doing something so incredibly rare in NBA history here.

 

[Rush]

I don't think our front office now would have let him go. You must remember we had quite an inept one prior to our current regime. I shall never forgive those fucks.

 

[Scoot26]

I don't think our front office now would have let him go. You must remember we had quite an inept one prior to our current regime. I shall never forgive those fucks.

Our current management likely would have a solid relationship with Jimmy. I'm not sure if they're on par with the culture that Miami has (not many teams have that), but it would seem they'd do more to make their player happy and egos wouldn't get to them like it did with Gar Forman.

 

[Bust]

this was the end when Butler called out the soft coach

________

I believe in the guys in this locker room, yeah, but I also believe that we probably have to be coached a lot harder at times," Butler told reporters in December 2015. "I know Fred is a laid-back guy and I respect him for that, but when guys aren't doing what they're supposed to do, you gotta get on guys, myself included. You gotta do what you're supposed to do when you're out there playing basketball."

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

The hiring of Fred Hoiberg goes along with the piss poor management the Bulls had for the previous dozen years prior to the incident.

 

[Enasic]

this was the end when Butler called out the soft coach

________

I believe in the guys in this locker room, yeah, but I also believe that we probably have to be coached a lot harder at times," Butler told reporters in December 2015. "I know Fred is a laid-back guy and I respect him for that, but when guys aren't doing what they're supposed to do, you gotta get on guys, myself included. You gotta do what you're supposed to do when you're out there playing basketball."

Jimmy would likely have similar sentiments towards BD, tbh

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Jimmy is a 'bottom to the top' success story. Started out homeless as a 13 year-old. Made it to the NBA as the 30th pick of the draft and was thought to be a "defender". Then was looked at as a steal but people kept saying he would never be more than a B-guy, then becomes the best player on the Bulls and T-Wolves. Wouldn't be able to lead a team to a title as the best player. Then he leads the Heat to the Finals and comes 2 wins away. Now his team has just as good of a chance as anyone.

I think, like Jordan, his perceived nasty attitude is apart of the package that makes him such a great player. He plays with that edge and constantly wants to prove people wrong. He is likely to be the hardest worker in the NBA and doesn't tolerate any less from his teammates. That doesn't make him a cancer- that makes him a winner. Look at how he raises his game every post season.

 

[Bust]

Jimmy is a 'bottom to the top' success story. Started out homeless as a 13 year-old. Made it to the NBA as the 30th pick of the draft and was thought to be a "defender". Then was looked at as a steal but people kept saying he would never be more than a B-guy, then becomes the best player on the Bulls and T-Wolves. Wouldn't be able to lead a team to a title as the best player. Then he leads the Heat to the Finals and comes 2 wins away. Now his team has just as good of a chance as anyone.

I think, like Jordan, his perceived nasty attitude is apart of the package that makes him such a great player. He plays with that edge and constantly wants to prove people wrong. He is likely to be the hardest worker in the NBA and doesn't tolerate any less from his teammates. That doesn't make him a cancer- that makes him a winner. Look at how he raises his game every post season.

It's why Jimmy and Karl Anthony Townes didn't get along at Minnesota. KAT was untouchable due to his draft status. Jimmy thought of him as a lazy bastard, lol.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

It's why Jimmy and Karl Anthony Townes didn't get along at Minnesota. KAT was untouchable due to his draft status. Jimmy thought of him as a lazy bastard, lol.

Bulls, T-Wolves, and Sixers all f'd up by letting him go. Bulls fell off the map without him. Wolves were crap before he got there, were floating around the 4th seed in a stacked West while he was there/healthy, and were crap again after he left. And the Sixers were only legit looking while Butler was there. Choosing LaVine over him was stupid. Choosing Towns/Wiggins over him was stupid. Choosing Simmons/Harris over him was stupid. And JB definitely used that as motivation.

 

[Bust]

Jimmy Butler talked major trash to Karl-Anthony Towns at end of Heat-Wolves

Jimmy Butler still won’t let up on his beef with Karl-Anthony Towns all these years later.

www.sbnation.com

 

[Scoot26]

Bulls, T-Wolves, and Sixers all f'd up by letting him go. Bulls fell off the map without him. Wolves were crap before he got there, were floating around the 4th seed in a stacked West while he was there/healthy, and were crap again after he left. And the Sixers were only legit looking while Butler was there. Choosing LaVine over him was stupid. Choosing Towns/Wiggins over him was stupid. Choosing Simmons/Harris over him was stupid. And JB definitely used that as motivation.

Sixers have basically matched as far as they went with Butler.. Game 7 2nd Round. I'd argue they've been legit 2 out of the last 3 years, if we're judging the 2018-19 team as legit. I think they would have been much better with Jimmy vs Harris, but it is what it is. He found his spot in Miami.

Had Jimmy stayed in Chicago, he would have just left via free agency when the time came after 2018-19. Probably still ends up in Miami.

However things may have just gone so far bad in Chicago had he stayed, his value may have been minimal.

 

[clonetrooper264]

People weren't jawing as much when the Heat got bounced in the first round last year. Jimmy forced his way out of 3 franchises before settling in Miami, he's not without his flaws. Having an insane playoffs for sure though.