K.Whyte the real sleeper?

[Burque]

We do have a lot of competition at RB and receiver and i love how Nagy likes to spread the targets around but i think he tries to spread it around too much. Our #1 WR should be ARob who should definitely hit 1,000 yds with plenty of targets and catches with i think A.Miller being the next receiver to have the most targets and then Gabriel should be that speed guy that you throw the bombs to like he's been his whole career until last year. T.Burton should obviously be the #1 TE and D.Montgomery being the #1 RB and T.Cohen being that guy that can do some of everything. When we get in the red zone Shaheen should always be in the game whether it's blocking to run the ball in or that big target in the end zone. Damn we really do have a shit ton of offensive weapons.

In my opinion you have a few things wrong here. I think AntMill earns the #1 receiver spot above Robinson (although not week one) and his stats show this at the end of the season. I think that Davis is the starting RB at the beginning of the season. I think both of these roles will start with one guy as the #1 and their roles will change over the course of the season with Montgomery taking a significant role in the last half of the season. Also, Shaheen Gronks his babies all over this mofo.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

Wouldn't a 7th round pick not making the team really just be a throw away? I mean it's a 7th round pick so it's not like they're expected to make the 53.

That's exactly what Bearly says. I have no idea what "expectations" are on a 7th round pick if NOT making the 53. No one has actually answered that yet.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

This cannot be true......it just can't.

That part was supposed to be "I don't own a smartphone" and I assure you it is true. I own a phone with no service but keep it charged for emergencies because 911 is free and transcends phone service companies.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

It really doesn't matter if he's technically listed as a WR or a RB. He takes up a spot on the roster from those position groups. We can only keep so many RBs and WRs. A couple ate going to be the odd men out...

Well it does matter considering the positions for the others (ie Davis and Montgomery cannot possibly be WR and Gabriel cannot possibly be a RB in terms of scheme responsibilities)

No shit though ... a couple are going to be the odd men out you say?

And that means Whyte has a chance to make the 53 right?

So when I said if he doesn't make the 53 he will be a bust (low grade due to low round sure) your post in reply was dumb:

Are you really saying that if a 7th round pick isn't able to beat out the talent on a SB contending roster, that player is a bust? Really???

You're going to see a LOT of busts for this team going forward, I'm afraid!

Do you get it now? 4th RB is open for competition and Whyte may or may not make the 53. If he does, good for him (I doubt it) If he doesn't and makes the PS I believe he will get poached by another team. If he doesn't make the 53, he is a low-grade bust imo.

Your original post was an attempt at mocking my stance yet you yourself just admitted "a couple [of RB/WR] are going to be the odd men out" which is exactly what my whole point was.

 

[Bearly]

It's not exactly what I say but expectations are set by former trends. You also said he'd be a bust if he didn't make our 53 which is even sillier. I expect him to be on our Practice Squad. You think that's an impossibility. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think we'd both like him to make the 53 but I suspect PS is more realistic with the way our position numbers are looking. The only way I see him getting snatched is from a team that has a great need for a kick returner specialist but with the current kicking rules, that's also become less likely.

 

[Bearly]

Well it does matter considering the positions for the others (ie Davis and Montgomery cannot possibly be WR and Gabriel cannot possibly be a RB in terms of scheme responsibilities)

No shit though ... a couple are going to be the odd men out you say?

And that means Whyte has a chance to make the 53 right?

So when I said if he doesn't make the 53 he will be a bust (low grade due to low round sure) your post in reply was dumb:



Do you get it now? 4th RB is open for competition and Whyte may or may not make the 53. If he does, good for him (I doubt it) If he doesn't and makes the PS I believe he will get poached by another team. If he doesn't make the 53, he is a low-grade bust imo.

Your original post was an attempt at mocking my stance yet you yourself just admitted "a couple [of RB/WR] are going to be the odd men out" which is exactly what my whole point was.

We only had 3 RB roster spots at the final 53 last year and that is by far the norm for NFL teams. Whyte won't get one of those. Patterson may take the spot we used on a FB last year as the extra guy on O. We probably keep 6 WRs beyond Patterson. They will move guys around after that and activate from the PS as needed. Are you aware that Patterson had almost as many rush yards as catch yards last year? May swing the other way with Nagy and he signed here because of that. All that said, if Whyte explodes in the pre and we don't want to lose him, he may still make the roster at the risk of someone else. Nice problem to have.

We will probably want to keep Wims which we protected last year and Hall this year. We have Wims, AR, Ridley, Hall, Gabriel and Miller. We protected Wims last year and Hall is as good a prospect as Whyte. We likely keep 10 guys between WR, RB and FB so it may come down to Whyte vs Hall but we still also have Nall to consider who could actually fill the FB/HB spot which would take them both out. It will depend on who Pace thinks he can sneak through and what numbers they choose but almost every team goes with a combo of 10 at those spots.

 

[Visionman]

Well, i didn't post to mock you. No need to do that, as your own posts do the job for me.

Have fun continuing to complain that a 7th round pick may not impact the team in his rookie year...lol

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

In my opinion you have a few things wrong here. I think AntMill earns the #1 receiver spot above Robinson (although not week one) and his stats show this at the end of the season. I think that Davis is the starting RB at the beginning of the season. I think both of these roles will start with one guy as the #1 and their roles will change over the course of the season with Montgomery taking a significant role in the last half of the season. Also, Shaheen Gronks his babies all over this mofo.

Disagree with bolded. Miller is # 1 slot and Robinson is # 1 outside. Gabriel took outside a lot last year and if Miller goes outside it would be to switch things up with Gabriel not ARob from what I remember of how Nagy does things.

I think Davis is the starting RB going into TC and preseason but I think Nagy is going to "committee" the RBs a lot with WRs like Miller, Gabriel and Patterson (cough cough) doing their sweeps and end arounds.

I think Montgomery is going to be the # 1 RB assigned with "clean up" work
ie when we are ahead or
we need to kill the clock or
we need to go old school in scheme design like when Trubisky is hurt (LA Rams) or pass protection is not trusted (MIN)

then Montgomery is the feature: a RB capable of pounding holes but unlike Howard, the D can't go 8 or 9 in the box and get burnt by quick passes that Montgomery could get YAC off of where Howard could not.

TL;DR - I think no RB will be "starter" in traditional sense. I think Nagy will rotate due to game situations and Montgomery will be featured more often than the others.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

It's not exactly what I say but expectations are set by former trends. You also said he'd be a bust if he didn't make our 53 which is even sillier. I expect him to be on our Practice Squad. You think that's an impossibility. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think we'd both like him to make the 53 but I suspect PS is more realistic with the way our position numbers are looking. The only way I see him getting snatched is from a team that has a great need for a kick returner specialist but with the current kicking rules, that's also become less likely.

Actually expectations are put on the player by the HC and GM which may or may not match expectations by fans and media. It is news to me that a draft pick has no expectations by the coaches and management. I had been using "bust" in the traditional sense of the word

ie I applied for flight school but busted out due to poor eyesight etc.

I forgot I was on CCS though and my application to using "bust" for failing to make an NFL team as a draft pick is "silly" ... somehow?

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

We only had 3 RB roster spots at the final 53 last year and that is by far the norm for NFL teams. Whyte won't get one of those. Patterson will take the spot we used on a FB last year as the extra guy on O. We probably keep 6 WRs beyond Patterson. They will move guys around after that. Are you aware that Patterson had almost as many rush yards as catch yards last year? May swing the other way with Nagy and he signed here because of that.

So Patterson IS a RB according to Nagy, ok. I must have missed that and that seems bizarre but ok. What's your point in re: to Whyte being a sleeper though. That since Patterson is a RB, Whyte has no chance of making the 53?? Or he still does? How does the chat change with this alleged new info on a position change by Patterson?

EDIT: Disregard my asking what your point was. I hit reply while you were editing and you clarified your post.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

Well, i didn't post to mock you. No need to do that, as your own posts do the job for me.

Have fun continuing to complain that a 7th round pick may not impact the team in his rookie year...lol

I am actually not complaing rather doubting he makes it but impressed with his speed and kinda hope he has something else so he can.

I am having fun talking about this though in a thread literally titled about whether or not Whyte is a sleeper pick

Thanks for your well wishes

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

We only had 3 RB roster spots at the final 53 last year and that is by far the norm for NFL teams. Whyte won't get one of those. Patterson will take the spot we used on a FB last year as the extra guy on O. We probably keep 6 WRs beyond Patterson. They will move guys around after that. Are you aware that Patterson had almost as many rush yards as catch yards last year? May swing the other way with Nagy and he signed here because of that. All that said, if Whyte explodes in the pre and we don't want to lose him, he may still make the roster at the risk of someone else. Nice problem to have.

I had replied when your post was different before your edit

 

[dabears70]

That's exactly what Bearly says. I have no idea what "expectations" are on a 7th round pick if NOT making the 53. No one has actually answered that yet.

I don't know but i would think that even if he made the practice squad then that's a good thing for a 7th round pick, but i actually think he makes the 53 even though that's obviously just a very uneducated guess because there's no way for me to know how this kid or any of the young kids will adjust to the next level.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

We only had 3 RB roster spots at the final 53 last year and that is by far the norm for NFL teams. Whyte won't get one of those. Patterson will take the spot we used on a FB last year as the extra guy on O. We probably keep 6 WRs beyond Patterson. They will move guys around after that. Are you aware that Patterson had almost as many rush yards as catch yards last year? May swing the other way with Nagy and he signed here because of that. All that said, if Whyte explodes in the pre and we don't want to lose him, he may still make the roster at the risk of someone else. Nice problem to have.

I am aware of Patterson's rushing yards yes. Are you aware that he did that by NOT lining up in the backfield crouched and waiting for a handoff but instead was mainly running across the LOS with more momentum than any defender on designed misdirected plays geared to use his running start as an advantage?

My point here is I believe you read Nagy will make him RB ok but I highly doubt Nagy has him line up at RB or else it would be a waste imo. I am now thinking you are right:

RB/WR kinda merged but ONLY for certain players like Patterson, Whyte (if he makes it),

others like Robinson and Montgomery are clear WR and RB respectively especially in terms of where they line up and scheme responsibilities

 

[dabears70]

Well it does matter considering the positions for the others (ie Davis and Montgomery cannot possibly be WR and Gabriel cannot possibly be a RB in terms of scheme responsibilities)

No shit though ... a couple are going to be the odd men out you say?

And that means Whyte has a chance to make the 53 right?

So when I said if he doesn't make the 53 he will be a bust (low grade due to low round sure) your post in reply was dumb:



Do you get it now? 4th RB is open for competition and Whyte may or may not make the 53. If he does, good for him (I doubt it) If he doesn't and makes the PS I believe he will get poached by another team. If he doesn't make the 53, he is a low-grade bust imo.

Your original post was an attempt at mocking my stance yet you yourself just admitted "a couple [of RB/WR] are going to be the odd men out" which is exactly what my whole point was.

So if he makes our PS but gets poached by another team then he wouldn't be considered a bust......right? Ummmmm shit i don't know but the kid is a 7th round pick so there really isn't much expectation for him since there never really is for 7th round picks, at least by fans, but the people that actually did the work to scout him and watch all the tape and to use a draft pick on him could have a very different thought about that and one we would never know.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

I don't know but i would think that even if he made the practice squad then that's a good thing for a 7th round pick, but i actually think he makes the 53 even though that's obviously just a very uneducated guess because there's no way for me to know how this kid or any of the young kids will adjust to the next level.

See I don't. If he gets poached, he is gone period. But forget whether or not he gets poached, as a matter of fact let's assume Bearly is right and he does NOT get poached with that jaw-dropping speed, ok.

Does he make the 53 eventually? What if he can't develop better NFL level vision and cuts? I mean NEVER can. Did he "bust" out of the NFL? Did he meet expectations for the coach? For himself?

No one in theiright mind would give Pace a black mark on his record for taking a flier on Whyte. Not for that one draft pick, no. But that's not the same as saying he wouldn't be a bust.

 

[Bearly]

So Patterson IS a RB according to Nagy, ok. I must have missed that and that seems bizarre but ok. What's your point in re: to Whyte being a sleeper though. That since Patterson is a RB, Whyte has no chance of making the 53?? Or he still does? How does the chat change with this alleged new info on a position change by Patterson?

EDIT: Disregard my asking what your point was. I hit reply while you were editing and you clarified your post.

Thanks. I am trying to make it clear as final cuts gets complex. Thought more info would be better for less misunderstanding. Patteson doesn't take a RB spot. we usually only keep 3. It simply depends if on what we do with FB. If we use Nall, lose it for Whyte or Patterson and what happens to Hall. It's always a #s game along with who you think you can sneak through vs actual value. Good players sometimes get waived simply because there isn't room on a roster.

 

[dabears70]

We only had 3 RB roster spots at the final 53 last year and that is by far the norm for NFL teams. Whyte won't get one of those. Patterson may take the spot we used on a FB last year as the extra guy on O. We probably keep 6 WRs beyond Patterson. They will move guys around after that and activate from the PS as needed. Are you aware that Patterson had almost as many rush yards as catch yards last year? May swing the other way with Nagy and he signed here because of that. All that said, if Whyte explodes in the pre and we don't want to lose him, he may still make the roster at the risk of someone else. Nice problem to have.

We will probably want to keep Wims which we protected last year and Hall this year. We have Wims, AR, Ridley, Hall, Gabriel and Miller. We protected Wims last year and Hall is as good a prospect as Whyte. We likely keep 10 guys between WR, RB and FB so it may come down to Whyte vs Hall but we still also have Nall to consider who could actually fill the FB/HB spot which would take them both out. It will depend on who Pace thinks he can sneak through and what numbers they choose but almost every team goes with a combo of 10 at those spots.

Well if we only keep 3 RB's then i change what i just said about him making the 53 because i thought we kept 4 at times last year especially the 2nd half with Howard, Cohen, Benny and Mizzell but there's no way Whyte beats out any one of Montgomery, M.Davis or T.Cohen. Unless M.Davis isn't what they thought he was gonna be or K.Whyte just simply shows out in TC and preseason then i could see them giving much more thought to K.Whyte over M.Davis. Not sure how excited i'd be to have two rookies in our only 3 RB's we have on the 53 but the kid has talent so i'll be excited to see what he does.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

So if he makes our PS but gets poached by another team then he wouldn't be considered a bust......right? Ummmmm shit i don't know but the kid is a 7th round pick so there really isn't much expectation for him since there never really is for 7th round picks, at least by fans,

yes and nor should there be expectations from fans as the 7th round typically is a crapshoot when it comes to making the team.

But we were talking on two different levels: fans like you and the player himself which is where I was viewing things.

I am sure he has expectations on himself to DO this and make it. He has to imo to even HAVE the slim chance he has.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

or K.Whyte just simply shows out in TC and preseason then i could see them giving much more thought to K.Whyte over M.Davis. .

Yes. This. If Whyte can show NFL level cuts and moveswith timing along with that speed, then he would be an historic steal. And no one would give a fuck who is cut for him.

It's also why it's so hard to believe it will happen.