Leno. HE GONE

[Mdbearz]

Do we have anyone on the roster or available in FA that would overcome the fact that the Bears spent a 2nd and 3rd rounder on Jenkins.

If an organization spends that much draft capital on a guy they have conviction and will in the first year, do everything possible to prove they were right.

My opinion is he will start, and I expect that cutting Leno makes it easier for them to justify letting him start at LT. Additionally, I think they want Ifedi to start at RT, and I'm not sure he is even an option for the LT position.

No one on the roster right now is an automatic for the LT position, and if they bring in a FA LT, then I believe that Jenkins will then be penciled in at RT and Ifedi will become the swing Tackle. The more I think about that the more I like it.

What I don't think will happen is that he ends up inside, unless there is and injury.

 

[jsu34]

Teven Jenkins is a tackle. He can and will play left or right. I suspect he will play left tackle. It would be the other draftee, Borom, who might be kicked inside to G, where he has experience.

Again, Jenkins isn't some scrub they threw away picks to get. I believe only Sewell is rated better and we know Sewell is starting day 1.

My concern is who backs him up is a possible problem.

 

[jsu34]

Technically he was playing out of position. Apparently they had an injury and the back up was really only suited to play LT, so I look at it as a plus that he played RT last season.

 

[Luke]

Technically he was playing out of position. Apparently they had an injury and the back up was really only suited to play LT, so I look at it as a plus that he played RT last season.

btw, Jake Springfield is now 2nd string RT according to the 2021 Cowboy depth chart.

He started 10 games at right tackle and three at left tackle as a sophomore in 2018 and followed by opening nine contests at right tackle and three at left tackle as a junior in 2019. It's my understanding that Oklahoma State moved him to left tackle last spring and that's where he practiced the entire offseason. He then started the Cowboys' opener against Tulsa at left tackle, but Oklahoma State lost starting right tackle Hunter Anthony to an injury in the game. Because Jenkins' backup, Jake Springfield, is a natural left tackle, he was inserted at that position with Jenkins moving to right tackle.

 

[dabears70]

Mike Garafolo

@MikeGarafolo
Former #Bears LT Charles Leno Jr. will be visiting the Washington Football Team next week, source says. They drafted Sam Cosmi in the second round but he needs some seasoning. Leno could step right in on a veteran offensive line.

 

[Nelly]

Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
Former #Bears LT Charles Leno Jr. will be visiting the Washington Football Team next week, source says. They drafted Sam Cosmi in the second round but he needs some seasoning. Leno could step right in on a veteran offensive line.

Check out the blurb from Rotoworld:

Still trying to replace Trent Williams one year after the fact, the Football Team used a second-round pick on Sam Cosmi. Leno would offer an experienced alternative if the No. 51 overall pick is deemed unready. The Football Team is Leno's first scheduled visit after he was surprisingly cut by the Bears on Monday.

Surprisingly cut? Nope, not really. I think the people who talk about the league don't understand that Leno isn't good.

 

[WindyCity]

My comment has nothing to do with the style of his play.

It does. No one thinks he is soft because he gets hurt a lot and doesn’t play through it.

They think he is soft because if you look up finesse in the dictionary he is there getting steam rolled by a blitzing safety.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

It does. No one thinks he is soft because he gets hurt a lot and doesn’t play through it.

They think he is soft because if you look up finesse in the dictionary he is there getting steam rolled by a blitzing safety.

Since when did you become an expert on what I say?

 

[remydat]

Let's put the notion that "short-arms on avg will mean poorer performance" to the test. And then in the second quoted material below if it matters with LT in particular.

But first let's see if Teven even has "shorter arms", and if that matters in the NFL with Tackles in general. The medium arm length of the top 16 PFF rated tackles in 2020 was 34.08. Jenkins measured 33 3/8 inches at the EXOS pro day. I'm not going to worry about less than an inch on this.



There was no positive correlation between arm length and performance. Now looking at if LT arm length makes a difference...

1. I did not say short arms means poor performance. I said that is the issue because some do not like guys with short arms. That does not mean they are right but that is the issue.

2. I also highlighted that he has issues with athleticism. Your analysis doesn't tell us much because someone with shorter arms but who is also athletic may be able to overcome the former with the latter. The issue is Jenkins has both shorter arms and less athleticism. That does not mean he will fail. That is simply the concern that some express.

3. I don't think the argument is that arm size is correlated with performance at least not in the way you are thinking. The PFF analysis is showing that people with shorter arms can be good or bad. People with longer arms can be good or bad. If you look at the graph there are 10 LTs with negative grades whose arms are under 34 and 12 with positive grades. So that is 10 out of 22 or 45.5% with negative grades. By contrast you have 8 LTs with arms over 34 inches with negative grades and 18 with positive grades. So that is 8 out of 26 with negative grades or 30.7%. Ergo you are more likely to have a negative grade if your arms are below 34 inches than if they are more than 34 inches. However you can still be good or bad regardless of your arm length.

I didn't do the count of the scatter plot for RT but just eyeballing it, it looks like the effect will be less dramatic.

 

[Zion]

Leno was a scrub; I'm glad Pace finally realized he needs to shore up the Oline to help his QBs. Only took him 3 years.

 

[Sculpt]

3. I don't think the argument is that arm size is correlated with performance at least not in the way you are thinking. The PFF analysis is showing that people with shorter arms can be good or bad. People with longer arms can be good or bad. If you look at the graph there are 10 LTs with negative grades whose arms are under 34 and 12 with positive grades. So that is 10 out of 22 or 45.5% with negative grades. By contrast you have 8 LTs with arms over 34 inches with negative grades and 18 with positive grades. So that is 8 out of 26 with negative grades or 30.7%. Ergo you are more likely to have a negative grade if your arms are below 34 inches than if they are more than 34 inches. However you can still be good or bad regardless of your arm length.

I didn't do the count of the scatter plot for RT but just eyeballing it, it looks like the effect will be less dramatic.

It appears as though you have included all four plot points that are on the PFF zero line in the positive grades (for LT 34 and over). Specifically, there are two dead center, and the other two: one possibly slightly higher than zero and the other equally slightly lower than zero. Let them cancel each other out.

LT under 34	players	total players	percent
Positive	12	22	54.55%

LT 34 and over	players	total players	percent
Positive	14	22	63.64%

The [LTs 34" and Over] group had 9.09% more positive grades than the [LTs Less than 34"] for PFF in 2020. Not saying you said the opposite... but I don't think +9% is a significant enough percentage to count arm length as one of top factors in assessing future success in the NFL (for use in drafting LTs). Maybe a tiebreaker, sure.

2. I also highlighted that he has issues with athleticism. Your analysis doesn't tell us much because someone with shorter arms but who is also athletic may be able to overcome the former with the latter. The issue is Jenkins has both shorter arms and less athleticism. That does not mean he will fail. That is simply the concern that some express.

The first two scouting reports I see are:

1. "Jenkins' athleticism and lack of overall range may create questions about his potential at offensive tackle and there will be some teams who grade him as a guard as a result."

2. "Positives: Athletic tackle prospect with potential on both the left and right side. Sets with a wide base, bends his knees, and is quick with his hands. Stays square, shows strength, and easily turns defenders from the action. Nicely adjusts to oncoming opponents. Fires out to the second level, gets fits on linebackers and seals them from the action. Smooth pulling across the line of scrimmage and effective blocking in motion. Keeps his feet moving, displays solid lateral blocking range, and anchors in pass protection. Strong enough to move opponents off the line run blocking."

You know, so... if anyone wants to count up the athletic reports, be my guest, but based on the tape I saw, the dude looked relatively athletic to me. Regardless, we'll both hope he's nimble and quick enough to play LT because it looks like he's going to compete to start.

 

[remydat]

It appears as though you have included all four plot points that are on the PFF zero line in the positive grades (for LT 34 and over). Specifically, there are two dead center, and the other two: one possibly slightly higher than zero and the other equally slightly lower than zero. Let them cancel each other out.

LT under 34	players	total players	percent
Positive	12	22	54.55%

LT 34 and over	players	total players	percent
Positive	14	22	63.64%

The [LTs 34" and Over] group had 9.09% more positive grades than the [LTs Less than 34"] for PFF in 2020. Not saying you said the opposite... but I don't think +9% is a significant enough percentage to count arm length as one of top factors in assessing future success in the NFL (for use in drafting LTs). Maybe a tiebreaker, sure.

The first two scouting reports I see are:

1. "Jenkins' athleticism and lack of overall range may create questions about his potential at offensive tackle and there will be some teams who grade him as a guard as a result."

2. "Positives: Athletic tackle prospect with potential on both the left and right side. Sets with a wide base, bends his knees, and is quick with his hands. Stays square, shows strength, and easily turns defenders from the action. Nicely adjusts to oncoming opponents. Fires out to the second level, gets fits on linebackers and seals them from the action. Smooth pulling across the line of scrimmage and effective blocking in motion. Keeps his feet moving, displays solid lateral blocking range, and anchors in pass protection. Strong enough to move opponents off the line run blocking."

You know, so... if anyone wants to count up the athletic reports, be my guest, but based on the tape I saw, the dude looked relatively athletic to me. Regardless, we'll both hope he's nimble and quick enough to play LT because it looks like he's going to compete to start.

The red line is there for a reason. Those 4 are above the red line so I put them in the positive camp. If you are going to start changing things to squeeze things into your analysis then there is a plot point halfway between 32-33 that is still touching the red line so removing that gives you 11 of 22 not 12 of 22 which is 50%. So it feels like just looking for stuff to remove that suits the narrative you want to tell. If it makes you feel better lets change from positive to average or better. Those 4 guys were clearly average or better. It is not my fault there were not as many guys in the under 34 data that hit that line.

As for athleticism, I am not claiming all the reports said he was unathletic. I was expressing what people think are his issues and the fact there are mixed reports on his athleticism does in fact mean it is considered an issue. Once again I am not claiming those issues will in fact end up holding true in the NFL but they are the knocks on him period. Time will tell if they end up being true or not.

 

[Chicagosports89]

It appears as though you have included all four plot points that are on the PFF zero line in the positive grades (for LT 34 and over). Specifically, there are two dead center, and the other two: one possibly slightly higher than zero and the other equally slightly lower than zero. Let them cancel each other out.

LT under 34	players	total players	percent
Positive	12	22	54.55%

LT 34 and over	players	total players	percent
Positive	14	22	63.64%

The [LTs 34" and Over] group had 9.09% more positive grades than the [LTs Less than 34"] for PFF in 2020. Not saying you said the opposite... but I don't think +9% is a significant enough percentage to count arm length as one of top factors in assessing future success in the NFL (for use in drafting LTs). Maybe a tiebreaker, sure.

The first two scouting reports I see are:

1. "Jenkins' athleticism and lack of overall range may create questions about his potential at offensive tackle and there will be some teams who grade him as a guard as a result."

2. "Positives: Athletic tackle prospect with potential on both the left and right side. Sets with a wide base, bends his knees, and is quick with his hands. Stays square, shows strength, and easily turns defenders from the action. Nicely adjusts to oncoming opponents. Fires out to the second level, gets fits on linebackers and seals them from the action. Smooth pulling across the line of scrimmage and effective blocking in motion. Keeps his feet moving, displays solid lateral blocking range, and anchors in pass protection. Strong enough to move opponents off the line run blocking."

You know, so... if anyone wants to count up the athletic reports, be my guest, but based on the tape I saw, the dude looked relatively athletic to me. Regardless, we'll both hope he's nimble and quick enough to play LT because it looks like he's going to compete to start.

It seems like evaluators really struggle with what they are looking at with offensive lineman and aren't sure how to tell whether or not they are athletic. I think if it's difficult to tell, intelligence would be a good differentiating factor. Being smart can help neutralize borderline poor athleticism.

 

[Bust]

Hopefully the new LT is durable as well. Say what you will about Leno but the dude was durable, Never missed a game last 5+ years.

 

[Sculpt]

The red line is there for a reason. Those 4 are above the red line so I put them in the positive camp. If you are going to start changing things to squeeze things into your analysis then there is a plot point halfway between 32-33 that is still touching the red line so removing that gives you 11 of 22 not 12 of 22 which is 50%. So it feels like just looking for stuff to remove that suits the narrative you want to tell. If it makes you feel better lets change from positive to average or better. Those 4 guys were clearly average or better. It is not my fault there were not as many guys in the under 34 data that hit that line.

As for athleticism, I am not claiming all the reports said he was unathletic. I was expressing what people think are his issues and the fact there are mixed reports on his athleticism does in fact mean it is considered an issue. Once again I am not claiming those issues will in fact end up holding true in the NFL but they are the knocks on him period. Time will tell if they end up being true or not.

Oh, I thought you knew... that's my fault, I didn't give you the link to see the full article. The Red Line is the average for each arm length, to demonstrate the trend; it's not the Zero Line for the Positive/Negative PFF Grade. The Zero Line is the zero line. Does Arm Length Affect OT Play? | PFF News & Analysis | PFF

Of the red line trend the author wrote, "With a linear fit, we actually see a negative correlation, where guys with longer arms perform worse in general. But as you can see from the R-squared value on the chart (1.00 is perfect, 0 means there is no correlation), the fit is pretty terrible, so there’s essentially no direct correlation between arm length and performance."

 

[Sculpt]

It seems like evaluators really struggle with what they are looking at with offensive lineman and aren't sure how to tell whether or not they are athletic. I think if it's difficult to tell, intelligence would be a good differentiating factor. Being smart can help neutralize borderline poor athleticism.

Yep, quick, dynamic, strategic thinkers are going to be able to make the most of their abilities.

 

[remydat]

Oh, I thought you knew... that's my fault, I didn't give you the link to see the full article. The Red Line is the average for each arm length, to demonstrate the trend; it's not the Zero Line for the Positive/Negative PFF Grade. The Zero Line is the zero line. Does Arm Length Affect OT Play? | PFF News & Analysis | PFF

Of the red line trend the author wrote, "With a linear fit, we actually see a negative correlation, where guys with longer arms perform worse in general. But as you can see from the R-squared value on the chart (1.00 is perfect, 0 means there is no correlation), the fit is pretty terrible, so there’s essentially no direct correlation between arm length and performance."

Yeah but the red line for Left Tackles is pretty much running across the 0 line for PFF grade. The 4 dots in question are still at the zero line basically. It is just the case that there are 4 of them above 34 but only 1 of them below 34 inches. The only reason to remove them is if you want to make the below 34 inches numbers look better. Just to be clear, I did not count the one that was at 35.25 inches as average/positive because that was is below the 0 and red line mostly. The 4 I am referring to are at 34.25, 34.5, 35, and 35.5 respectively.

 

[Adipost]

Check out the blurb from Rotoworld:


Surprisingly cut? Nope, not really. I think the people who talk about the league don't understand that Leno isn't good.

Prepare to be shocked at how much money Leno garners in free agency.

 

[bearsfan1977]

Hopefully the new LT is durable as well. Say what you will about Leno but the dude was durable, Never missed a game last 5+ years.

No surprise he was durable. He rarely blocked anybody.

 

[Toast88]

“This guy might end up being really good, but there are legitimate reasons to not necessarily expect him to just come in and dominate right off the bat at left tackle.”

CCS: