Larry Legend Underrated?

[ijustposthere]

I think LeBron acts the way he does due to the rules of the game. He's smart, he's not going to deck a guy a risk a 20 game suspension.

It's not like the 1980s where you could literally punch a guy and maybe only get a technical (depending on the punch). If you were suspended then, it was small. It wasn't until the Heat and Knicks started brawling all the time that suspensions became more serious and consequential. And when you had Ron Artest and the Malice at the Palace in 2004, and then Carmelo Anthony's sucker punch at the Garden in 2006, you had two very big changing events when it came to fighting and discipline in the NBA. Honestly the Palace fight was something completely unseen before and the NBA knew you had to have drastic actions. The fact Ron Artest is mentally insane and didn't even understand what he had done afterwards, you had to punish the crap out of him.

Carmelo's sucker punch in 2006 landed him a 15 game suspension, while Nate Rob and JR Smith ended up fighting spilling into the crowd and got 10 game suspensions.

Meanwhile go back to the 1994 playoffs between the Bulls and Knicks and you had a fight spill into the crowd literally in front of the Commissioner.. you had a one game suspension... granted suspensions are different in the playoffs, but I feel like today they'd be suspended the rest of the series and into the next.

But that's just fighting. There have been other rule changes that ease things up on defense, more things are a foul. Add in there's been a lot of science done on recovery, extending your shelf life, and such that those are things LeBron is going for. I also don't think LeBron has ever had Jordan's mentality of everything is a competition and he lacks that drive Jordan had. I think he just likes playing basketball, uses his talents to the best of his ability, and is very intelligent about it. Those three things he has in common with Jordan, but he doesn't have that same drive Jordan has. And he doesn't have the pissed off motivation of things said about him in the media, or by other people.

I wasn't talking about fighting, I was talking about the flopping, and the whole chasing rings things. That's kind of bitch shit. These guys cry too much now honestly. And yeah, LeBron doesn't have that mentality. A lot of these guys don't have the same mentality of the guys in the prior eras. That's why I don't understand the comparison to MJ. He's not even better than Kobe IMO.

As to your 80s thing, yeah, people think it's just a bunch of unskilled athletes.

 

[Scoot26]

I wasn't talking about fighting, I was talking about the flopping, and the whole chasing rings things. That's kind of bitch shit. These guys cry too much now honestly. And yeah, LeBron doesn't have that mentality. A lot of these guys don't have the same mentality of the guys in the prior eras. That's why I don't understand the comparison to MJ. He's not even better than Kobe IMO.

As to your 80s thing, yeah, people think it's just a bunch of unskilled athletes.

Flopping is the result of competition / rule changes. You were punished for being tough, so the next step became flopping to get calls. This took a lot of bruisers out of their game/element.

The only problem the 80s really has is talent was more condensed.. meaning there were a lot of top heavy teams and then a lot of awful teams. The East had the power that we see mostly in the West in recent times in the 80s. The Celtics and Sixers were the two main top dogs, with the Bucks fielding many good teams, and then the Pistons rising later in the decade.

The West was essentially the Lakers and a bunch of mediocre teams for most of the decade. The playoffs were often a cakewalk for the Lakers, which is why they made the Finals every year except 1981, and 1986. 1981 was more a result of Magic hating the coach and thus not giving it his all. For the Lakers, it was equivalent to LeBron and the Eastern Conference of the last decade. Weak competition.

The Rockets shot up after getting Hakeem, but then fell off when Sampson started getting hurt. By the late 80s, the Jazz came into view, though could never get over the top.. the Blazers also started to peak at the end of the decade.

 

[Crystallas]

People now think that era was weak and unskilled as well, which I find pretty odd.

They weren't alive or old enough to remember. Basketball went from a dying novelty sport to becoming the first team sport in a century to come close to Soccer as the most played sport worldwide thanks to 3 players. This is the hype era, everyone needs to be a brand because of what Jordan did. And just the same, player endorsed equipment was mostly junk. For every good Ted Williams mitt, you had 50 Jose Canseco big sticks. "tell me, you didn't pay money for this."

Sad thing is, while Magic had signature Weapons and Magic shoes, Bird never had a signature shoe. He wore whatever hot thing Converse had, from Dr Js/Pros to Cons, but not a single Larry Bird model or custom. Such a shame. Thus his brand appeal to younger or present-era observers is tiny compared to someone who pumps out a whole line of products. A whole era of people in developing nations, new to something, mass producing the *thing*, and then looking up wtf is the relevancy of said thing. Stuff like that does matter.

 

[SilenceS]

That's one what if I often wonder about... if Jordan didn't retire and they meet the Rockets in the Finals in 94.. what happens. Of course the Bulls being in the Finals for the 4th straight year likely takes a heavy toll on the Bulls, not to mention all the media shit still happening with Jordan, but ignoring that.. it would be interesting to see how that series plays out. Jordan never did face a true superstar center in the Finals, he was 1-1 vs Shaq, and defeated Ewing everytime. Ewing was a lesser center than Hakeem though.

Michael Jordan vs. Hakeem Olajuwon: Imagining a Bulls-Rockets NBA Finals matchup we never got to see

No, the Bulls would not have had a cakewalk to eight straight championships

www.cbssports.com

This is really good article on it. Its why I brought him up. You a tad younger than me, but we pretty much grew up the same remembrance on basketball. I remember Olajuwon being a monster, but I think two things happened. He is a very quiet guy and Shaq came after him. Well, younger and he was such a dominant force. People kind of over look him in certain aspects. But, Dream, Robinson, and Ewing were some incredible big men and the Dream was better then them. He absolutely destroyed Robinson in the playoffs. Kenny Smith would talk about how Olajuwon never really did trash talking but when Robinson won the MVP. It got him going.

I also like Steve Kerr quote on the Bulls winning 8. The pressure is too much. Steve Kerr thinks its insane to think the Bulls would have won 8 in a row. Maybe, they get the best of Houston one time but I dont see twice. Then, doesn the three peat happen or do the break up earlier do to drama and stress.

 

[Scoot26]

Michael Jordan vs. Hakeem Olajuwon: Imagining a Bulls-Rockets NBA Finals matchup we never got to see

No, the Bulls would not have had a cakewalk to eight straight championships

www.cbssports.com

This is really good article on it. Its why I brought him up. You a tad younger than me, but we pretty much grew up the same remembrance on basketball. I remember Olajuwon being a monster, but I think two things happened. He is a very quiet guy and Shaq came after him. Well, younger and he was such a dominant force. People kind of over look him in certain aspects. But, Dream, Robinson, and Ewing were some incredible big men and the Dream was better then them. He absolutely destroyed Robinson in the playoffs. Kenny Smith would talk about how Olajuwon never really did trash talking but when Robinson won the MVP. It got him going.

I also like Steve Kerr quote on the Bulls winning 8. The pressure is too much. Steve Kerr thinks its insane to think the Bulls would have won 8 in a row. Maybe, they get the best of Houston one time but I dont see twice. Then, doesn the three peat happen or do the break up earlier do to drama and stress.

94-95 is the first year I really watched basketball. I remember Hakeem's whole playoff run as a 6 seed that year and the domination of the Magic in the Finals (though I often fell asleep before the games ended). As the kids I was around were all bandwagon fans of the Magic, I wanted the Rockets to beat them so badly, and was rewarded with a sweep lol.

I also don't see the Bulls win 8 in a row, I saw may be 4 in a row before drama really exploded and other factors came into play. It is insanely hard to keep going that way year after year. LeBron did it, but switched teams in the middle of it, getting a refreshed cast. He also didn't win every year obviously.

 

[FirstTimer]

That's one what if I often wonder about... if Jordan didn't retire and they meet the Rockets in the Finals in 94.. what happens. Of course the Bulls being in the Finals for the 4th straight year likely takes a heavy toll on the Bulls, not to mention all the media shit still happening with Jordan, but ignoring that.. it would be interesting to see how that series plays out. Jordan never did face a true superstar center in the Finals, he was 1-1 vs Shaq, and defeated Ewing everytime. Ewing was a lesser center than Hakeem though.

I think that's kind of splitting hairs. Jordan faced true superstar PF's in the Finals in his last four Championships. The Bulls faced superstar centers a lot in the 90s in general, Hakeem was obviously the greatest of them all so I think it has less to do with "HOF inside player" and more to do with Hakeem.

 

[FirstTimer]

Michael Jordan vs. Hakeem Olajuwon: Imagining a Bulls-Rockets NBA Finals matchup we never got to see

No, the Bulls would not have had a cakewalk to eight straight championships

www.cbssports.com

This is really good article on it. Its why I brought him up. You a tad younger than me, but we pretty much grew up the same remembrance on basketball. I remember Olajuwon being a monster, but I think two things happened. He is a very quiet guy and Shaq came after him. Well, younger and he was such a dominant force. People kind of over look him in certain aspects. But, Dream, Robinson, and Ewing were some incredible big men and the Dream was better then them. He absolutely destroyed Robinson in the playoffs. Kenny Smith would talk about how Olajuwon never really did trash talking but when Robinson won the MVP. It got him going.

I also like Steve Kerr quote on the Bulls winning 8. The pressure is too much. Steve Kerr thinks its insane to think the Bulls would have won 8 in a row. Maybe, they get the best of Houston one time but I dont see twice. Then, doesn the three peat happen or do the break up earlier do to drama and stress.

The Bulls don't win 8 either way because they did nothing to replace Grant after he left. That 94-95 team just wasn't very good anyways. Even if Jordan stays, I don't think he wills that team past the Magic.

 

[FirstTimer]

94-95 is the first year I really watched basketball. I remember Hakeem's whole playoff run as a 6 seed that year and the domination of the Magic in the Finals (though I often fell asleep before the games ended). As the kids I was around were all bandwagon fans of the Magic, I wanted the Rockets to beat them so badly, and was rewarded with a sweep lol.

I also don't see the Bulls win 8 in a row, I saw may be 4 in a row before drama really exploded and other factors came into play. It is insanely hard to keep going that way year after year. LeBron did it, but switched teams in the middle of it, getting a refreshed cast. He also didn't win every year obviously.

If the Bulls get a 7th title they get it by stealing one during the shortened 99 season if they could convince Jordan and/or Pippen to come back and find a way to replace Rodman.

 

[FirstTimer]

They weren't alive or old enough to remember. Basketball went from a dying novelty sport to becoming the first team sport in a century to come close to Soccer as the most played sport worldwide thanks to 3 players. This is the hype era, everyone needs to be a brand because of what Jordan did. And just the same, player endorsed equipment was mostly junk. For every good Ted Williams mitt, you had 50 Jose Canseco big sticks. "tell me, you didn't pay money for this."

Sad thing is, while Magic had signature Weapons and Magic shoes, Bird never had a signature shoe. He wore whatever hot thing Converse had, from Dr Js/Pros to Cons, but not a single Larry Bird model or custom. Such a shame. Thus his brand appeal to younger or present-era observers is tiny compared to someone who pumps out a whole line of products. A whole era of people in developing nations, new to something, mass producing the *thing*, and then looking up wtf is the relevancy of said thing. Stuff like that does matter.

Larry had his own version of the "Weapon". Very famous poster and commercial to this effect.

 

[Crystallas]

Larry had his own version of the "Weapon". Very famous poster and commercial to this effect.

Where? I'm talking about a signature shoe, not an endorsement. Not the Weapon rivalry poster with Magic and Bird. Weapons came in most team colors IIRC. Something fans can go out and buy, and on the box it said Larry Bird. He's famously known for being one of the greatest athletes not to have his own signature shoe.

BTW, I love this blog. John Starks... LMAO

10 Great Athletes Who Never Were Given Their Own Signature Line of Kicks

Having your own signature sneaker is one sign you made it. Following Michael Jordan’s lead, signature shoes have been developed to enhance the popularity and scope of an athlete...

bleacherreport.com

Actually, in all fairness. I think John Starks made some kind of tear away warm-ups that players used forever. IDK if that merits a signature shoe. Guy studied male strippers for years, deserves some credit.

 

[FirstTimer]

Where? I'm talking about a signature shoe, not an endorsement. Not the Weapon rivalry poster with Magic and Bird. Weapons came in most team colors IIRC. Something fans can go out and buy, and on the box it said Larry Bird. He's famously known for being one of the greatest athletes not to have his own signature shoe.

BTW, I love this blog. John Starks... LMAO

10 Great Athletes Who Never Were Given Their Own Signature Line of Kicks

Having your own signature sneaker is one sign you made it. Following Michael Jordan’s lead, signature shoes have been developed to enhance the popularity and scope of an athlete...

bleacherreport.com

Actually, in all fairness. I think John Starks made some kind of tear away warm-ups that players used forever. IDK if that merits a signature shoe. Guy studied male strippers for years, deserves some credit.

It wasn't the Celtic teams colors. It was the Magic and Larry versions. Not every team or player had them. There was an entire campaign around them. They literally say in the commercial they made the shoes for Bird and Magic

Magic didn't even have his own shoe until like 1996 when he came back out of retirement. He had some POS LA Gear shoes and some other brand..MVP..I think. Shit shoes.

 

[Crystallas]