Larry Legend Underrated?

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Is James Harden a PG, or a SG?

Basketball reference says he played PG 1% of the time and SG 40% of the time. It also says Harden played SF 55% of the time and even played PF 5% of the time.

It's all very confusing. So confusing that it makes me think the traditional positions on the basketball court no longer matter.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

It gets even screwier when you look at Chris Paul. Did you know that in his 14 seasons there were only two when he didn't (at least, according to basketball reference) play PG 100% of the time. Yep, apparently Chris Paul was classified as a SG 49% of the time this past season. Seems odd that you would play Chris Paul out of position. That must be why OKC was only 16 games over .500.

 

[RiDLer80]

Isn't Bird pretty much universally accepted as the second best SF of all time, behind LeBron, now?

I wouldn't call him underrated.

 

[RacerX]

One of the greatest ballers of any era.

But, fuck him for one reason, and one only: it's because of guys like him that some GMs draft players like Shea McLellin or Adam Shaheen. That's right, white guys that don't look like they ever spent much time in a weight room let alone could play professional ball.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Isn't Bird pretty much universally accepted as the second best SF of all time, behind LeBron, now?

I wouldn't call him underrated.

So here's the thing: the title/premise of this thread is fucking stupid. I have never once in my 30+ years of the NBA fandom have I ever heard that Bird was underrated. However, saying that to the OP means I'll have to converse with him, and that frankly, is for the birds. You are 100% correct. Nobody not named Isiah Thomas has ever underrated Larry Bird.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

One of the greatest ballers of any era.

But, fuck him for one reason, and one only: it's because of guys like him that some GMs draft players like Shea McLellin or Adam Shaheen. That's right, white guys that don't l00k like they ever spent much time in a weight room let alone could play professional ball.

 

[SilenceS]

So here's the thing: the title/premise of this thread is fucking stupid. I have never once in my 30+ years of the NBA fandom have I ever heard that Bird was underrated. However, saying that to the OP means I'll have to converse with him, and that frankly, is for the birds. You are 100% correct. Nobody not named Isiah Thomas has ever underrated Larry Bird.

No, my premise was when people talk about all time greats. Bird plus Magic keep getting pushed down. As generations go, things get rated differently. Hence, why people think Lebron and Kobe could stand with MJ. Can they? Yes, but the older people get. People forget greatness. Look at MJ, people rarely talk about 80's or even first 3 peat MJ. They talk about the second 3 peat. I was reading boards and all time list that keep pushing Bird down because of new generation. Which, to an extent, is possible but I dont see anyone in the league besides Lebron and Durant that could stand against Bird. So, you can not converse with me but that what makes your response ignorant even though you have good points in the thread. So, you can either be a real dude and talk sports or be the the same ol dude that has an issue. Choice is yours and frankly, I wont care. But, solid points on bball.

 

[SilenceS]

Isn't Bird pretty much universally accepted as the second best SF of all time, behind LeBron, now?

I wouldn't call him underrated.

Whole spectrum, who is really a SF now? Is Lebron even considered one? Lebron has played PF(Point Forward) more in his career than anything.

 

[Scoot26]

Whole spectrum, who is really a SF now? Is Lebron even considered one? Lebron has played PF(Point Forward) more in his career than anything.

LeBron is all the positions:

 

[SilenceS]

LeBron is all the positions:
View attachment 5487

I dont see C. What a schlub!

 

[FirstTimer]

Never knew how Bird initially hurt his back. Always assumed it was playing in the late 80s when he started missing time due to his back. Says he hurt his back redoing the gravel on his moms driveway in 1985. Can you imagine an NBA player do his own gravel work today? lol. So Bird may have still been messed up, but with Bias, he could have also played less games/minutes overall. The team would rely on him less in the regular season. Of course those guys didn't have today's mentality of rest, so perhaps nothing changes at all as Bird & McHale demand to keep their regular minutes and playing through injuries.

I tend to lean more that way

 

[FirstTimer]

No, my premise was when people talk about all time greats. Bird plus Magic keep getting pushed down. As generations go, things get rated differently. Hence, why people think Lebron and Kobe could stand with MJ. Can they? Yes, but the older people get. People forget greatness. Look at MJ, people rarely talk about 80's or even first 3 peat MJ. They talk about the second 3 peat. I was reading boards and all time list that keep pushing Bird down because of new generation. Which, to an extent, is possible but I dont see anyone in the league besides Lebron and Durant that could stand against Bird. So, you can not converse with me but that what makes your response ignorant even though you have good points in the thread. So, you can either be a real dude and talk sports or be the the same ol dude that has an issue. Choice is yours and frankly, I wont care. But, solid points on bball.

I don't agree with the premise because I still see people putting Bird and Magic in the Top 5-10 range of players all time and only really see guys like Duncan, Kobe, and Lebron "bumping them down"...which in some ways is defensible. Does that mean that they are now underrated? I don't think so.

 

[SilenceS]

I don't agree with the premise because I still see people putting Bird and Magic in the Top 5-10 range of players all time and only really see guys like Duncan, Kobe, and Lebron "bumping them down"...which in some ways is defensible. Does that mean that they are now underrated? I don't think so.

Thats fine. It was a question to get some banter.

I read some articles on it as well. So, got me curious on other peoples thoughts. Overtime people forget about players. Im 34 and really only saw the end of Birds career. Its great we can go back and watch the old games.

 

[FirstTimer]

Thats fine. It was a question to get some banter.

I read some articles on it as well. So, got me curious on other peoples thoughts. Overtime people forget about players. Im 34 and really only saw the end of Birds career. Its great we can go back and watch the old games.

I get ya. Most times I hate the "overrated/underrated" debate because it happens without people defining the terms. Where are people currently rating Bird/Magic? Where do you think they should be? What's the "list" before and after them? The convos many times lack any kind of context and just have people shouting right after the initial question is asked.

 

[ijustposthere]

Thats fine. It was a question to get some banter.

I read some articles on it as well. So, got me curious on other peoples thoughts. Overtime people forget about players. Im 34 and really only saw the end of Birds career. Its great we can go back and watch the old games.

People now think that era was weak and unskilled as well, which I find pretty odd.

 

[SilenceS]

People now think that era was weak and unskilled as well, which I find pretty odd.

Very true. When I talk to some friends, they wont even give consideration to the past cause they say athletes are better now. It is true, but skill always plays. I once talked to some guys here about Walt "Clyde: Frazier. Always heard he was good but his stats never jumped out. But, then I watch some game of his and man, the guy could play and no doubt would have been great in any era.

I also watched Open Court with Kevin McHale and he was talking about Draymond Green. He wasnt down talking him, but he was like I wish I had someone like him guard me. He cant grow enough to guard me. Then, watching and reading about McHale his smarts and footwork were tremendous and add to a 7 foot frame. No way Draymond would control him.

Also, read another article about Olajuwon and how Jordan thought he was the hardest team to face because he was such a force the Bulls couldnt handle. The Dream even took Rodman to the woodshed before he came to the Bulls.

Its all interesting and fascinating comparing eras.

But, remember Bird didnt dribble the ball up the court so he relied on his guards.

 

[ijustposthere]

I feel like Hakeem isn't talked about enough. Dude was a monster. I love when Rodman blasts LeBron lol. Not that I don't think LeBron is great, I just think he's kind of a bitch on the court. Seems like a real good hearted dude though.

 

[Scoot26]

People now think that era was weak and unskilled as well, which I find pretty odd.

Wait, people think the 1980s is a weak era now?

 

[Scoot26]

I feel like Hakeem isn't talked about enough. Dude was a monster. I love when Rodman blasts LeBron lol. Not that I don't think LeBron is great, I just think he's kind of a bitch on the court. Seems like a real good hearted dude though.

I think LeBron acts the way he does due to the rules of the game. He's smart, he's not going to deck a guy a risk a 20 game suspension.

It's not like the 1980s where you could literally punch a guy and maybe only get a technical (depending on the punch). If you were suspended then, it was small. It wasn't until the Heat and Knicks started brawling all the time that suspensions became more serious and consequential. And when you had Ron Artest and the Malice at the Palace in 2004, and then Carmelo Anthony's sucker punch at the Garden in 2006, you had two very big changing events when it came to fighting and discipline in the NBA. Honestly the Palace fight was something completely unseen before and the NBA knew you had to have drastic actions. The fact Ron Artest is mentally insane and didn't even understand what he had done afterwards, you had to punish the crap out of him.

Carmelo's sucker punch in 2006 landed him a 15 game suspension, while Nate Rob and JR Smith ended up fighting spilling into the crowd and got 10 game suspensions.

Meanwhile go back to the 1994 playoffs between the Bulls and Knicks and you had a fight spill into the crowd literally in front of the Commissioner.. you had a one game suspension... granted suspensions are different in the playoffs, but I feel like today they'd be suspended the rest of the series and into the next.

But that's just fighting. There have been other rule changes that ease things up on defense, more things are a foul. Add in there's been a lot of science done on recovery, extending your shelf life, and such that those are things LeBron is going for. I also don't think LeBron has ever had Jordan's mentality of everything is a competition and he lacks that drive Jordan had. I think he just likes playing basketball, uses his talents to the best of his ability, and is very intelligent about it. Those three things he has in common with Jordan, but he doesn't have that same drive Jordan has. And he doesn't have the pissed off motivation of things said about him in the media, or by other people.

 

[Scoot26]

Also, read another article about Olajuwon and how Jordan thought he was the hardest team to face because he was such a force the Bulls couldnt handle. The Dream even took Rodman to the woodshed before he came to the Bulls.

That's one what if I often wonder about... if Jordan didn't retire and they meet the Rockets in the Finals in 94.. what happens. Of course the Bulls being in the Finals for the 4th straight year likely takes a heavy toll on the Bulls, not to mention all the media shit still happening with Jordan, but ignoring that.. it would be interesting to see how that series plays out. Jordan never did face a true superstar center in the Finals, he was 1-1 vs Shaq, and defeated Ewing everytime. Ewing was a lesser center than Hakeem though.