Learning From Mitch

CHIBEAR

Well-known member
773
578
68
Situationally you are not going to consult a staff that is gone next year. For right or wrong.
Also, the Watson pick isn't looking great at this point either.

and yet Pace has basically done a complete 180 degree turn from what he was doing when he first year. He basically acted as though he and his scouting team knew everything without actually listening to the actual coaches and everything he has done since that 2017 debacle is showing how he knows that was a colossal screw up.
 

Brandon Marshall

Active member
562
353
38
If you were Pace would you have consulted with Fox and a Hobbit on who the next QB was going to be? Pace knew they were gone next year.
My problem with this is we should have then canned Fox already. Knowing we were drafting a position as important as QB, we should have had the next head coach in already so that he was on the same page. I am not sure Mitch would have been Nagy's guy.
 

modo

CCS Donator
Donator
23,907
17,890
105
and yet Pace has basically done a complete 180 degree turn from what he was doing when he first year. He basically acted as though he and his scouting team knew everything without actually listening to the actual coaches and everything he has done since that 2017 debacle is showing how he knows that was a colossal screw up.
I don't necessarily think it was a philosophical 180...

He may have always wanted to consider his staff's ideas....in fact he trusted Fox's need on a DE when he choose Floyd. I think Pace knew that Fox was done and didn't want to rely on him for a future QB choice
 

modo

CCS Donator
Donator
23,907
17,890
105
My problem with this is we should have then canned Fox already. Knowing we were drafting a position as important as QB, we should have had the next head coach in already so that he was on the same page. I am not sure Mitch would have been Nagy's guy.
I don't necessarily disagree, but we don't know if the Bears ownership allowed Fox to be canned at that point.
 

MikeDitkaPolishSausage

Well-known member
3,966
2,208
70
You answered your own question.

Again, i've said it was worth it 1000 times. Doesn't mean they didn't overpay. There's a system for a reason.
Why does a system have to tell you if you overpaid or not? I don’t know the answer to this question but How often do trades equal out to be the same point value? My guess would be, more trades than not are “overpaid” according to the system.
 

MikeDitkaPolishSausage

Well-known member
3,966
2,208
70
I prefer giving up their 1st next year to giving up the 2nd this year, which would have been the alternative and meant no Tevin Jenkins right now.
Couldn’t agree more. Gaining Fields and Jenkins is more valuable than what would have been our 1st rounder next year.
 

Anytime23

Boding Well
Donator
18,251
12,823
85
Why does a system have to tell you if you overpaid or not? I don’t know the answer to this question but How often do trades equal out to be the same point value? My guess would be, more trades than not are “overpaid” according to the system.
There is a value to each pick. I think its pretty rare that teams get the same value with a trade. I think teams moving up usually sacrifice value for the player they want.
 

MikeDitkaPolishSausage

Well-known member
3,966
2,208
70
There is a value to each pick. I think its pretty rare that teams get the same value with a trade. I think teams moving up usually sacrifice value for the player they want.
That’s my point on why the point system is flawed when talking about “overpaying” for a draft pick. Point wise, yes Pace gave up more than the system called for. But giving up a pointless 6th rounder in 2021 draft, 1st and 4th in 2022 draft was actually a great deal. That’s why I don’t understand why people are saying Pace overpaid.
 

Anytime23

Boding Well
Donator
18,251
12,823
85
That’s my point on why the point system is flawed when talking about “overpaying” for a draft pick. Point wise, yes Pace gave up more than the system called for. But giving up a pointless 6th rounder in 2021 draft, 1st and 4th in 2022 draft was actually a great deal. That’s why I don’t understand why people are saying Pace overpaid.
Who cares

Most people seem to agree it was worth it.
 

HearshotKDS

Well-known member
2,339
1,890
70
I think perhaps just as important is Pace drafted 2 OTs in the first 5 rounds. Before this draft he had never taken an OT before the 6th round. Its a lot easier to find decent budget TEs, WRs, iLBs, DL, RBs in FA - decent budget tackles basically dont exist. Outside of a very rare reclaimation project that pans out, the only way to get a good OT on an affordable tackle is to draft them.
 

dentfan

No gods! No Masters!
1,539
837
70
That’s my point on why the point system is flawed when talking about “overpaying” for a draft pick. Point wise, yes Pace gave up more than the system called for. But giving up a pointless 6th rounder in 2021 draft, 1st and 4th in 2022 draft was actually a great deal. That’s why I don’t understand why people are saying Pace overpaid.
I have no idea where you're seeing anybody saying Pace overpaid as if it were a negative. It's more like a fact akin to I'm typing on a keyboard and Fuck Green Bay.

I think that most people agree Pace paid a round or something more than he should have to keep it square, but, though I do agree with the metric that measured the value, I also think of it as a QB tax. I think Denver was asking for picks 1-3 for this year, plus next year's and a late round pick, maybe more. Pace said to fuck off.

As far as Jenkins goes, Pace getting the 5th rounder back and an OT? An OT that, as of right now, is projected to play LT? So, he did overpay a bit. Again, I think it's a round worth of a pick.

I'm not a pick value guy. There are some guys on this board that are very good at it, but I read a lot of articles and that's my understanding.

So, to sum up for the tl;dr crowd, Pace did overpay in terms of absolute value as a draft capital but not in terms of relative value vis a vis position. Anybody that is slamming the Justin Fields pick because of who we might be able to draft next year, especially in light of the the fact that we also got Jenkins, is a fucking idiot. Treat them like Green Bay. Fuck Green Bay!
 

cdubz11

Member
86
29
12
Mitch was just completely overwhelmed and didn't handle criticism well and lost all confidence. Then stopped trying to run after got hurt. Then was just a complete disaster. I think he'll end up similar to Tannehill though. Figure it out in a few yrs after sitting on bench, watching film, maturing, slowing game down.
 

bearsfan1977

Well-known member
1,321
991
70
If Fields turns out to be a bona fide franchise QB for the next 15 years with the Bears, no one would care if they gave 3 1sts, 3 2nds to make that happen.

If he is a legit star at QB, throw that trade value chart shit right out the window.
 

Top