Justin Feilds/Jalen Hurts

[dbldrew]

If you're panicking at this point, it's because you have no patience. It's not as bad as it looks imo. I watched the all-22, and he's still behind, still waiting a tick too long to throw sometimes, but he's not missing things by a LOT. Sometimes he's waiting for the perfect time to throw, and it never comes. Then the play goes to shit. He hasn't quite progressed to where he's looking at a read and going "that's NFL open, rip it". It's like sometimes he's waiting for guys to become college open. I think changing how he sees "open" will come with more reps.

I'm about to post some stuff from a source that I like. I watched the tape, thought it didn't look as bad. Then watched his reaction, which was basically the same. So I don't feel GOOD about it, but I don't feel like we're doomed. He still needs to get better, but he's closer than most people think.

I'm not panicking at this point. I had no faith in Ryan Paces ability to identify QB talent so I had no faith in Fields to begin with so I was fully prepared to be in this position. I would be in Panic mode if Pace was still here.. but at least with Pace gone I'm not as worried that we cant fix the problem sooner rather then later..

 

[playthrough2001]

because Marino developed faster then Elway and Young? at least comparing them to each other makes sense because its the same era. Comparing a QB from this era to that one does not make sense because its a different animal. The fact is that Fields would be doing much worse in that era (not that he could do much worse but the point still stands) QBs are protected now.. WRs are protected now.. That makes it easier to develop. So pointing to a QB that struggled early in his career in the era that was brutal to the QB and WR has no real bearing on today for comparison.

The skills required to play the position are the same now as they were then. Defenses being allowed more latitude doesn’t change the fact a QB needs to learn to read defenses, get the ball out on schedule, be accurate, and have the ability to win inside and outside the pocket.

Marino came into the NFL with that skillset. So did Kelly.

Young and Elway found a lot of success in college based on their superior athleticism. They had to work hard to hone their skills in the NFL. It didn’t come easy for either of them.

Fields will have to do the exact same thing to be successful in the NFL.

Fields is exactly the same type of player that Young and Elway were coming into the league.
In the past, he’s found a ton of success making plays “off schedule.” The only QB I can think of that had sustained success playing that style in the NFL is Big Ben.

Fields has to learn how to play the position.

Your hangup on era v the skillset required to succeed, makes it difficult to take you seriously.

 

[dbldrew]

The skills required to play the position are the same now as they were then. Defenses being allowed more latitude doesn’t change the fact a QB needs to learn to read defenses, get the ball out on schedule, be accurate, and have the ability to win inside and outside the pocket.

Skills required to play are generally the same, but thats not what we are talking about. We are talking about learning the position and producing at a high level in the era that it was much harder to play that position. Its like you are comparing playing a video game against your older brother who was playing on hard while you have it on easy and thinking how long both of you took to beat a level is somehow comparable..

Young and Elway had the game on hard.. Fields has it on easy, trying to compare them is dumb.

 

[airtime143]

That’s a ridiculous assessment. Regardless of era, I provided comparisons of great players that played in that era and developed on different timetables. Elway and Young struggled at all facets of playing QB except running.

The guys with incredible athleticism that were used to winning outside the pocket, took more time.

Marino and Kelly had pocket presence and hit the ground running. Kelly had two amazing seasons in the USFL and didn’t miss a beat in the NFL.

By the way, Steve Young struggled in the USFL too. He threw more picks than TDs before moving to the NFL where he continued to struggle until Bill Walsh taught him how to play the position.

Let’s move to this era…. Josh Allen couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn when they drafted him.
Now he has a great line, he’s in an offense crafted for him, he’s been coached hard, has incredible weapons to work with, and now might be the best player in the NFL.

Era absolutely does matter.

Marino was a god. He put up numbers that would fit right in to today's nfl back in the 80s.

Elway on the other hand had his first pro bowl nod in 86. (At a time when pro bowl nods actually meant something)
He had a rating of 79.
19 tds and 13 picks.

Compare a 79 rating to today, that is bust level incompetence.

However, in 86, not a single pro bowl qb had a 93 or above rating.

Why is this important?
When you look at elways rate+, he was an above average passer in 3 of his first 4 years as a full time starter, and the fourth year he had a 94... very slightly below average.

Elway was comparatively "struggling" like Ben roethlisberger "struggled", but elways could move like kaepernick or Tebow.


Funny enough, both elway and fields had a 75 rate + their first season.

For an apples to apples development arc, fields needs to improve greatly this year in order to match elway.... to reach the benchmark that you refer to as struggling.

As it stands, fields rate+ at this point is in the neighborhood of 40. Elway was at 102 in his second season.

Eras matter when comparing numbers, but comparison to contemporary players is where you really get a taste of talent.
Elway was average or slightly above as a passer in year 2.
Fields.... not so much.

 

[playthrough2001]

Skills required to play are generally the same, but thats not what we are talking about. We are talking about learning the position and producing at a high level in the era that it was much harder to play that position. Its like you are comparing playing a video game against your older brother who was playing on hard while you have it on easy and thinking how long both of you took to beat a level is somehow comparable..

Young and Elway had the game on hard.. Fields has it on easy, trying to compare them is dumb.

The skill required to play the position is exactly what I’m comparing. Young wasn’t effective until he turned 30! Elway wasn’t a factor until his 4th season at 26. We’ll chalk that up to the time they played even though it had zero effect on Marino or Kelly.

Fields will have to turn it around quicker than that since this is an ”easier era” to play QB but he has to master the nuances of the position just like Elway, Young and Allen.

Current QBs face defenders that are bigger, faster and far more athletic than anything Elway or Young had to deal with. That factors too.

 

[playthrough2001]

Era absolutely does matter.

Marino was a god. He put up numbers that would fit right in to today's nfl back in the 80s.

Elway on the other hand had his first pro bowl nod in 86. (At a time when pro bowl nods actually meant something)
He had a rating of 79.
19 tds and 13 picks.

Compare a 79 rating to today, that is bust level incompetence.

However, in 86, not a single pro bowl qb had a 93 or above rating.

Why is this important?
When you look at elways rate+, he was an above average passer in 3 of his first 4 years as a full time starter, and the fourth year he had a 94... very slightly below average.

Elway was comparatively "struggling" like Ben roethlisberger "struggled", but elways could move like kaepernick or Tebow.


Funny enough, both elway and fields had a 75 rate + their first season.

For an apples to apples development arc, fields needs to improve greatly this year in order to match elway.... to reach the benchmark that you refer to as struggling.

As it stands, fields rate+ at this point is in the neighborhood of 40. Elway was at 102 in his second season.

Eras matter when comparing numbers, but comparison to contemporary players is where you really get a taste of talent.
Elway was average or slightly above as a passer in year 2.
Fields.... not so much.

Elway had a difficult time processing at the NFL level. He didn’t know how to play the position. He had the physical skillset but was not mentally ready to start. He was benched periodically for Gary Kubiak.

Young was a fucking disaster. He was deemed a bust at Tampa Bay and finally pulled it together under the tutelage of the greatest coach in the history of the NFL.

Marino and Kelly didn’t struggle because they came into the with the league with the proper set of skills needed for immediate success.

Fields might suck but he’s cut from the same cloth as Elway, Young and Josh Allen. It’s up to him to turn it around, of course with help from the coaching staff and front office.

 

[TezMaKai]

Did Hurts struggle to throw for 80 yards a game consistently last season?

I think you're taking yards too seriously. Hurts had Devonta Smith and arguably the best pass blocking o line in the NFL last year and still put up putrid numbers like this.

Let's see if Fields puts up better numbers against the Giants than Jalen did just 9 months ago.

 

[TezMaKai]

1. It's Jalen Hurts not Jaylon Hurts.

2. Jalen Hurts looked a lot of better than his stats showed last year.

3. Hurt showed flashes he can be a good QB, we're still waiting on JF to do that. Fans keep comparing him to Manning, Allen, and other QB's who struggled early but don't realize they did some things really well early on that caused the team to stick with them. Fields has yet to do that.

4. Watch Jalen Hurts last season.

Did he look better than the stats would suggest in this game that happened just 9 months ago?

 

[Aesopian]

Did he look better than the stats would suggest in this game that happened just 9 months ago?

View attachment 22926

Oh wow QB's have bad games. Lol

 

[Mdbearz]

Here are Jalen Hurts' numbers from his first 4 starts of his second season (2021) --

• 27/35 for 264 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs
• 12/23 for 190 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs
• 25/39 for 326 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs
• 32/48 for 387 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs

Now, to be fair, his numbers got significantly worse as that season went along until he bounced back in his last 3 or so starts, but the point is Hurts showed a heck of a lot more at the same relative point in his career than we're seeing.

I like the way Hurts has improved, but make no mistake, the Eagles fan base (I live in Northern Maryland , and work with a few fans) was ready to move on at the end of last year,even with his final few games.

Another point is that the play calling was a much different approach. Just look at the attempts in those 4 games.....

Not sure if that means they do not trust Justin or the o-line or if it is simply the way they are going to approach the season

 

[TezMaKai]

Oh wow QB's have bad games. Lol

Yep, exactly. Especially when learning a new offense with receivers that aren't even replacement level.

How about this game? Is 35% completion percentage with 72 yards and being benched for Nate Sudfeld after the 3rd quarter a successful game?

Eagles fans (particularly racist Eagles fans) were loud last year about Jalen Hurts being a bust, but a few of the intelligent fans knew his potential.

@Aesopian @EDPeezy

 

[EDPeezy]

Elway had a difficult time processing at the NFL level. He didn’t know how to play the position. He had the physical skillset but was not mentally ready to start. He was benched periodically for Gary Kubiak.

Young was a fucking disaster. He was deemed a bust at Tampa Bay and finally pulled it together under the tutelage of the greatest coach in the history of the NFL.

Marino and Kelly didn’t struggle because they came into the with the league with the proper set of skills needed for immediate success.

Fields might suck but he’s cut from the same cloth as Elway, Young and Josh Allen. It’s up to him to turn it around, of course with help from the coaching staff and front office.

What makes him Elway, Young and Allen? Your wishful thinking? What evidence is there that this is the case? I’d say he looks more like Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell.

 

[TezMaKai]

What makes him Elway, Young and Allen? Your wishful thinking? What evidence is there that this is the case? I’d say he looks more like Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell.

That's because you're a stupid dumbass. What evidence was there that Elway, Young, & Allen would be something? Should we continue the revolving door at QB while failing to address the other offensive deficiencies that are setting up all of those QBs for failure?

 

[Aesopian]

Yep, exactly. Especially when learning a new offense with receivers that aren't even replacement level.

How about this game? Is 35% completion percentage with 72 yards and being benched for Nate Sudfeld after the 3rd quarter a successful game?

Eagles fans were loud last year about Jalen Hurts being a bust, but a few of the intelligent fans knew his potential.

Why are you repeating the same information? Yes QB's have bad games. Fields needs to play better on the field otherwise he'll continue to be labeled a bust.

I'm hopeful he does turn it around but with Getsy, a bad offensive line, and bad WR's its highly improbable. Fields has been put under overwhelming odds stacked against him.

 

[Aesopian]

That's because you're a stupid dumbass. What evidence was there that Elway, Young, & Allen would be something? Should we continue the revolving door at QB while failing to address the other offensive deficiencies that are setting up all of those QBs for failure?

Why are you so emotional? You seem like you're on the verge of tears. Go outside.

 

[TezMaKai]

Why are you repeating the same information? Yes QB's have bad games. Fields needs to play better on the field otherwise he'll continue to be labeled a bust.

I'm hopeful he does turn it around but with Getsy, a bad offensive line, and bad WR's its highly improbable. Fields has been put under overwhelming odds stacked against him.

It's not the same information, dumbass. You said that quarterbacks have "A" bad game so I shared another example from last year where he got benched for Nate Sudfeld.

Are you really this stupid?

 

[TezMaKai]

Why are you so emotional? You seem like you're on the verge of tears. Go outside.

I'd say you should do the same. Has your mom ungrounded you yet?

 

[Aesopian]

It's not the same information, dumbass. You said that quarterbacks have "A" bad game so I shared another example from last year where he got benched for Nate Sudfeld.

Are you really this stupid?

No this is my quote " Oh wow QB's have bad games. Lol"

That implies more that one games. If you're going to lie i see no reason to continue this conversation.

 

[EDPeezy]

That's because you're a stupid dumbass. What evidence was there that Elway, Young, & Allen would be something? Should we continue the revolving door at QB while failing to address the other offensive deficiencies that are setting up all of those QBs for failure?

Watching you go around insulting people in every thread because a guy can’t play football is one of the more funny/pathetic things I’ve seen in a while. You’re a child I’m assuming. it’s entertaining watching your world crumble because your idol looks like a bust. The lashing out like a child, the insults that make you sound like you’re 12. It’s all great. You honestly sound like you’re about to cry.

 

[Aesopian]

I'd say you should do the same. Has your mom ungrounded you yet?

Why would I go outside your Mom makes the best cookies.

Ps stay out of my OJ you little shit.